Ourchair's Awesome Anime Thread

SSJmole said:
Dragonball Z had some great stories and characters. You say there is always someone more powerful same with comics. They need bigger threats all the time or it wouldn't work.
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Heroes with continuing stories don't need 'bigger' threats. Having continously bigger and bigger threats do serve a purpose, but they yield diminishing dramatic returns. Once Spider-Man's defeated Galactus singlehandedly in thumb wrestling then you've pretty much got nowhere to go. What the better writers do is vary the dimension of increasingly powerful villains with the angles at which they threaten the hero.

The Sentinel program introduces mechanical vigilance against the perceived social ill of the mutant population, whereas Magneto plays up the idea that introducing a new demographic can threaten the status quo in ways that are 'negative' when compared to Professor X's benevolent ideals. Venom is essentially a broken promise between Parker and the symbiote --- the former rejected an offer of great power and the latter now uses its hate to fuel others, which is a marked difference from the personal family-like connection between Parker and the Osborns.

Different angles, you see? It's not about 'the biggest threat we've ever faced', but rather an 'enemy unlike any he's faced before' --- a new challenge to either a hero's powers and abilities or his emotions and psychology.

Dragon Ball suffers from the fact that they just try to continously top each threat with a bigger and bigger threat, and this is usually solved by continuously increasing the power levels of the hero in question. Which is dramatically interesting the first few times, but when you do it over a span of 11 years worth of material, then things get stupid really fast.
 
ourchair said:
Dragon Ball suffers from the fact that they just try to continously top each threat with a bigger and bigger threat, and this is usually solved by continuously increasing the power levels of the hero in question. Which is dramatically interesting the first few times, but when you do it over a span of 11 years worth of material, then things get stupid really fast.
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That's because like I mentioned in my post there are 100s maybe even 1000s of themes mixed in. One of those themes is and as shown in dragon ball Martel Arts and training to be the best.

where as people will look at and think like you said it's always about topping the previous villain.

However it's not. It shows you what you can do if you put your mind too it and work hard. look at how the main villains were defeated

- Vegeta = Vegeta defeated goku but goku proved that if you don't give up you can beat anyone and with last once of strength fired a weak (compaired with later versions) Spirit bomb that Krillen had to throw and gohan had to deflect. That showed team work and not giving up can in fact beat the tougher person.

- Frieza = Goku killed after going super sayain but had freiza of finished him fast he would of won. This showed that arrogance can cost you the fight and showed goku rise up to be more powerful than anyone thought showing the underdog can win

- Cell = Gohan beat him with last bit of strength but only because Vegeta blasted cell. This showed anyone can be redeemed and you don't need to be the goody type to be hero. Also showed Gohan become more powerful than his father proving age and experience do not always win the fight and the young person can win despite their inherent drawbacks something we don't get and see that children can be stronger physically and emotionally than we give them credit for.

- Buu - Spirit bomb using all the engegy of everyone which like I mentioned before if everyone helps stop the evil in the world in can be a better place.

It is not just about the bigger threats. I understand people taking it a face value but you are not supposed to. You are meant to see the lesions learned and see the fights as Martel Arts fights with the best fighters.

See there are many many themes as I said before there is religion , Science fiction , Martel Arts epic , comedy , love , betrayal , redemption and much much more

If you take it at face value you will not enjoy it or see how it is an epic story and very very well done. It's based on Journey to the West which if you have not read it is a legendary , Buddhist Epic. Dragon ball takes that and does it in away kids can understand , Adults can enjoy and adding western themes like time machines and space travel that are in most of popular fiction , Let's us enjoy it as well.


Now I am not in away saying you shouldn't hate it I'm just saying look beneath the "drawn out fights" and the "bigger badder enemy" and look at the subtext , the metaphor and you will see it possibly one of THE greatest things written.

Since they started merging western and eastern themes together many more have come along and tried to do the same. Not saying dragon ball did it first just the best.

Now i'll use the Anime titles to explain the next part better. As well as all that from start to end of dragon ball we see a great journey and we see little innocent goku growing up and it's done , best way to describe it as , like very eastern legend to it.

Ok it's taken if the country it started in then they see thing in western culture like "Supereman" and "terminator" and add things from out side the eastern myths to Dragonball Z. The Start of Z marks the start of where it mixes different religions.

It had the Buddhist part then adds that goku came from above and saves mankind which adds this christen ideal and combines our legends with theres and makes for very get Mythology mixed with action vibe to it.

look at "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" that shows common things in the hero of myths and you'll notice it all applies to dragon ball. That helps the mythical feel to it a lot.

Now Anime like beyblade , pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh I could understand the criticism as they were not made to be mythical but just to help sell games , cards , spinning tops and other things.

But Dragonball z If you see it as just big fights and flash and stronger bad guys to me that means you don't understand it. That is ok not insulting you for it I just ask you try it and try to understand everything in it and if you don't like then , then ok no harm done but if you don't give it a fair try then I honestly can say you are missing out on one of the greatest pieces of fiction of our time.

I would even put Dragon ball manga over lord of the rings and that is my favourite book of all time.
 
I was watchin it thinkin the whole time na this cant be right, this show is so nice. Then when it actually got to the bit (you know which bit im on about) with Nina and Alexander i felt so sad :cry:
 
Dragonball is just mindless fun as an anime. As a manga, it's a pretty good martial arts book until it becomes Z. Then, its not much different then the anime, other than the fights lasting much shorter than the ridiculously prolonged fights in the anime. It can also be pretty funny.

I grew up with DB/DBZ so I have a soft spot for it.
 
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Get your Dragonballs correct here

Dragonball was a good anime. They had a quest, they had tournaments, and the characters were ina state of growing.

Dragonball Z was great in the first saga. Then went downhill pretty quickly during the Nama saga, and then tanked in the Cell. Never saw the Majin Buu saga.

Dragonball GT was atrocious
 
Ultimate Houde said:
Dragonball GT was atrocious
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This I 100% agree with.

I watched and bought all dvds ect... because it was db but it was done badly. Too many plot holes and things that never should of happened plus it was done so badly characters like Pan were just annoying and most of the plots and fights were just horrible.

Just like the movies (even if a couple of them were good)
 
JonnyFreeze said:
I was watchin it thinkin the whole time na this cant be right, this show is so nice. Then when it actually got to the bit (you know which bit im on about) with Nina and Alexander i felt so sad :cry:
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I know man, kills me inside everytime I think about, remember that its not the only sad thing that will happen (probably the saddest though), maybe except that one funeral scene (you know the one) that always get to me
Ultimate Houde said:
Get your Dragonballs correct here

Dragonball was a good anime. They had a quest, they had tournaments, and the characters were ina state of growing.

Dragonball Z was great in the first saga. Then went downhill pretty quickly during the Nama saga, and then tanked in the Cell. Never saw the Majin Buu saga.

Dragonball GT was atrocious
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I liked the cell saga (once he got to his final form) I liked it a lot, would of been a good way of ending the series, cause Buu was really stupid, could have been much better.
 
oh man they changed the theme song at episode 14 :(
i had so much fun singing along
 
JonnyFreeze said:
oh man they changed the theme song at episode 14 :(
i had so much fun singing along
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I love ALL the theme songs. I'm actually surprised about that, because with most long-running anime series, I tend to favor one theme song over another, but for FMA I generally like all the opening sequences.

What I like about Porno Graffitti (they performed the first opening, "Melissa") is that they have a very big band approach to rock --- fanfare-playing brass instruments and all --- that distinguishes their work. They also did the second opening to Great Teacher Onizuka, "Hitori no Yoru", which I think is doubly awesome for the fact that it has a very nice animated sequence to go with it. Incidentally, that anime has such ****ty in-episode animation quality that you're better off buying the manga (though to the anime's credit it is VERY faithful to the manga).

As for L'arc~en~Ciel --- the most internationally popular of the groups that have contributed music to FMA --- they have a broad range that covers hardcore rock to ballad pop that makes their albums enjoyable for at least more than two songs. I think it also helps that the lead vocalist, Hyde, has a very nice fluid voice that's easy to listen to. They did "Ready Steady Go", the second opening. They're also known anime fanboys, so they've contributed stuff like "Blurry Eyes" to DNA2, and "Fourth Avenue Cafe" to Rurouni Kenshin aka Samurai X, and "Driver's High" to Great Teacher Onizuka, as well as contributing two songs, "Promised Land" and "Link" to the Fullmetal Alchemist movie.

My favorite opening of the bunch, "UNDO" comes from COOL JOKE. They're an indie group that received much exposure due to being featured in FMA, so they recently signed to Sony Music Japan because of it. I like UNDO not just for its semi-power punk rhythm, but because the lyrics best reflect my favorite themes of the series --- childhood innocence, sworn promises and burned pasts --- that make me genuinely feel for the plight of the protagonists.

The fourth opening, "Rewrite" by Asian Kung-Fu Generation, is the one I probably include the most in Japanese rock mixes. When I make J-rock mixes, they tend to favor more garagesque indie rock groups like Chirinuruwowaka and Bugy Craxone that have such a cacophonous wild edge to them, that I quickly find that I'm repeating some bands. Since I try to avoid letting one band get more than two tracks in a mix, I throw in "Rewrite" because it has such a hard-kicking feel to it that matches with them, but differentiated with a more glossy 'mainstream' finish to it. I also favor the song because it enters the series at a point when all the subplots are tying together for a final climax, and its intensity matches the feel that the narrative is taking on at that point.

I'm not as big a fan of the closing songs, mostly because the last half of the series uses "I Will", by Sowelu and "Motherland" by Crystal Kay because they're unremarkable Japanese slow-pop/R&B numbers, which I find can be very generic. I mean, they all sound like early 2000s Utada Hikaru, and I've kind of outgrown that stuff. However, the first closing theme, "Kesenai Tsumi", by goth-rock girlie Nana Kitade is very very awesome and I find that I can apply it to a wide range of mix CDs.

...

Japanese rock is very awesome. I should cross-post this into the Music thread.

(all band names and song-titles I put into boldtype are highly recommended)
 
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actually now that i am a couple episodes deeper i like the new opening and ending musics! :D
im watching this with english subs. is anyone watching it with english dub? i should imagine the dub really sucks ***
 
JonnyFreeze said:
actually now that i am a couple episodes deeper i like the new opening and ending musics! :D
im watching this with english subs. is anyone watching it with english dub? i should imagine the dub really sucks ***
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The dubs are okay.

I'm actually a lot more forgiving about dubs than most hardcore anime fans, but I think it has some of its strong points. It's VERY difficult to try to transmute Edward's personality into an American voice without it becoming more 'obnoxious' than he's already meant to be, but I think Vic Minogna does passably.

I'd say the strongest performers would have to be Aaron Dismuke, who plays Alphonse and was actually ten years old when he recorded his performance. In spite of his age, he's remarkably adept at channeling Alphonse's emotions and personality and comes off as the strongest in displaying his angst and frustrations. He's REALLY REALLY REALLY good.

I think the only performer who just manages to outshine that is Christopher Sabat, who plays Armstrong. He manages the comedic elements of the character very well, but also does some of the serious moments with surprising intensity.

It's very hard to find English dub voices who can manage both in the same character, and that's a valuable asset because anime does tend to feature characters who are written as a schizophrenic split between comical and serious. He outshines Dismuke only in terms of skill rather than in total accumulated performances, so overall Dismuke as Alphonse still rates higher for me, even if Sabat is the best actor of them all.
 
"Melissa" by Porno Graffiti is the ****!

I think i will still try to avoid a dubbed version of this show. the only thing ive ever found that was better dubbed was the movie "Bio-zombie"

i must say im really not looking forward to the incoming dubbed version of Keroro Gunsou. I dont think anyone could pull off a decent english version of Keroro`s voice but i guess maybe i could be proven wrong. we`ll see.
 
Ok, I'm going to jump in here for a second, as I just read Mole's posts about Dragonball Z. It is, under no circumstances, a Martial Arts manga/anime. It's guys engulfed in yellow flames flying around and shooting ki blasts at each other. It's very obvious that Akira Toriyama doesn't know anything about martial arts, nor martial art philosophy. Say what you will about the "subtexts" but Dragonball Z is boring, drawn-out and frankly immature story, and after Dragonball ended, it became very obvious that they weren't even trying to tie it in to any sort of message related to the martial arts.

Constantly training, and through hard work becoming stronger? This is not a philosophy related to martial arts, but physical disciplines in general. Honestly, it's great that you manage to enjoy Dragonball Z where the rest of us cannot, and I'm fine with you tieing it to different themes and morals, but do not claim it has something to do with the martial arts.

The only anime I've ever seen that actually had messages pertaining to the martial arts is Cowboy Bebop. And it was only in one episode. Oh, sure there are plenty of "Kungfu/samurai/high school fighting" anime/manga out there, but none of them are actually about fighting, they're about having action that looks cool.
 
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Wade_Wilson said:
Constantly training, and through hard work becoming stronger? This is not a philosophy related to martial arts, but physical disciplines in general. Honestly, it's great that you manage to enjoy Dragonball Z where the rest of us cannot, and I'm fine with you tieing it to different themes and morals, but do not claim it has something to do with the martial arts.
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It *is* related to martial arts to an extent, but I agree that no one should pretend that it somehow makes DBZ deeper than it really is. I mean that principle pretty much describes a narrative trope definitive of shounen anime/manga, so it doesn't exactly 'distinguish' DBZ in any way to make it special or whatever.

Not to be a backseat mod, but I wish all these DBZ arguments (mine included) could be extracted into their own thread. It's kind of getting annoying now.
 
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