Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day (#546-567) (Spoilers)

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Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

McCheese said:
I knew this would happen from the second I heard the name One More Day. I swear to god I predicted everything about this story right down to Joey Q getting rid of the marriage he hates so much.

Joe Q is an awful EiC. He's made his opinion about the marriage very clear for a long time. He hates it. He thinks it was a bad move and he'd like to undo it. He even went so far as to draw this mini himself, no doubt an attempt on his part to permanently stamp this change with his own name. He clearly thinks that in the end he will be proven right. Unfortunately he hasn't listened to the fans who've been railing against this move on messageboards like this one for years. He didn't listen to the writer who asked to have his name removed from this story. He didn't pay any heed to the massively popular movies that hinged entirely on Peter's relationship with MJ. Lord only knows how many people in the Marvel offices have told him this is a bad idea, but he plowed ahead with it anyway. Because he is a terrible EiC. If this doesn't cost Joe his job nothing will and that is a damn shame for Marvel and all the characters he will no doubt screw up after getting away with this.
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I don't think he's terrible at all, and if he doesn't like the marriage and feels it's hurting the franchise, good for him. For all we knows there are writers who want to do Spidey, Joe Q has offered Spidey too, and they've said, "Nah. Not if he's married."

I'm fine with that. I'm more annoyed at the immediate retcon of the unmasking which was something that was stupid - but part of me is going, "Well - at least they've got the balls to fix the mistakes". Good for him trying.

What I find odd is just how hard he's trying!

Seriously - why go to all this trouble of Mephisto and May and the unmasking when... y'know - he coulda just had them get a divorce. Oh, but then it "ages" him too much - his years-dead ex-girlfriend had children. He's a teacher. Here's how to instantly age a character in the eyes of a child: Make him a married teacher with kids.

Spidey hit all three. Divorce him and then have Mephisto show up and youth him and everyone else. A guy like Mephisto can show up if you have to do something so drastic as youthenise him (heh - read that aloud for funnyness), but **** - Judge Judy is all you need to break up MJ and Spidey.

But - I give him props. You may disagree with the decision - and a lot of people do - but Joe Q properly did this with a huge amount of effort. He unmasked Spidey, turned his life inside out, had May shot, and he drew the comic himself. Mistake or no - that's a lot of dedication and personal work. I'm really impressed with Joe Q right now - even if I don't think ONE MORE DAY is any good.

Ice said:
I don't see how a new Cap is a "shock twist" but that's another topic.
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Cap dies. Then there's another Cap. In a year everything will be the same except for the occasional, "I wish I was as good as Steve." "He'd be proud." scenes from the 'new' Cap.

I don't see how killing Steve Rogers has done anything for the character - but then, I'm not reading it so it's very possible I'm talking absolute nonsense. I'm willing to accept that if true.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

He didn't want to divorce him because he felt that would damage the character, and on that point, I agree with him. A divorce would be idiotic no matter how it would be written.

Bass said:
Cap dies. Then there's another Cap. In a year everything will be the same except for the occasional, "I wish I was as good as Steve." "He'd be proud." scenes from the 'new' Cap.

I don't see how killing Steve Rogers has done anything for the character - but then, I'm not reading it so it's very possible I'm talking absolute nonsense. I'm willing to accept that if true.
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Huh? I don't see what that has to do with a new cap being "shocking." :?
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Bass said:
I don't think he's terrible at all, and if he doesn't like the marriage and feels it's hurting the franchise, good for him. For all we knows there are writers who want to do Spidey, Joe Q has offered Spidey too, and they've said, "Nah. Not if he's married."
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And for all we know there are writers right now that are saying, "Woah. You just retconned 20 years of stories? I'm not touching that mess with a 10 foot pole."

Baseless speculation is fun, but it's a two way street.
I'm fine with that. I'm more annoyed at the immediate retcon of the unmasking which was something that was stupid - but part of me is going, "Well - at least they've got the balls to fix the mistakes". Good for him trying.
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It never should have been done in the first place. Which brings me back to my 'He sucks at his job' argument. If he had just told Millar "No. You can't unmask Spider-Man for shock value because we're just going to have to retcon it in the very near future." then it wouldn't be a problem now.
What I find odd is just how hard he's trying!

Seriously - why go to all this trouble of Mephisto and May and the unmasking when... y'know - he coulda just had them get a divorce. Oh, but then it "ages" him too much - his years-dead ex-girlfriend had children. He's a teacher. Here's how to instantly age a character in the eyes of a child: Make him a married teacher with kids.

Spidey hit all three. Divorce him and then have Mephisto show up and youth him and everyone else. A guy like Mephisto can show up if you have to do something so drastic as youthenise him (heh - read that aloud for funnyness), but **** - Judge Judy is all you need to break up MJ and Spidey.
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I've been saying since the beginning that they should just get divorced. Is it that hard to believe that the massive stress that a double life as Spider-man might put on a marriage might cause a divorce. How many marriages end because of regular pedestrian problems? Would it be that much of a stretch to think MJ and Peter might develop a few marital problems with him being hunted by the government for switching sides during the Civil War, May getting shot by the Kingpin, or any of the other crap that she'd constantly be forced to deal with? Grow some balls and send them to divorce court. Don't retcon 20 years of stories. And certainly don't do it as poorly as they've gone about it here. This retcon is Joe Q's baby and it sucks. That falls on him.
But - I give him props. You may disagree with the decision - and a lot of people do - but Joe Q properly did this with a huge amount of effort. He unmasked Spidey, turned his life inside out, had May shot, and he drew the comic himself. Mistake or no - that's a lot of dedication and personal work. I'm really impressed with Joe Q right now - even if I don't think ONE MORE DAY is any good.
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So if you spend a lot of time doing something that makes you good at it? He may have put a lot of effort into this, but if the final product is crap than I don't see how that makes him a good editor.

Hard working? Sure. Good? Clearly not.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

McCheese said:
And for all we know there are writers right now that are saying, "Woah. You just retconned 20 years of stories? I'm not touching that mess with a 10 foot pole."

Baseless speculation is fun, but it's a two way street.
It never should have been done in the first place. Which brings me back to my 'He sucks at his job' argument. If he had just told Millar "No. You can't unmask Spider-Man for shock value because we're just going to have to retcon it in the very near future." then it wouldn't be a problem now.
I've been saying since the beginning that they should just get divorced. Is it that hard to believe that the massive stress that a double life as Spider-man might put on a marriage might cause a divorce. How many marriages end because of regular pedestrian problems? Would it be that much of a stretch to think MJ and Peter might develop a few marital problems with him being hunted by the government for switching sides during the Civil War, May getting shot by the Kingpin, or any of the other crap that she'd constantly be forced to deal with? Grow some balls and send them to divorce court. Don't retcon 20 years of stories. And certainly don't do it as poorly as they've gone about it here. This retcon is Joe Q's baby and it sucks. That falls on him.

So if you spend a lot of time doing something that makes you good at it? He may have put a lot of effort into this, but if the final product is crap than I don't see how that makes him a good editor.

Hard working? Sure. Good? Clearly not.
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Fair points.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

McCheese said:
And for all we know there are writers right now that are saying, "Woah. You just retconned 20 years of stories? I'm not touching that mess with a 10 foot pole."

Baseless speculation is fun, but it's a two way street.
It never should have been done in the first place. Which brings me back to my 'He sucks at his job' argument. If he had just told Millar "No. You can't unmask Spider-Man for shock value because we're just going to have to retcon it in the very near future." then it wouldn't be a problem now.
I've been saying since the beginning that they should just get divorced. Is it that hard to believe that the massive stress that a double life as Spider-man might put on a marriage might cause a divorce. How many marriages end because of regular pedestrian problems? Would it be that much of a stretch to think MJ and Peter might develop a few marital problems with him being hunted by the government for switching sides during the Civil War, May getting shot by the Kingpin, or any of the other crap that she'd constantly be forced to deal with? Grow some balls and send them to divorce court. Don't retcon 20 years of stories. And certainly don't do it as poorly as they've gone about it here. This retcon is Joe Q's baby and it sucks. That falls on him.

So if you spend a lot of time doing something that makes you good at it? He may have put a lot of effort into this, but if the final product is crap than I don't see how that makes him a good editor.

Hard working? Sure. Good? Clearly not.
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Thing is while i disagree with OMD.... JQ has made good decisions too look at A:C,Iron Fist, NA, etc.

Has he made mistakes? sure but to err is human....no one is perfect.


I perfer JQ over Dan'' Kill em all" Didio
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Well, that happened.

I gotta say, I'm with Bass here, I liked the execution. It was well done, even poignant. But completely unnecessary.

How did Harry die originally, by the way?
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

So, I just downloaded Spidey 545.

It turned out to be a Japanese porn comic about a pregnant nurse.

I was wondering why someone would put the cover to Spidey 545 in the cbr file only to be followed by porn.

Obviously, the creator assumed this would be what I was really after, what I really wanted, because as we all know - porn is so hard to find on the internet, and lord knows the best time to find it is when you're sitting down about to read a Spider-Man comic.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Dancanread said:
How did Harry die originally, by the way?
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Venom implied him on some weird snow-board looking hovering glider thing .......



ok seriously I think he died of poisoning
 
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Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Lithium said:
After saving the lives of Peter, Liz Allen, Mary Jane, and his own son Norman, he died from the Goblin Serum he injected himself with.
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I was close with poisoning
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

SSJmole said:
Venom implied him on some weird snow-board looking hovering glider thing .......



ok seriously I think he died of poisoning
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Yeah, it was a enhancement of the original Goblin formula. It was a untested formula that Norman was working on before his death in issue ASM #122 and it was unstable, it ultimately killed him. But not before Harry came to his senses and saved Peter.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Not once does he address the issue, he simply talks about the edges of it.

It's an art really, not to answer the obvious questions
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Ultimate Houde said:
Not once does he address the issue, he simply talks about the edges of it.

It's an art really, not to answer the obvious questions
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Well it's part 1 of 5. I'm sure he'll address the more serious concerns in the other parts.
 
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Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Just read the issue.

It's and odd ending. I didn't expect MJ to **** Peter so har... wait. That was the porn comic.

Okay! NOW I've read the real issue.

Y'know - it's pretty good. I actually liked it.

The problem I have is twofold:

Firstly - it retcons a lot of things, some things they just did that they said mattered. It's annoying because these 'new things' now appear as gimmicks - even though they did matter. All those pieces led to this story working as it did. It actually paid them off. This situation needed the unmasking for it to work as well as it did. The problem is - it's a retcon. It hits the 'reset' button, which is kinda like saying, "It was all a dream". However - it DOES properly put in real drama by saying, "You can have it be a dream - but you LOSE so much". I think it's done very well - but it still feels like, "It was all a dream". Done well, but not fulfilling.

Second - The retcon is extremely retroactive to the point where it's closer to the Ultimate universe's Spider-Man. This is odd because most of the Ultimate universe is becoming more 616-y. Even to the point where USM now has Aunt May and MJ aware of Spidey's secret identity. It's like USM and 616SM have switched places.

The truth is - I prefer Spidey where he is now in 616. That to me - is Spider-Man. Ultimate Spider-Man is this weird fanfiction thing and the old-616 is a convoluted, dull mess.

I prefer it here.

And I think they did a good job.

What I'm annoyed with is my problem - it feels contrived, it feels forced, and it feels like nothing really matters. It's not a Spider-Man story. It's a very heavy-handed editorial decision.

But that will pass and this will make the titles healthier in the long run I think. I just hope MJ stays as a regular character.

I'm not actually even remotely outraged by this mini - I also think Quesada did a very good job on the art and pacing and really sold the emotional scenes. This series pretty much makes me think we're lucky to have him. I can't imagine Jim Shooter or Stan Lee doing anything like this. This entire mini is about a fan trying to bring back the Spidey he loves. And he really did his best to pay it off.

I think it's succeeded far more than it failed.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

I just read the last issue and I have to say that for the most part I agree with Bass. I like where Peter ends up at the end. I really do, but I still hate how we got here.

In the end MJ and Peter have just broken up and things are awkward between them. The very same thing could have been achieved with a divorce.

Also we introduce two new characters here with the promise of more new characters to come. So why do we need the old characters back? Is it that hard to come up with compelling new characters in Peter's life? Harry's story has been told. Telling it again is redundant and stupid.

The unmasking gets undone, but it never should have happened in the first place. Also I prefer the Avengers: The Initiative's attempt at a retcon to this haphazard mess of magic and fruity red devils. And while we're on the subject of said demon, could his lines have been any cheesier? "A love like yours comes about but once a millenia" :sick:

But what I really have a hard time with is how contrived this book feels. Bass is right. This book has the words Marvel Editorial Department written quite clearly in the background of every frame. Was that the Easter Egg Quesada was talking about?

Spider-Man does have a better feel to it when he's single and his identity is secret. I loved the lighter tone that this book had in the last 9 pages. Maybe he should have never gotten married. He definately should have never revealed his identity. But these things are now undone. Not undone in the way I would like or that I found remotely entertaining, but undone none the less. As much as I hated this mini, I am excited about Brand New Day. It was poorly done, but it has the potential to lead to good things. That is the closest thing I can give to a compliment about this silly little retcon about a deal with a fruity red devil.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

That is a cheesy line now that I think about it, but I guess it didn't dawn on me when I read the issue since coming from a villain, it likely wouldn't have sounded [so] cheesy.
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

McCheese said:
As much as I hated this mini, I am excited about Brand New Day. It was poorly done, but it has the potential to lead to good things. That is the closest thing I can give to a compliment about this silly little retcon about a deal with a fruity red devil.
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Agreed.


My question is why, after all that, does the "new" Peter still even know MJ?? I thought the whole point of Mephisto's (read: JoeQ) Retcon was that there would then be NO possibility whatsoever of them ever getting back together again. Yet first thing we see at the party is MJ, and Peter is looking longingly after her when she goes to the elevator. That just tells you right there that once Joe Q is gone from Marvel, someone can fix this mess immediately.

If I'm not making much sense, it's cuz I'm so ****ing pissed about the turn of events. Even though I knew they were coming from a mile away.

When is #546 scheduled to come out?


OMD: .0001/5 Tafts
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

wow, i just finished the interview and this guy actually truly believes what he's doing is the right thing. I don't read spidey books but that interview pissed me off so bad. How could you do that to your hardcore readers and fans just because you want your way to be seen through. also, i hate how he talks about keeping spidey fresh so that he never ages yet, oh wait, what happens? he allows the death of a great character like captain america. yeah keeping it real fresh. :x
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Hibiki said:
wow, i just finished the interview and this guy actually truly believes what he's doing is the right thing. I don't read spidey books but that interview pissed me off so bad. How could you do that to your hardcore readers and fans just because you want your way to be seen through. also, i hate how he talks about keeping spidey fresh so that he never ages yet, oh wait, what happens? he allows the death of a great character like captain america. yeah keeping it real fresh. :x
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Wow, is it time already?


*Leaves*
 
Re: JMS & Quesada give Spider-Man "One More Day".

Bass said:
So, I just downloaded Spidey 545.

It turned out to be a Japanese porn comic about a pregnant nurse.

I was wondering why someone would put the cover to Spidey 545 in the cbr file only to be followed by porn.
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It's actually a very poignant statement.

Hibiki said:
he allows the death of a great character like captain america.
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OMG SPOILERZ WTF?!?!?!?!!!!!!11111
 

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