All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder series discussion (spoilers)

Zombipanda said:
I still need to explain to you guys why this is a good book.
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You need to explain this to me? Or do I need to explain this to you?

ASB&RTWBW is pretty much damn near the greatest comic ever written and drawn because a.) Frank Miller writes it and B.) Jim Lee draws it and C.) because.

Because, because, because!

Because of the wonderful things it does... for the Batman character. As well as Robin and Black Canary and Green Lantern and Superman. This is the Batman I've been dreaming of. A crazy Batman who wants to kick *** and not even take a few minutes to take names. He wants to paint everything yellow just to make Hal Jordan feel stupid. I agree with that.

If the color yellow makes Hal Jordan turn into El Pusso Numero, I'm down with that, because I like Bruce Wayne a lot more than I like Hal Jordan... and I LIKE Hal Jordan.

This is pretty much the greatest Batman comic since 1986 and if you disagree, then may I suggest some kid-friendly comics? Marvel Adventures, for an example?

ASB&RTBW: RULES!
 
DIrishB said:
Not I. Its not great, but its a fun read, and does make sense given the Batman we've seen in Miller's TDK Universe.

Miller's Batman is basically bat-**** crazy. He's had his ups and his downs, but he's always been off his rocker. It was evident in his Year One, it became obvious in Spawn/Batman, and he really drove the nail home with All Star B&R. By TDK Returns, early in the story he's mellowed due to retirement and almost achieved normalcy...but thats not for Bruce, and the normal life eats at him. TDK Strikes Again shows the older, matured Bruce, but hints at his insanity through the plot itself (him commanding a rebellious group of kids against an Empirical Government).

Miller's Batman is crazy, and if you don't understand that and want him to act more like the regular DC universe Bats, you're missing the point.

I've always preferred TDK Universe Batman to his regular univese counterpart, mainly because personally TDK Batman is the more realistic portrayal. Miller's Batman is more human, frail, and mortal. Oh, and crazy.

To me, he's a more interesting character.




Speaking of which, is this title still horribly delayed? Doing some checking...ah, here we go:

#10 (7/16/08)
#11 (8/27/08)
#12 (8/27/08???...more likely 9/24/08)

So #10 out end of July, #11 end of August, and according to the DC website #12 will be released the same day as #11. I doubt this and assume its a mistake, and if Miller and Lee can keep up the schedule it should be out 9/24/08.



Also, what ever happened to the "Holy Terror, Batman!"/"Batman vs. Al-Qaeda" graphic novel Miller was working on? Anyone heard anything new about that?
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There's nothing essentially wrong with a 'crazy Batman'. TDK is one of my favourite Batman stories ever because of how effective Batman's insanity is. Personally, I do prefer Batman as a hero rather than a vigilante, who walks a very thin line between the two, but nevertheless exists to prove that one man can make a difference and that a city can be saved as well as the guilt that haunts someone's soul. But this haunted, corrupted version of the character also works quite well and was my favourite for many years.

I always liked in TDK how Bruce seemed to be 'possessed' by Batman and I liked how Miller hinted at this in Year One and they even threw in a short scene in Batman Begins when Alfred is watching the Batmobile chase on the news.

ASB&R isn't just 'crazy Batman'. That alone, I could deal with and probably enjoy to a great degree. No, ASB&R is flat-out lampooning the 'dark version' of Batman we've enjoyed for the last thirty years and it just sucks all of the fun out of Miller's other great Bat-works by suggesting that people always took the psychology of this (in his mind) Chuck Norris-esque character too seriously, when we really should have just been there for the gawdamm action, violence and babes.

The reason All-Star Batman is bad is not because Batman is crazy in the stories. The reason it is bad is because Frank Miller is crazy in real life.
 
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Willverine said:
You need to explain this to me? Or do I need to explain this to you?

ASB&RTWBW is pretty much damn near the greatest comic ever written and drawn because a.) Frank Miller writes it and B.) Jim Lee draws it and C.) because.

Because, because, because!

Because of the wonderful things it does... for the Batman character. As well as Robin and Black Canary and Green Lantern and Superman. This is the Batman I've been dreaming of. A crazy Batman who wants to kick *** and not even take a few minutes to take names. He wants to paint everything yellow just to make Hal Jordan feel stupid. I agree with that.

If the color yellow makes Hal Jordan turn into El Pusso Numero, I'm down with that, because I like Bruce Wayne a lot more than I like Hal Jordan... and I LIKE Hal Jordan. Don't get me wrong.

This is pretty much the greatest Batman comic since 1986 and if you disagree, then may I suggest some kid-friendly comics? Marvel Adventures, for an example?

ASB&RTBW: RULES!
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I agree with you. Y'know, except for it being the best Batman comic since '86. The best Batman comic since '86 is now Morrison's run. hands down. I'm just going to explain it in a way these pussified philistines can understand.

No, if I were going to explain it to you, it would just be a long string of censored expletives.... and we'd both understand.

You may see it after I get drunk tonight.
 
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Gothamite said:
There's nothing essentially wrong with a 'crazy Batman'. TDK is one of my favourite Batman stories ever because of how effective Batman's insanity is. Personally, I do prefer Batman as a hero rather than a vigilante, who walks a very thin line between the two, but nevertheless exists to prove that one man can make a difference and that a city can be saved as well as the guilt that haunts someone's soul. But this haunted, corrupted version of the character also works quite well and was my favourite for many years.

I always liked in TDK how Bruce seemed to be 'possessed' by Batman and I liked how Miller hinted at this in Year One and they even threw in a short scene in Batman Begins when Alfred is watching the Batmobile chase on the news.

ASB&R isn't just 'crazy Batman'. That alone, I could deal with and probably enjoy to a great degree. No, ASB&R is flat-out lampooning the 'dark version' of Batman we've enjoyed for the last thirty years and it just sucks all of the fun out of Miller's other great Bat-works by suggesting that people always took the psychology of this (in his mind) Chuck Norris-esque character too seriously, when we really should have just been there for the gawdamm action, violence and babes.

The reason All-Star Batman is bad is not because Batman is crazy in the stories. The reason it is bad is because Frank Miller is crazy in real life.
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Wonderful points, and as for Miller being crazy in real-life, he's crazy like a fox. The guy's transformed a great comic writing/artist career into directing big-budget movies. He seems to be doing pretty well, if you ask me.

I like ASB&R. I completely understand people's qualms about it. I hated the first several issues, and gave up reading it until the most recent came out, but then caught up and enjoyed the run as a whole.

I don't need to give an adjective-laced diatribe on why I think its good. I don't necessarily in terms of a literary critique. As a serialized, pulp story involving Batman (whatever Miller's other intentions with the series are), I'm enjoying it immensly. I'm also enjoying it in the sense of it telling another chapter in TDK Universe, and setting up events in TDK Returns.
 
The first hardcover collection is out, which collects all 9 issues. I picked it up and read it; I had stopped reading after the 3rd issue because with the delays as bad as they were I thought it would be better to just wait until the first trade was out.

I read it, and loved it. It's insane.

My only complaint is the "******* Batman" schtick gets old real fast, but I loves me some crazy Batman.

This is a guy who painted his entire safehouse yellow just to **** with Green Lantern. And then he offered him lemonade. Just to mock him.

That is awesome.
 
E said:
The first hardcover collection is out, which collects all 9 issues. I picked it up and read it; I had stopped reading after the 3rd issue because with the delays as bad as they were I thought it would be better to just wait until the first trade was out.

I read it, and loved it. It's insane.

My only complaint is the "******* Batman" schtick gets old real fast, but I loves me some crazy Batman.

This is a guy who painted his entire safehouse yellow just to **** with Green Lantern. And then he offered him lemonade. Just to mock him.

That is awesome.
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Exactly. The delays suck, but I really am going to look forward to reading each issue. And I love Lee's artwork on the title. He just might be my favorite Batman artist. I never read Hush, so I wasn't really exposed to his artwork with the character. Poring over it in the Hardcover (I just picked it up last week) was a breath of fresh air in a grim and gritty world. Detailed, exact, and the perfect balance of realism and comic book over-the-top-ness (<--------Does that work as a word?).
 
So in terms of shipping, #10 will be out on Aug 27th (assuming no more last minute delays). And more issues in Sept or Oct...I know Miller's working on the Spirit movie, but I remember Jim Lee had said something about already having scripts for through #12...perhaps they're just trying to stretch it out until Miller finishes work on The Spirit?

Speaking of which, after The Spirit, what else does Miller reportedly have on his plate that could further lead to delays on this book? Let's see:

The Spirit (Film - in production)
Sin City 2 (Film - TBD)
All-Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder (Comic Series - in production since 2005)
Holy Terror, Batman! (Graphic Novel - in production since 2006, recently said to no longer have anything to do with Batman)

I know there was at least talk of one more movie possibly going into production either before or after Sin City 2.

It looks like we'll probably have to get used to only getting 2-3 issues of All Star a year (that might be a generous estimate).
 
DIrishB said:
, what else does Miller reportedly have on his plate that could further lead to delays on this book?
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I believe he was also writing new material for Sin City. a prequel story about how hartigan got his scar (well hopefully that's more an easter egg than the main thread of the story) and one about nancy after the yellow bastard story.

Not sure if that's gonna be done as comics first or come out as a GN the same time as Sin City 2 or after....
 
DIrishB said:
Does Miller have some raging heroin addiction I don't know about? Besides, you can't pay the bills if you're not completing your work, right?
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Not if they are sneaky enough to be paid in advance.


And than when they finally complete get the royalties.
 
So, I decided to read all of the issues of ASBARTBW.

It's freaking awesome. I want more!
 
Doublehex said:
So, I decided to read all of the issues of ASBARTBW.

It's freaking awesome. I want more!
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Heh...get ready to wait...A LONG TIME.

You thought the delays on Ultimates 1 & 2 were bad? Heh, Millar and Hitch have nothing on Miller.

#10 comes out August 27 (unless its delayed again), and after that I'm almost positive we won't see a new issue of ASB&R probably next spring, maybe even summer.

If Jim Lee was right when he said the plans were to run the series between 18-22 issues, we'll be waiting until after the Apocalypse for the ending of this tale.
 
DIrishB said:
Heh...get ready to wait...A LONG TIME.

You thought the delays on Ultimates 1 & 2 were bad? Heh, Millar and Hitch have nothing on Miller.

#10 comes out August 27 (unless its delayed again), and after that I'm almost positive we won't see a new issue of ASB&R probably next spring, maybe even summer.

If Jim Lee was right when he said the plans were to run the series between 18-22 issues, we'll be waiting until after the Apocalypse for the ending of this tale.
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But I thought the delays were mostly related to his directing duties of The Spirit, and doesn't that come out sometime in the fall?
 
DIrishB said:
Heh...get ready to wait...A LONG TIME.

You thought the delays on Ultimates 1 & 2 were bad? Heh, Millar and Hitch have nothing on Miller.

#10 comes out August 27 (unless its delayed again), and after that I'm almost positive we won't see a new issue of ASB&R probably next spring, maybe even summer.

If Jim Lee was right when he said the plans were to run the series between 18-22 issues, we'll be waiting until after the Apocalypse for the ending of this tale.
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Aw shucks...

I reckon seeing The Dark Knight has forced Miller into locking himself into a room and re-assessing how he writes Batman. He's spending all of this time trying to find a way to retcon all of the previous ASB&R stories and bring back his classic style.

*Waits for DIB and Willverine to kick my ****
 
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Doublehex said:
But I thought the delays were mostly related to his directing duties of The Spirit, and doesn't that come out sometime in the fall?
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But then I think Sin City 2 is next for him, and I know he has several other projects (comics and film) lined up. In terms of a release schedule, we'll probably see something along the lines of the series so far (an average of about 3 issues per year).

Gothamite said:
Aw shucks...

I reckon seeing The Dark Knight has forced Miller into locking himself into a room and re-assessing how he writes Batman. He's spending all of this time trying to find a way to retcon all of the previous ASB&R stories and bring back his classic style.

*Waits for DIB and Willverine to kick my ****
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Not at all. I only do that to *******s.

Besides, I look at it in the sense that Miller is building the character in AS Batman & Robin to the one we see in Dark Knight Returns (and Strikes Again, but who cares about that one) and hinted at in Year One. Character motivation is consistent, at least.

In terms of what Miller's trying to accomplish with the tale (this being more of a parody), I think it makes sense given the evolution of both culture and the comics industry since Miller's groundbreaking Batman tales of the 80's. Doesn't necessarily equate to a better tale (unfortunately), but I still appreciate what Miller is doing. And when it comes down to it, the Green Lantern fight issue and the last issues closing (Bruce and Dick grieving for their lost loved ones) were excellent.

Sometimes its best not to think too much about it and just jump in and enjoy the ride.
 
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So, I've been tapping away at a really *****in' script to eventually try and rope an artist for, and I've been using the script for ASDFG&074 SE issue number 1 as the blueprint, and I found something. This is why Frank Miller is the greatest literary mind in the history of forever.

panel description said:
OK, Jim, I'm shameless. Let's go with an *** SHOT. Panties detailed. Balloons from above. She's walking, restless as always. We can't take our eyes off of her. Especially since she's got one fine ***.
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**** yeah, Franky.
 
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