Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Bendis uses deus ex machina to worm his way out of endings all the time. Few of his stories have any damn point.

All the time? Really? I don't think he's good enough of a writer to do that all of the time.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Heheheheh.

I was really being serious and not just throwing in a cheap insult. I don't think he's a good enough writer to even realize he COULD rely on a deus ex machina for many of his stories (not saying he doesn't do it, just that he doesn't do it all the time). So many of his stories just don't have real endings, conclusions, or points to them. It's like he just stops writing them.

In fact, as much as I loved Alias, it was probably one of the best examples of this.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Well, to be fair with Alias, he was given the opportunity to bring her into the main universe through The Pulse, which picked up right where Alias left off...
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Well, to be fair with Alias, he was given the opportunity to bring her into the main universe through The Pulse, which picked up right where Alias left off...

But there should have been some kind of ending or resolution.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

I was really being serious and not just throwing in a cheap insult. I don't think he's a good enough writer to even realize he COULD rely on a deus ex machina for many of his stories (not saying he doesn't do it, just that he doesn't do it all the time). So many of his stories just don't have real endings, conclusions, or points to them. It's like he just stops writing them.

In fact, as much as I loved Alias, it was probably one of the best examples of this.

POWERS was so clearly this, that it made me notice he did it everywhere. Every arc ends on a deus ex machina; a god-like character he mentions earlier shows up and ends the story. With superheroes, he does this all the time. In AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED it's Dr Strange, in SECRET INVASION its Wasp, in ALIAS' first arc, SHIELD (IIRC) was the god-in-a-box, and with THE SIEGE it was The Sentry.

But! Bendis does another big no-no in addition to the deus ex machina; the villain self-destructs. Bendis loves to have his villains go "AAARRR" and suddenly go insane or act like ideiots so that it can easily just end the story. Green Goblin does it all the time. Scarlet Witch was another. The Skrulls decide to invade, secretly, by attacking Manhattan in garish costumes. The Sentry. Have fun; go read a Bendis comic and take a look at the end and tell me if his villain doesn't just implode or a god walks in and solves it.

I can think of three good exceptions that actually end well; the Kingpin arc in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, and the Doc Ock/Kraven arc immediately after. Also, his ULTIMATE MARVEL TEAM-UP stuff didn't do this.

I think Bendis suffers from what a lot of writers do; he's lazy/overworked. Whatever the cause, he doesn't push himself to write well, so all he produces is his average or worst work, which isn't any good. Bendis has done some wonderful stories which is why he's where he is today, but he's just not keeping that quality up.
 
WATCHMEN prequels (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Apparently, WATCHMEN prequels are on the way.

One part of Bass: "These people really love the original and really care about the series and want to tribute it with more works. It's no different from doing yet another Batman reboot or readapting THE WIZARD OF OZ in comic form."

Another part of Bass: "Who in their right mind looks at WATCHMEN and thinks that there's anything left to explore in that series? It's like doing a prequel to HAMLET because Shakespeare didn't give us enough insight in Hamlet's relationship with his father."

I dunno, it doesn't make me angry, just disheartened. Good luck to them, I guess.

Oh, if the site is in flames and all of E's comics are destroyed, I'm guessing it was this that did it.
 
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Re: WATCHMEN prequels (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Apparently, WATCHMEN prequels are on the way.

One part of Bass: "These people really love the original and really care about the series and want to tribute it with more works. It's no different from doing yet another Batman reboot or readapting THE WIZARD OF OZ in comic form."

Another part of Bass: "Who in their right mind looks at WATCHMEN and thinks that there's anything left to explore in that series? It's like doing a prequel to HAMLET because Shakespeare didn't give us enough insight in Hamlet's relationship with his father."

I dunno, it doesn't make me angry, just disheartened. Good luck to them, I guess.

Oh, if the site is in flames and all of E's comics are destroyed, I'm guessing it was this that did it.

I have faith in Darwin Cooke. I still think its a horrible idea, but I have faith in Darwin Cooke.
 
Re: WATCHMEN prequels (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Apparently, WATCHMEN prequels are on the way.

One part of Bass: "These people really love the original and really care about the series and want to tribute it with more works. It's no different from doing yet another Batman reboot or readapting THE WIZARD OF OZ in comic form."

Another part of Bass: "Who in their right mind looks at WATCHMEN and thinks that there's anything left to explore in that series? It's like doing a prequel to HAMLET because Shakespeare didn't give us enough insight in Hamlet's relationship with his father."

I dunno, it doesn't make me angry, just disheartened. Good luck to them, I guess.

Oh, if the site is in flames and all of E's comics are destroyed, I'm guessing it was this that did it.

While the recent movie reboot of Batman has been good, and Skottie Young's Oz comics for Marvel have been amazing... I think the Watchmen prequels will be disappointing. Unless they get Moore to advise, and while I love Cooke, I'm not sure if he can really capture what made Watchmen what it was. I've got to agree with Bass, it's disheartening, and I'm not even a fan of Watchmen, but I do understand its place in the annals of comic/lit history.
 
Re: WATCHMEN prequels (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

I have faith in Darwin Cooke. I still think its a horrible idea, but I have faith in Darwin Cooke.

This. There are not many people I'd have faith in not to ruin this (and most of them wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole for the exact reasons Bass mentioned). But Darwyn Cooke is pretty safe.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

POWERS was so clearly this, that it made me notice he did it everywhere. Every arc ends on a deus ex machina; a god-like character he mentions earlier shows up and ends the story. With superheroes, he does this all the time. In AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED it's Dr Strange, in SECRET INVASION its Wasp, in ALIAS' first arc, SHIELD (IIRC) was the god-in-a-box, and with THE SIEGE it was The Sentry.

But! Bendis does another big no-no in addition to the deus ex machina; the villain self-destructs. Bendis loves to have his villains go "AAARRR" and suddenly go insane or act like ideiots so that it can easily just end the story. Green Goblin does it all the time. Scarlet Witch was another. The Skrulls decide to invade, secretly, by attacking Manhattan in garish costumes. The Sentry. Have fun; go read a Bendis comic and take a look at the end and tell me if his villain doesn't just implode or a god walks in and solves it.

I can think of three good exceptions that actually end well; the Kingpin arc in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, and the Doc Ock/Kraven arc immediately after. Also, his ULTIMATE MARVEL TEAM-UP stuff didn't do this.

I think Bendis suffers from what a lot of writers do; he's lazy/overworked. Whatever the cause, he doesn't push himself to write well, so all he produces is his average or worst work, which isn't any good. Bendis has done some wonderful stories which is why he's where he is today, but he's just not keeping that quality up.

The first arc of Powers pissed me off so much. We've got a wonderfuly slow mystery building over who could kill Retro Girl and on the last page of the second to last issue the killer is SPRAY PAINTING THE WALL OUTSIDE THE POLICE STATION!

**** spoilers. That sucked.

Then we had an interrogation where we learned basically nothing and its over.

I can't understand why people liked that book. I really can't. I mean Oeming's art is awesome, but it just stops without a satisfying end. Nothing any of the characters have done to that point matter because they WENT OUTSIDE AT THE RIGHT ****ING TIME.

Blaurgh.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Bass, I think that Bendis style of deus machina is more prolific to event comics than just showing up in Bendis stories, because of audience expectation, editorial control, or just the writers involved being conditioned to write a certain type of superhero story. I'm of the mind that a great deal of event comics have wonderful high concepts with a lot of narrative potential. I'm going to focus more on Marvel events, in large part because DC (for better or worse) go for event stories with lower social relevance, creating stories with lower ambition but that come closer to hitting their mark. But I can't think of many Marvel events that didn't have potential. The problem is, the writers either don't have the chops, the leverage, or the ambition to really explore these ideas, at least not while giving the majority of superhero readers what they want. So they start writing these stories about high minded themes, then when they realize they aren't really telling a story about those themes, the only recourse to finish the story is some implausible deus ex.

House of M: What is the nature of humanity on the brink of post-humanism. Who cares? A wizard did it.
Civil War: Where should the line between personal liberty and public safety fall? Oh... Wait... Never mind. One side just gave up.
Secret Invasion: Who do you trust? Well, not those green guys in colorful costumes shooting ray guns everywhere.
Dark Reign/Siege: How far can we ethically go in the pursuit of safety and where does the balance lie between the personal virture and the policy effectiveness of our elected/appointed representatives? Oh, one crazy dude hit another crazy dude? Well, that settles that...
Shadowland: How great are ninjas? Very great. In the nineties.
Fear Itself: How do we, as a people, live with the anxiety of belonging to a culture on the brink of holistic revolutionary upheaval? Why, we personify our problems as monsters and have them hit each other with hammers, of course!
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Bass, I think that Bendis style of deus machina is more prolific to event comics than just showing up in Bendis stories, because of audience expectation, editorial control, or just the writers involved being conditioned to write a certain type of superhero story. I'm of the mind that a great deal of event comics have wonderful high concepts with a lot of narrative potential. I'm going to focus more on Marvel events, in large part because DC (for better or worse) go for event stories with lower social relevance, creating stories with lower ambition but that come closer to hitting their mark. But I can't think of many Marvel events that didn't have potential. The problem is, the writers either don't have the chops, the leverage, or the ambition to really explore these ideas, at least not while giving the majority of superhero readers what they want. So they start writing these stories about high minded themes, then when they realize they aren't really telling a story about those themes, the only recourse to finish the story is some implausible deus ex.

House of M: What is the nature of humanity on the brink of post-humanism. Who cares? A wizard did it.
Civil War: Where should the line between personal liberty and public safety fall? Oh... Wait... Never mind. One side just gave up.
Secret Invasion: Who do you trust? Well, not those green guys in colorful costumes shooting ray guns everywhere.
Dark Reign/Siege: How far can we ethically go in the pursuit of safety and where does the balance lie between the personal virture and the policy effectiveness of our elected/appointed representatives? Oh, one crazy dude hit another crazy dude? Well, that settles that...
Shadowland: How great are ninjas? Very great. In the nineties.
Fear Itself: How do we, as a people, live with the anxiety of belonging to a culture on the brink of holistic revolutionary upheaval? Why, we personify our problems as monsters and have them hit each other with hammers, of course!

It's worse than that in two ways. (Bear in mind, when I say 'artist', I'm including writers.)

1 — There is a school of thought that thinks an artist's job is to ask questions, not to answer them. This is fallacious for two reasons; firstly because the artist will determine what the question is and so it's not a societal expectation imposed on the artist but one the artist imposes upon themselves. Secondly, because to ask a question and not answer it is an answer in itself. Bear in mind that if you ask the question, "What is the meaning of life?" and you suggest that "Life is meaningless and absurd", that is an answer, and a profound one. To ask it and not answer is not to say it's meaningless, it's to simply say nothing and therefore, one must ask what reason there is to perform art if not to express oneself? If you have nothing to say, there is nothing to express.

2 — A lot of artists believe that having a meaning or theme to their work is something for academic study and not only unimportant to the telling of story, but undesirable in 'mainstream entertainment' and 'kids comics'. If they do think they need a theme, often the artist is fed on wave of bland, superficial insight into bland, superficial subjects. Your SHADOWLAND concept of "Ninjas" is probably remarkably apt. Jeph Loeb's story arcs on SUPERMAN/BATMAN were all about "How do Superman & Batman think of each other?" Alan Moore doesn't like THE KILLING JOKE because he says it's just about Batman and Joker, and they're not real people. The reason why people love THE KILLING JOKE is because they think it's about how everyone is one step away from going crazy and evil and becoming the Joker. When the comic quite clearly doesn't agree with that.

You'll notice that having themes and answering questions is not something for 'high' art. Alan Moore made a career out of infusing 22-page Superman stories with that. And Pixar does it every year.
 
Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

Here you go:

beforewatchmen7.jpg
beforewatchmen6.jpg
beforewatchmen5.jpg
beforewatchmen4.jpg
beforewatchmen3.jpg
beforewatchmen2.jpg
beforewatchmen1.jpg


Via Entertainment Weekly:

Geekdom, get ready to rumble with excitement… or grumble with outrage. Or both. In an announcement sure to ignite a firestorm of fanboy passion and pique, DC Entertainment revealed today that DC Comics will publish a collection of mini-series that will expand upon the world of Watchmen, the influential superhero saga originally released as a 12-issue maxi-series from 1986 to 1987. Marked by bravura storytelling, provocative politics, and gritty violence, Watchmen is best known for deconstructing superhero archetypes embodied by cultural icons like Superman and Batman. (You can read our 2005 oral history about the genesis, creation, and legacy of the series here.) Why might the new comics be controversial? Because Watchmen's widely revered writer, Alan Moore, who has long been at war with DC for any number of reasons, has absolutely nothing to do with them. Branded Before Watchmen, the long-rumored project — which has been on-again/off-again in a variety of forms for years — will be comprised of seven mini-series created by an all-star line-up of talent, including Amanda Conner, who drew the first look at Silk Spectre posted here. Your roll call:
  • Rorschach (four issues) The vicious urban vigilante with an ink blot mask. Written by Eisner Award winner Brian Azzarello of 100 Bullets fame, with art by Lee Bermejo.
  • The Comedian (six issues) Jackass jokester turned amoral super-soldier. Written by Azzarello, art by J.G. Jones.
  • Dr. Manhattan (four issues) Blue and nude atomic-power superman, profoundly detached from humanity. Written by J. Michael Straczynski, a superstar comics scribe equally known for his TV and film work (Babylon 5, Clint Eastwood's 2009 film Changeling), with art by Adam Hughes.
  • Nite Owl (four issues) Maybe the most relatable of the Watchmen, a second-generation hero with high tech weaponry. Written by Straczynski, art by Andy Kubert and his father, the legendary Joe Kubert.
  • Ozymandias (six issues) Super-smart, mega-wealthy, scary-ambitious. Written by another living legend (and original Watchmen editor) Len Wein, art by Jae Lee.
  • The Minutemen (six issues) The founding fathers of Watchmen's superhero universe. Written and drawn by Darwyn Cooke, whose recent work includes acclaimed comic adaptations Donald E. Westlake's Parker crime novels.
  • Silk Spectre (four issues) The daughter of a pioneering female superhero, raised to be her mother's replacement. Written by Cooke, art by Conner.
Wein will also write a two-page back-up story that will run in each issue of each series called "Curse of the Crimson Corsair" with art by Watchmen's colorist, John Higgins. Once each series has completed its run, DC will wrap up the initiative with a single issue entitled Before Watchmen: Epilogue, featuring contributions of several different writers and artists. The first issue of the first mini-series will drop this summer, title and date TBD. From there, new issues will roll out each week. In a joint statement, DC Entertainment co-publishers Dan DiDio and Jim Lee say the reason why the company is launching Before Watchmen now is because "it's our responsibility as publishers to find new ways to keep all of our characters relevant. … After twenty five years, the Watchmen are classic characters whose time has come for new stories to be told." (Note: The Watchmen trade paperback remains one of the industry's best-selling "graphic novels" despite the lack of new material since the comic's original publication, and was so even before director Zack Snyder's epic movie adaptation in 2009.)

There's more, including and interview with Cooke, and they ended the article with the panel where Jon tells Adrian, "nothing ever ends".

I'm tired of the outrage over this. I'll read it.
 

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