Ultimately cancelled?

[themightygwynne]

Once again there are rumours that in the next big event (because we all love it when marvel churns out big events) that all the universes might collide and merge. Bendis is being a dick about it. We all hoped cataclysm might have given us an ending, but with FF gone and New Ultimates not far behind and storylines generally being testing grounds to see what people might like in the regular universe, what are people's thoughts?

Marvel only just really stated their NOW! Line so I highly doubt they'll be ripping up that universe but miles is carrying the ultimate line at the moment

 

[wyokid]

(because we all love it when marvel churns out big events)

I always look forward to their events. Original Sin has been incredible so far. Didn't enjoy Infinity, but there were some good parts there. Loved Avengers vs X-Men.

Bendis is being a dick about it.

Because comic fans are so polite and understanding.

We all hoped cataclysm might have given us an ending

Why? Why does it matter if it keeps going? If you don't like it don't buy it. Why would you wish for something someone else enjoys to be taken from them? I hate the current slate of DC Comics films and while I wish that they were more in tune with what I like I don't actually want them to stop making them. I recognize that people enjoy them and wouldn't want that taken from them.

 

[DIrishB]

I always look forward to their events. Original Sin has been incredible so far. Didn't enjoy Infinity, but there were some good parts there. Loved Avengers vs X-Men. Because comic fans are so polite and understanding. Why? Why does it matter if it keeps going? If you don't like it don't buy it. Why would you wish for something someone else enjoys to be taken from them? I hate the current slate of DC Comics films and while I wish that they were more in tune with what I like I don't actually want them to stop making them. I recognize that people enjoy them and wouldn't want that taken from them.

Personally speaking, so I can see an end to the universe I have invested so much time, money, and effort in over the past 10+ years. It's not about trying to take something from you if you enjoy it, but giving it a proper end. And this may be idealistic and unrealistic, but hopefully a quality end, unlike the Ultimatum and Cataclysm events--which while not "ends" were largely touted as such in the lead up to their release, which is blatant false advertising. I'd like to see the Ultimate universe continue if it can actually release quality stuff. Miles Morales - USM is still a decent book, but Ult FF started horribly and only got moderately better, and the All New Ultimates is a joke (the last issue involving the girls going to the beach and having "girl talk" time was handled horribly).

If that means keeping MM-USM as the only Ultimate book, that's fine. But the Ultimates hasn't been good since Millar, no matter your opinions of Ultimates 3 and Ultimate Avengers. Overall the universe has sucked terribly for awhile, again with the USM books being the only decent aspect.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

I don't even know why they have Fialkov writing anything for Marvel. Everything that I've read of his (Marvel-wise) is just absolute trash.

 

[E]

I don't even know why they have Fialkov writing anything for Marvel. Everything that I've read of his (Marvel-wise) is just absolute trash.

I think he has also done some non-Marvel stuff that was also trash.

Didn't he used to be a reporter for CBR or something like that?

 

[themightygwynne]

I want things to end on the sense that as others have said, I've invested time effort and money into the ultimate universe and rather than see the characters I love be picked off one by one I'd hope to see and ending worthy of them. Is that too much to ask for?

 

[Drunken Pickle]

I agree with the ending statements.

You mean to tell me that you don't think Hank Pym was given a considerable, honorable death when Ultimatum #3 was finally released?

 

[wyokid]

You mean to tell me that you don't think Hank Pym was given a considerable, honorable death when Ultimatum #3 was finally released?

You don't consider that a good redemption?

 

[Friday]

I don't even know why they have Fialkov writing anything for Marvel. Everything that I've read of his (Marvel-wise) is just absolute trash.

I think he has also done some non-Marvel stuff that was also trash.

Didn't he used to be a reporter for CBR or something like that?

The Bunker is good and I've heard nothing but good things about I, Vampire.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

Yes, he did redeem himself in a way but it was pretty moronic that the entirety of the Madrox suicide bomber dupes went after him.

 

[E]

Is that too much to ask for?

I think it is.

I'm not trying be all LOL ULTIMTE COMICS SUX, I just think that they have abandoned the notion of putting high-quality writers on the books like they were in the days of Millar/Ellis/Bendis (high quality defined by who they had in their employ at the time). It would be nice to get a really good writer or couple/few writers to write a great end-of-universe story but given the resources they've put on these books over the last few years I really doubt that will be happening.

 

[wyokid]

They still have their highest quality and top writer on one of the books. Have since 2000.

 

[DIrishB]

They still have their highest quality and top writer on one of the books. Have since 2000.

On one. It used to be a case that ALL the Ultimate books had featured, industry-known and revered writers (and artists in some cases like Hitch on Ultimates 1 and 2). Now it's only 1 out of 3 (or 2 when Ult FF is cancelled). And that's strictly because Bendis loves writing USM.

From an editorial and writer/artist assignment stance, E makes a good point: Marvel has failed with the Ultimate universe in terms of direction and talent over the past 5-6 years.

#infectedbyLoeb

 

[Ultimate Houde]

I remember when Ultimate Titles were better than the regular universe.

And Tom mentioned how they were going to work on the regular universe for a bit, and the Ultimate universe didn't need their direction anymore.

Rats leaving a sinking ship.

I also learned today that Millar wrote in one of his later Ultimates, about how the Ultimate Iron Man Origins mini by Card was a tv show and not canon.

Classic.

 

[DIrishB]

I remember when Ultimate Titles were better than the regular universe. And Tom mentioned how they were going to work on the regular universe for a bit, and the Ultimate universe didn't need their direction anymore. Rats leaving a sinking ship. I also learned today that Millar wrote in one of his later Ultimates, about how the Ultimate Iron Man Origins mini by Card was a tv show and not canon. Classic.

Yeah, in one of the Ultimate Avengers comics the events of Card's Ultimate Iron Man minis are shown to be a TV movie based on Tony's life, which he justifiably criticized.

 

[wyokid]

Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there, Tony was more sympathetic and interesting then the drunk ******* that Millar was writing, it had some zany sci-fi, and Stane was so freaking diabolical. Card's an ******* but man is he a good writer. Would have loved to see that Superman story, too bad the [insert really nasty insult here] got in the way. Lord forbid someone has a different opinion than you.

 

[themightygwynne]

I liked the origin but and how he'd always been making the suit throughout his life but the ending sucked and I don't like how they gave him a reason for drinking, that's a key component of his character, his drinking problem.

 

[E]

They still have their highest quality and top writer on one of the books. Have since 2000.

Bendis himself is not a high quality writer. High quantity, definitely. But most of his work is below average.

USM is an exception. The problem is that the book as *ZERO* direction, just like most of Bendis's other work. I've never seen a writer as bad as him who can't hold to a storyline and develop it completely.

Bendis is not a top writer. At one point it might have looked like he was going to be, but he is soooooo mediocre (even though he has created some great works).

Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there

That's one way to describe it.

 

[DIrishB]

Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there, Tony was more sympathetic and interesting then the drunk ******* that Millar was writing, it had some zany sci-fi, and Stane was so freaking diabolical. Card's an ******* but man is he a good writer. Would have loved to see that Superman story, too bad the [insert really nasty insult here] got in the way. Lord forbid someone has a different opinion than you.

You're entitled to your opinion all you want, just don't be surprised when someone disagrees and gives their reasons why, which I'm about to do:

Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.

First, Tony was portrayed as a drunk in Ultimates, yes, but that's an intrinsic part of who the character was in the 616 universe. The only difference is he's a full on drunk in the Ultimate universe and not a recovering alcoholic. Given the brain tumor and his insanely high intelligence, I can understand it.

And yes, Ultimate Iron Man was so "out there", but not in a good way. Card attempted to pointlessly alter Tony's abilities. Instead of him being a normal human with super intelligence in a suit, Card turned him into a Wolverine-esque type character in terms of his ability to regrow limbs and body parts, something which is irrevocably stupid and unnecessary for Iron Man.

Card has written some great sci-fi novels in the past, but his take on Iron Man was an ego driven attempt to reboot a character who'd already been rebooted. It was unnecessary and moronic, as I said, and also completely went against continuity since Tony at no point had shown the ability to heal himself. Ultimate Iron Man was Card's attempt to **** his ego off using Ultimate Iron Man. And it showed.

If Card wanted to tell such a story, let him do it with original characters. That might've made it more forgivable, except for the damn monkey brains. So stupid.

 

[themightygwynne]

What did you think of the ultimate comics: ironman story? Devil in the armour? Something like that?

 

[DIrishB]

What did you think of the ultimate comics: ironman story? Devil in the armour? Something like that?

That was ok. Not exactly memorable or worthwhile, but much better than the Card Ult Iron Man stuff. I liked the Ult Iron Man vs Hulk mini, though it's been awhile since I read it.

 

[wyokid]

You're entitled to your opinion all you want, just don't be surprised when someone disagrees and gives their reasons why, which I'm about to do:

Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.

First, Tony was portrayed as a drunk in Ultimates, yes, but that's an intrinsic part of who the character was in the 616 universe. The only difference is he's a full on drunk in the Ultimate universe and not a recovering alcoholic. Given the brain tumor and his insanely high intelligence, I can understand it.

And yes, Ultimate Iron Man was so "out there", but not in a good way. Card attempted to pointlessly alter Tony's abilities. Instead of him being a normal human with super intelligence in a suit, Card turned him into a Wolverine-esque type character in terms of his ability to regrow limbs and body parts, something which is irrevocably stupid and unnecessary for Iron Man.

Card has written some great sci-fi novels in the past, but his take on Iron Man was an ego driven attempt to reboot a character who'd already been rebooted. It was unnecessary and moronic, as I said, and also completely went against continuity since Tony at no point had shown the ability to heal himself. Ultimate Iron Man was Card's attempt to **** his ego off using Ultimate Iron Man. And it showed.

If Card wanted to tell such a story, let him do it with original characters. That might've made it more forgivable, except for the damn monkey brains. So stupid.

I think that's why people hate it and why I love it. I HATED Ultimate Tony before that. HATED. Now thanks to Card, Bendis, Loeb, and Ellis I love him.

 

[DIrishB]

I think that's why people hate it and why I love it. I HATED Ultimate Tony before that. HATED. Now thanks to Card, Bendis, Loeb, and Ellis I love him.

I still think Millar wrote the best Ultimate Tony Stark. He brought us the best iteration of the lovable scoundrel that Tony is, which I think largely inspired the movie version portrayed by RDJ (albeit with substantially less drinking). Not to say it's completely the same or not also heavily influenced by the 616 version as well, but I always get the vibe that RDJ is channeling a toned down version of Ultimate Tony in his performances.

And in your opinion, how was giving Ultimate Tony regenerative powers a la Wolverine a good thing? It was stupid, pointless, amateurish, and a clumsy and unneeded retcon, which was quickly in and of itself retconned (thank God) because it was so moronic. How is that good writing to you? Like I said if that's something Card wanted to explore he should've done so with an original character, not one who'd already had an extensive depiction in said comic universe NEVER REGENERATING because he's not frigging Wolverine. And nano-monkeys...really. Jesus.

Also, I don't see what Loeb ever did with Ultimate Iron Man that was noteworthy, worthwhile, etc. I was horrified by everything Loeb did in the Ultimate verse, because it was all mind-numbing, shallow crap.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.

Really? Worse than Ultimatum and the Ultimate Hulk annual and Ultimate Power?

It was frustratingly out of sync with the previously established Iron Man, but at least the story was coherent. The second one was also way worse than the first.

 

[wyokid]

I still think Millar wrote the best Ultimate Tony Stark. He brought us the best iteration of the lovable scoundrel that Tony is, which I think largely inspired the movie version portrayed by RDJ (albeit with substantially less drinking). Not to say it's completely the same or not also heavily influenced by the 616 version as well, but I always get the vibe that RDJ is channeling a toned down version of Ultimate Tony in his performances.

For me he wasn't lovable. For me he was a giant emotionally void ******* who didn't learn from his mistakes or care about anything but himself. Everyone was just a giant prick under Millar. Cap was a xenophobic bully and a mockery of the original character, Bruce was a whiney and emo horndog, Thor was a massive Liberal hippie, Betty was an emotionally manipulative *****, Hank and Janet were fine until the issue with them just beating the hell out of each other, Black Widow and Hawkeye are introduced by slaughtering not only bad guys but innocent people, and Nick Fury was just kind of there. Ugh.

And in your opinion, how was giving Ultimate Tony regenerative powers a la Wolverine a good thing? It was stupid, pointless, amateurish, and a clumsy and unneeded retcon, which was quickly in and of itself retconned (thank God) because it was so moronic. How is that good writing to you? Like I said if that's something Card wanted to explore he should've done so with an original character, not one who'd already had an extensive depiction in said comic universe NEVER REGENERATING because he's not frigging Wolverine. And nano-monkeys...really. Jesus.

Is your problem not the power but that it goes against continuity? My belief is that continuity is there to serve a story and not the other way around. If Millar wanted to he could have squeezed it in. Instead he decided to not only make it a cartoon but then mock it. Regardless of how you feel about the story that's just not a cool thing to do. I thought was a cool power (loved how his whole body was a brain) and it even got referenced in Ultimate Human.

Also, I don't see what Loeb ever did with Ultimate Iron Man that was noteworthy, worthwhile, etc. I was horrified by everything Loeb did in the Ultimate verse, because it was all mind-numbing, shallow crap.

I LOVED the sex tape. In the first two volumes they were obsessed with PR and a sex tape with not only two members but the fact that one of them was a traitor was just juicy. Then it was revealed to be Ultron behind it and it got juicier. I also loved his relationship with Carol Danvers. Really wish Jeph Loeb could have been able to continue with that. I really wish the original plans for Ultimatum happened (was originally MUCH smaller before Bendis decided that it should be an event) because as much as I loved New Ultimates The Ultimates 4 with Ed McGuinness and an actual story arc for Zarda would have been epic.

It was frustratingly out of sync with the previously established Iron Man, but at least the story was coherent. The second one was also way worse than the first.

I will say that I did not enjoy the second one that much. Everyone just sort of devolved into psychopaths.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

Just going to say this: Hawkeye and Widow didn't kill any innocents. Everyone in both buildings were alien sleeper agents.

 

[wyokid]

Just going to say this: Hawkeye and Widow didn't kill any innocents. Everyone in both buildings were alien sleeper agents.

I refuse to believe that a building in New York only had sleeper agents in it. That's unrealistic and silly. ESPECIALLY in a comic that focused on "realism". That's like saying no one died in the final act of Man of Steel.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I refuse to believe that a building in New York only had sleeper agents in it. That's unrealistic and silly. ESPECIALLY in a comic that focused on "realism". That's like saying no one died in the final act of Man of Steel.

Didn't it show them turning back into the Chitauri when they had been shot?

 

[wyokid]

Didn't it show them turning back into the Chitauri when they had been shot?

No it did not. You're thinking of Skrulls in the regular universe.

 

[themightygwynne]

I think the good thing with the ultimate universe used to be that it would come back and go : actually this is weird isn't it?

Like with Thor I loved ultimates 2 and everyone going? Wait...this guy is a god? And with cap there was much more if the out of time stuff and I guess 50s jock guy would be a bit of a douche.

Giant man...when you look at it he is kinda useless.

But when that had stopped and the examination had sort of stopped suddenly they had to come up with new stories and new ideas and that's when it became apparent that for all the clever mirror holding these were much the same characters, and suddenly nothing new or fresh was coming out and it began to feel very much like the 616