thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Proj is having a breakdown over this.
Proj is having a breakdown over this.
Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day (#546-567) (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Gemini
- Start date
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I would like an explanation as well.
I would like an explanation as well.
supermusli
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I don´t get it. It´s like Marvel WANTS me to hate them, and they wont rest until they´ve driven me off comics for good.
This sadens me. :-(
I don´t get it. It´s like Marvel WANTS me to hate them, and they wont rest until they´ve driven me off comics for good.
This sadens me. :-(
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Unfortunately the sad answer is that it doesn't. Joe Q is just pulling things out of his *** as far as what has changed and what hasn't - even things that have nothing to do with the marriage. It's obvious they are considering this a sort of clean slate and as they get to different aspects of Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and his life they will decide then how to handle it. Pretty ****ty.
I was listening to Howard Stern this morning as I always do and to my surprise Joe Q came on the air to talk about it. They didn't spend a lot of time on it because Howard seems a little embarrassed that he's still into comics, but he did say he's known "Joey" for a couple years now and that he's a really nice guy (notably he never said Joe's last name - I don't think he knows it).
All Joe was doing was clarifying what happened in the story to the people on the show because none of them understood it. He explained that Mephisto told Peter he'd save May if he's let him take the marriage and that MJ was the one who made the final call. He also said that the wedding day happened but not the wedding and that would be explored in a later story. He said nothing about magic (heh) or about what I thought was the most interesting thing about ASM #545 - that Mephisto was doing this as part of his battle against God.
It was pretty uneventful and only lasted a few minutes and really served only as a summary of the issue for people who didn't read it and ultimately didn't care, but I thought it was funny that he was on.
Unfortunately the sad answer is that it doesn't. Joe Q is just pulling things out of his *** as far as what has changed and what hasn't - even things that have nothing to do with the marriage. It's obvious they are considering this a sort of clean slate and as they get to different aspects of Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and his life they will decide then how to handle it. Pretty ****ty.
I was listening to Howard Stern this morning as I always do and to my surprise Joe Q came on the air to talk about it. They didn't spend a lot of time on it because Howard seems a little embarrassed that he's still into comics, but he did say he's known "Joey" for a couple years now and that he's a really nice guy (notably he never said Joe's last name - I don't think he knows it).
All Joe was doing was clarifying what happened in the story to the people on the show because none of them understood it. He explained that Mephisto told Peter he'd save May if he's let him take the marriage and that MJ was the one who made the final call. He also said that the wedding day happened but not the wedding and that would be explored in a later story. He said nothing about magic (heh) or about what I thought was the most interesting thing about ASM #545 - that Mephisto was doing this as part of his battle against God.
It was pretty uneventful and only lasted a few minutes and really served only as a summary of the issue for people who didn't read it and ultimately didn't care, but I thought it was funny that he was on.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
To be honest, I've stopped caring about ONE MORE DAY. It was a jumbled mess with the sole purpose of trying to get rid of a mistake they made in the comic 15 years ago (or however long it was).
I'm happy the wedding's off, and that Spidey is now more like the classic Spidey. I'm happy with the result, and I don't care about the means it took to get there.
I suppose, for me, the ends justify the means. Sure, we'll still get crappy Spidey stories but... to me, they'll feel like Spidey stories as opposed to this weird-*** soap opera about a costumed ****.
The fact is - continuity sucks and always sucks when its 40 years long and written by entirely different committees. It's not like it's Stan Lee and then JMS. There's 40 years, four titles, countless spin-offs, and all measure of things. ONE MORE DAY plays into that. Continuity is just a mess you sweep under the rug. ONE MORE DAY decided to get something of value from under that rug, and in so doing, has just filled the room with dust. In a couple of years, no one will care about ONE MORE DAY's continuity headaches. I've decided to transport myself those years ahead and thus, I don't care.
It's 40-year old committee written continuity. It will always suck when someone touches it.
But sometimes, the end result can be worth it.
To be honest, I've stopped caring about ONE MORE DAY. It was a jumbled mess with the sole purpose of trying to get rid of a mistake they made in the comic 15 years ago (or however long it was).
I'm happy the wedding's off, and that Spidey is now more like the classic Spidey. I'm happy with the result, and I don't care about the means it took to get there.
I suppose, for me, the ends justify the means. Sure, we'll still get crappy Spidey stories but... to me, they'll feel like Spidey stories as opposed to this weird-*** soap opera about a costumed ****.
The fact is - continuity sucks and always sucks when its 40 years long and written by entirely different committees. It's not like it's Stan Lee and then JMS. There's 40 years, four titles, countless spin-offs, and all measure of things. ONE MORE DAY plays into that. Continuity is just a mess you sweep under the rug. ONE MORE DAY decided to get something of value from under that rug, and in so doing, has just filled the room with dust. In a couple of years, no one will care about ONE MORE DAY's continuity headaches. I've decided to transport myself those years ahead and thus, I don't care.
It's 40-year old committee written continuity. It will always suck when someone touches it.
But sometimes, the end result can be worth it.
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I agree with that , I'm glad he's now masked again and using web shooters ,
Doesn't matter if it was all because Mephisto jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what , I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too. And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you. Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due I bet your aunt's life against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you." Spider-man replied "My name's Peter and it might be a sin, But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."
I'm just glad that he's spidey again
I agree with that , I'm glad he's now masked again and using web shooters ,
Doesn't matter if it was all because Mephisto jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what , I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too. And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you. Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due I bet your aunt's life against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you." Spider-man replied "My name's Peter and it might be a sin, But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."
I'm just glad that he's spidey again
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2005
- Messages
- 2,464
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Bah, I like character development, that the fact that Peter got married showed he developed from a goofy kid to a responsible adult, what's the point of making him the same goofy kid again? Why should be the same character he was in 1975? What's the the point of the character if he never develops? We have USM for stories about a single teenage spidey, its what makes the 2 Spideys different. Peter is supposed to be in his mid 20s now, he should act like an adult with responsiblities, not a goofy kid.
Bah, I like character development, that the fact that Peter got married showed he developed from a goofy kid to a responsible adult, what's the point of making him the same goofy kid again? Why should be the same character he was in 1975? What's the the point of the character if he never develops? We have USM for stories about a single teenage spidey, its what makes the 2 Spideys different. Peter is supposed to be in his mid 20s now, he should act like an adult with responsiblities, not a goofy kid.
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Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I agree, also what really pisses me off most about the retcon is the revival of Harry Osborn. Now as I recall his death was very appropriate and I see no reason bringing him back. I'm okay we want a more classic spidey status quo back. Why not just adjust the situation. You want the Harry character back? Why not give Peter a new best friend a new set of character for him to interact with, just play down the married guy with out a life and add the superhero trying to have a normal life. Really the only thing the marriage takes away is the story of Peter hiding his identity to his romantic interest.
I'm just saying there's a million things they could of done to get the same feeling of Spidey's classic status quo than taking a dump on 20 years of continuity and *****ing out on a character's developement.
I agree, also what really pisses me off most about the retcon is the revival of Harry Osborn. Now as I recall his death was very appropriate and I see no reason bringing him back. I'm okay we want a more classic spidey status quo back. Why not just adjust the situation. You want the Harry character back? Why not give Peter a new best friend a new set of character for him to interact with, just play down the married guy with out a life and add the superhero trying to have a normal life. Really the only thing the marriage takes away is the story of Peter hiding his identity to his romantic interest.
I'm just saying there's a million things they could of done to get the same feeling of Spidey's classic status quo than taking a dump on 20 years of continuity and *****ing out on a character's developement.
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
In fairness alot of the character's development had been handled badly in the first place and some took away from the roots of who he was. I admit some of it had been good e.g I Liked his Marriage
so Undoing it to fix stuff that had been done wrong is a good thing , However I think some of it could of been done naturally. E.g Web shooters , I would had Spider-man face a bad guy and his organic webbing not work , He could have like fallen to the floor like Spider-man 2 when his powers were crazy , then he realised he's lost organic webbing and has to put the shooters back on.
But I know that because he is him again I'll be buying the comics again and enjoying them.
The harry thing , I suspect they wanted a green goblin who was a bad guy since Norman is on thunderbolts , I can see Harry becoming a big Villain for peter to replace his daddy.
In fairness alot of the character's development had been handled badly in the first place and some took away from the roots of who he was. I admit some of it had been good e.g I Liked his Marriage
so Undoing it to fix stuff that had been done wrong is a good thing , However I think some of it could of been done naturally. E.g Web shooters , I would had Spider-man face a bad guy and his organic webbing not work , He could have like fallen to the floor like Spider-man 2 when his powers were crazy , then he realised he's lost organic webbing and has to put the shooters back on.
But I know that because he is him again I'll be buying the comics again and enjoying them.
The harry thing , I suspect they wanted a green goblin who was a bad guy since Norman is on thunderbolts , I can see Harry becoming a big Villain for peter to replace his daddy.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
When you're creating stories, the ends should never justify the means. The simple fact of the matter is, if you're going to tell a story of a magnitude like this, then it should be properly set up and then properly told. If you can't find a reasonable means to achieve your goal, then you need to go back to square one and reconsider it.
I think a story could be told that officially retcons away Peter's marriage, but apparently Quesada couldn't be bothered to go through the trouble of something like that, so instead we get a half-assed deus ex machina that really doesn't make any sense, from any angle you play it. If Peter's life is going to be turned over so dramatically, then Quesada should have put a writer who has a vision for it to logically lead the story to that point and then establish the aftermath. Instead, he slapped Straczynski with it as the man's final good-bye to Spider-Man.
This is your biggest property, Marvel. What a sloppy move.
[Morrison Idolatry] If Grant Morrison had been in charge of this, it would have been amazing. [/Morrison Idolatry]
When you're creating stories, the ends should never justify the means. The simple fact of the matter is, if you're going to tell a story of a magnitude like this, then it should be properly set up and then properly told. If you can't find a reasonable means to achieve your goal, then you need to go back to square one and reconsider it.
I think a story could be told that officially retcons away Peter's marriage, but apparently Quesada couldn't be bothered to go through the trouble of something like that, so instead we get a half-assed deus ex machina that really doesn't make any sense, from any angle you play it. If Peter's life is going to be turned over so dramatically, then Quesada should have put a writer who has a vision for it to logically lead the story to that point and then establish the aftermath. Instead, he slapped Straczynski with it as the man's final good-bye to Spider-Man.
This is your biggest property, Marvel. What a sloppy move.
[Morrison Idolatry] If Grant Morrison had been in charge of this, it would have been amazing. [/Morrison Idolatry]
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Gemini
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
They're not really fixing anything, they're just returning to something that has been more or less deemed obselete in the 616 universe. Spidey wasn't really broken Joe Q just thought that the writers were running out of idea's of how to treat the character after the prolonged series of life-altering events, so he came up with this rediculous band-aid solution, plus he had a personal Bias against the marriage.
The part I have seen that seems to piss the most people off is just how much has changed, people were expecting the retcon to just be the marriage and May's injury. Nobody expected them to change this much, then explain it by saying "It's magic we don't need to explain it" (which is odd because Mystic Arcana established that magic does need rules). So much has been changed for very little to no reason at all, and it's not changing in a good way, it's changing back which is a really bad creative decision.
They're not really fixing anything, they're just returning to something that has been more or less deemed obselete in the 616 universe. Spidey wasn't really broken Joe Q just thought that the writers were running out of idea's of how to treat the character after the prolonged series of life-altering events, so he came up with this rediculous band-aid solution, plus he had a personal Bias against the marriage.
The part I have seen that seems to piss the most people off is just how much has changed, people were expecting the retcon to just be the marriage and May's injury. Nobody expected them to change this much, then explain it by saying "It's magic we don't need to explain it" (which is odd because Mystic Arcana established that magic does need rules). So much has been changed for very little to no reason at all, and it's not changing in a good way, it's changing back which is a really bad creative decision.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Just more proof Marvel won't ever do anything cool with their mystic characters either.
Man, I would love the chance to totally overhaul the mystic Marvel Universe.
Just more proof Marvel won't ever do anything cool with their mystic characters either.
Man, I would love the chance to totally overhaul the mystic Marvel Universe.
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Gemini
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
theyr'e has been a fair bit of set-up for this kinda thing, especially from Roberto Aguirre Sacasa, i wish they'd pull an Annihilation on Marvel's mystic stuff.
theyr'e has been a fair bit of set-up for this kinda thing, especially from Roberto Aguirre Sacasa, i wish they'd pull an Annihilation on Marvel's mystic stuff.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I hate what they did and how they did it, but the slott issue coming out tomorrow/today looks damn good.
I hate what they did and how they did it, but the slott issue coming out tomorrow/today looks damn good.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Also:
Also:
Victor Von Doom
Fist of teh Internets.
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I knew it.
No straight man has that perfect slightly-groomed bedhead look like Peter.
And now that Peter's no longer tied down...that's gonna make those late-night Avenger meetings kinda awkward and tense.
I knew it.
No straight man has that perfect slightly-groomed bedhead look like Peter.
And now that Peter's no longer tied down...that's gonna make those late-night Avenger meetings kinda awkward and tense.
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Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Hee hee hee!
Hee hee hee!
McCheese
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Just read 546 and my feelings can be summed up in one word: Meh.
What? You want more than one word? Fine. It was ok. The new villain seems lame. Really lame. The ending was already spoiled for me by an interview with someone somewhere. I forgot who or where. The mugging plot was dumb. Spider-Man is reminded that some people have it worse than him. Whoopideedoo. This is the first issue of the much hyped BND. Give me a story that can remotely live up to the hype. The back up stories sucked. No way around that. It was a complete waste of the extra dollar.
The dialouge was good, but Lily is annoying me already. Mia was overdone. And Carly is boring. We get it. She's the straightman to Lily's wacky carefree character. Stop beating me over the head with it. All three new girls in Spidey's life suck. I miss MJ.
The art was McNiven, so it was awesome.
3/5 Nothing Special. And that's a shame.
Just read 546 and my feelings can be summed up in one word: Meh.
What? You want more than one word? Fine. It was ok. The new villain seems lame. Really lame. The ending was already spoiled for me by an interview with someone somewhere. I forgot who or where. The mugging plot was dumb. Spider-Man is reminded that some people have it worse than him. Whoopideedoo. This is the first issue of the much hyped BND. Give me a story that can remotely live up to the hype. The back up stories sucked. No way around that. It was a complete waste of the extra dollar.
The dialouge was good, but Lily is annoying me already. Mia was overdone. And Carly is boring. We get it. She's the straightman to Lily's wacky carefree character. Stop beating me over the head with it. All three new girls in Spidey's life suck. I miss MJ.
The art was McNiven, so it was awesome.
3/5 Nothing Special. And that's a shame.
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Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Taken from Newsarama when asked what creators thought of OMD.
Erik Larsen said:
Taken from Newsarama when asked what creators thought of OMD.
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
So...Mephisto ruined Peter's holy marriage as an attack on God...then made him gay to blaspheme him even further. Makes sense.
Also:
So...Mephisto ruined Peter's holy marriage as an attack on God...then made him gay to blaspheme him even further. Makes sense.
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I think people are looking at this all wrong , I think Jameson kissed Peter , most likely in an attempt to seduce him in to finding out who Spider-man is (since he is masked again) But look at Peter's hands he's holding Jameson's nose with one and pulling him off with the other. Peter will not be easily seduced.
:lol:
Also:
I think people are looking at this all wrong , I think Jameson kissed Peter , most likely in an attempt to seduce him in to finding out who Spider-man is (since he is masked again) But look at Peter's hands he's holding Jameson's nose with one and pulling him off with the other. Peter will not be easily seduced.
:lol:
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
If that turns out to be an inverted two-page spread I will laugh in the face of everyone who buys that issue.
If that turns out to be an inverted two-page spread I will laugh in the face of everyone who buys that issue.
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2004
- Messages
- 25,007
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I still don't know how One More Day makes sense. Peter and MJ are never married and somehow everyone forgets that Peter is Spider-Man? Why? What about the people who knew before Civil War? What? I don't get it. How? My mind. **** **** ****. I hate Quesada and his stupid changes. Magic? What the ****? You can't use magic as an excuse, you ****. WHAT THE ****.
*explodes*
I still don't know how One More Day makes sense. Peter and MJ are never married and somehow everyone forgets that Peter is Spider-Man? Why? What about the people who knew before Civil War? What? I don't get it. How? My mind. **** **** ****. I hate Quesada and his stupid changes. Magic? What the ****? You can't use magic as an excuse, you ****. WHAT THE ****.
*explodes*
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
people who knew before will still know like Norman Osborn , Iron Man ect... right?
My question is this , If everything has changed for Peter to make him more like spider-man (which IMO is cool) but wont this effect avengers (he was/is in that right?) Iron man's scarlet spiders , Thunderbolts as for e.g they found Norman after Marvel knights where spider-man beat him for kidnapping his wife? (since he never had a wife) Also due to that plan Scorpion was in the right place to be venom so he shouldn't be anymore
There is so much more too that should have changed because of this but didn't I don't get it. If and I know this has been disgust before but If you create something like this shouldn't they have thought of all the changes this SHOULD create?
people who knew before will still know like Norman Osborn , Iron Man ect... right?
My question is this , If everything has changed for Peter to make him more like spider-man (which IMO is cool) but wont this effect avengers (he was/is in that right?) Iron man's scarlet spiders , Thunderbolts as for e.g they found Norman after Marvel knights where spider-man beat him for kidnapping his wife? (since he never had a wife) Also due to that plan Scorpion was in the right place to be venom so he shouldn't be anymore
There is so much more too that should have changed because of this but didn't I don't get it. If and I know this has been disgust before but If you create something like this shouldn't they have thought of all the changes this SHOULD create?
Gemini
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
oh and I've decided to drop ASM, it's to late for me to cancel getting the first ish (goofy pull list rule at my LCS), this bull crap i just can't deal with
I'm with ya buddy,
oh and I've decided to drop ASM, it's to late for me to cancel getting the first ish (goofy pull list rule at my LCS), this bull crap i just can't deal with
nope, there is a two page spread by JRJR, that clearly states that nobody but NOBODY know's who he is, even Daredevil (who had figured out who peter was solely by listening to his heart beat in the 80's)
"We don't have to explain it, IT'S MAGIC"
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Ok NO one knowing , that pisses me off as some villains e.g Green Goblin , having them know who he is , is great as it lets them do personal attacks.
but :x yes they do! (i know your not the one who said that before I go on) it's not something that needs explaining it's something that is FACT you cange one thing that caused alot of stuff then that stuff could not have happened. FACT.
I give up .... still cool to see him like proper spider-man but my god
Ok NO one knowing , that pisses me off as some villains e.g Green Goblin , having them know who he is , is great as it lets them do personal attacks.
but :x yes they do! (i know your not the one who said that before I go on) it's not something that needs explaining it's something that is FACT you cange one thing that caused alot of stuff then that stuff could not have happened. FACT.
I give up .... still cool to see him like proper spider-man but my god
Gemini
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Let's all just pretend that ASM is taking place in it's own little pocket universe right now, I propose Earth-666 (makes sense cuz of Mephisto's involvement)
Let's all just pretend that ASM is taking place in it's own little pocket universe right now, I propose Earth-666 (makes sense cuz of Mephisto's involvement)
Grocer Man
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Is anyone else reminded of this quote from Astonishing X-Men?
"J. Jonah Jameson'll be tounge-kissing Spider-Man before the X-Men get any good press."
Also:
Is anyone else reminded of this quote from Astonishing X-Men?
"J. Jonah Jameson'll be tounge-kissing Spider-Man before the X-Men get any good press."
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
The only thing worthwhile about all of this is how they're handling Harry Osborn, who is a dark enough character to be allowed to divorce Liz Allen because they sure as hell can't retcon her and normie, because that gets into Daredevil territory.
I want more Harry, less Jackpot (*vomits*), and somebody to beat the **** out of the editor for deciding that NOBODY... Not Norman Osborn, not Aunt May, not MJ, not Tony Stark, that NOBODY remembers his secret identity. It. just. DOES. NOT. MAKE. SENSE!!!
The only thing worthwhile about all of this is how they're handling Harry Osborn, who is a dark enough character to be allowed to divorce Liz Allen because they sure as hell can't retcon her and normie, because that gets into Daredevil territory.
I want more Harry, less Jackpot (*vomits*), and somebody to beat the **** out of the editor for deciding that NOBODY... Not Norman Osborn, not Aunt May, not MJ, not Tony Stark, that NOBODY remembers his secret identity. It. just. DOES. NOT. MAKE. SENSE!!!
