Punisher MAX (Ennis #1-60) Discussion *Spoilers*
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thee great one
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moonmaster
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
I read "Barracuda". It was all right. The Barracuda is badass, though. Can't wait for his mini-series next year.
And poor O'Brien. I saw it coming, but still...
I read "Barracuda". It was all right. The Barracuda is badass, though. Can't wait for his mini-series next year.
I yelled "EEWWWW!!!" outloud when he did that. That's just one of those things that just freaks me the **** out.
And poor O'Brien. I saw it coming, but still...
moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
My newest review...
The Punisher
By Moonmaster
Consistency is a very hard thing to achieve nowadays, especially in the comic book industry. Modern comics have been hampered by constant delays and hit or miss writing. During a long tenure on a series, even the best of writers can falter. Yes, consistency is very hard to achieve, but Garth Ennis makes it look easy.
The Irish-born writer got his start writing his ultra-violent magnum opus about religion in America, "Preacher". "Preacher" was a colossal success, and Ennis has been working steadily ever since. He's developed a distinct style, marked by extreme violence, gritty realism, and dark-as-dark-can-get humor. Essentially, Ennis was born to write The Punisher. He got his first crack at the character along side his "Preacher" partner, artist Steve Dillon. But it wasn't until "Marvel Knights Punisher" was cancelled and the series was transitioned to Marvel's mature readers imprint (Marvel MAX) that things really took off.
For those of you who don't know, The Punisher is Frank Castle: A Vietnam vet whose family was gunned down in a mob shoot out in 1976. Ever since then, Castle has waged a one-man war against crime, becoming one of the most feared and hated men on the planet. I must admit, I had very little interest in The Punisher before I began reading Ennis's work. I thought of The Punisher as nothing more than a pointless, one-dimensional anti-hero from an archaic age of gun toting psychopaths and gratuitous violence. "Punisher MAX" changed all that.
The series is good. Very good. Each tightly written arc is a hard boiled tale of crime and violence, populated by an array of some of the most original characters you're going to see anywhere.
Ennis has a particular talent for writing villains, villains that you just love to hate. He goes all out to show you exactly how justified The Punisher is in getting rid of these people. There's Nicky Cavella, a twisted mobster who killed his parents as a child and is willing to go to unspeakable extremes to destroy Frank Castle. There are the human traffickers from Eastern Europe who sell teenage girls into prostitution and murder children. There's Barracuda, a seven-foot-tall monster of a man with an affinity for offensive orthodontia and watching people be eaten alive by tiger sharks. They're all awful people who receive equally awful "punishments".
But of all the cast members, none is more complexly written than the star of the series. Garth Ennis took a simple, revenge-driven killer into something much, much more fascinating. "Punisher MAX" was preceded by a mini-series called "Born", billed as "the real origin of The Punisher". This mini-series focused on the one factor that so many writers seem to have overlooked. Frank Castle is a Vietnam vet.
Ennis has shown his love for war stories, especially those set in Vietnam, many times before. "Born" brings Ennis's talent for writing real, hard-edged war stories to Captain Frank Castle's last days at war. And in this story, we find out the true nature of the man that would be The Punisher, the real drive behind his war. In the jungles of Vietnam, Frank Castle discovered that he enjoyed killing, and that he was very good at it. By the time the war was nearing it's end, he found himself dreading the return to normalcy and peace. For these reasons, he made a deal. He made a deal with something dark, and much bigger than he or any man. He would be able to continue to do what he does best, but he would have to pay a price. That price was his family. The Punisher is not who he is by necessity, but by choice.
This kind of brilliant writing and characterization is only hampered by the art, which has always been a sore point when it comes to the series. The artists have generally ranged from decent, to near-intolerable. What makes the art even more painful are the brilliant covers by Tim Bradstreet, which sport some of the most magnificently photo-realistic detail that you're ever bound to see. One can only hope that the rumors of Bradstreet doing an entire story in the future turn out to be true.
Despite the ugly visuals, "Punisher MAX" is one of the most consistently excellent books being published today, and arguably the best thing Marvel Comics is publishing as of now. The current arc, "Man of Stone" is wrapping up right now and Volume 6: "Barracuda" was released earlier this month. This book is addictive, and if you start reading you won't be able to stop. But be warned: This book is rough with a capital R. You'd be hard pressed to find a more gruesomely violent or expletive-filled book (And if you did, it would probably be something else written by Garth Ennis). It's a great read though, and if you can stomach it, it's well worth picking up.
My newest review...
The Punisher
By Moonmaster
Consistency is a very hard thing to achieve nowadays, especially in the comic book industry. Modern comics have been hampered by constant delays and hit or miss writing. During a long tenure on a series, even the best of writers can falter. Yes, consistency is very hard to achieve, but Garth Ennis makes it look easy.
The Irish-born writer got his start writing his ultra-violent magnum opus about religion in America, "Preacher". "Preacher" was a colossal success, and Ennis has been working steadily ever since. He's developed a distinct style, marked by extreme violence, gritty realism, and dark-as-dark-can-get humor. Essentially, Ennis was born to write The Punisher. He got his first crack at the character along side his "Preacher" partner, artist Steve Dillon. But it wasn't until "Marvel Knights Punisher" was cancelled and the series was transitioned to Marvel's mature readers imprint (Marvel MAX) that things really took off.
For those of you who don't know, The Punisher is Frank Castle: A Vietnam vet whose family was gunned down in a mob shoot out in 1976. Ever since then, Castle has waged a one-man war against crime, becoming one of the most feared and hated men on the planet. I must admit, I had very little interest in The Punisher before I began reading Ennis's work. I thought of The Punisher as nothing more than a pointless, one-dimensional anti-hero from an archaic age of gun toting psychopaths and gratuitous violence. "Punisher MAX" changed all that.
The series is good. Very good. Each tightly written arc is a hard boiled tale of crime and violence, populated by an array of some of the most original characters you're going to see anywhere.
Ennis has a particular talent for writing villains, villains that you just love to hate. He goes all out to show you exactly how justified The Punisher is in getting rid of these people. There's Nicky Cavella, a twisted mobster who killed his parents as a child and is willing to go to unspeakable extremes to destroy Frank Castle. There are the human traffickers from Eastern Europe who sell teenage girls into prostitution and murder children. There's Barracuda, a seven-foot-tall monster of a man with an affinity for offensive orthodontia and watching people be eaten alive by tiger sharks. They're all awful people who receive equally awful "punishments".
But of all the cast members, none is more complexly written than the star of the series. Garth Ennis took a simple, revenge-driven killer into something much, much more fascinating. "Punisher MAX" was preceded by a mini-series called "Born", billed as "the real origin of The Punisher". This mini-series focused on the one factor that so many writers seem to have overlooked. Frank Castle is a Vietnam vet.
Ennis has shown his love for war stories, especially those set in Vietnam, many times before. "Born" brings Ennis's talent for writing real, hard-edged war stories to Captain Frank Castle's last days at war. And in this story, we find out the true nature of the man that would be The Punisher, the real drive behind his war. In the jungles of Vietnam, Frank Castle discovered that he enjoyed killing, and that he was very good at it. By the time the war was nearing it's end, he found himself dreading the return to normalcy and peace. For these reasons, he made a deal. He made a deal with something dark, and much bigger than he or any man. He would be able to continue to do what he does best, but he would have to pay a price. That price was his family. The Punisher is not who he is by necessity, but by choice.
This kind of brilliant writing and characterization is only hampered by the art, which has always been a sore point when it comes to the series. The artists have generally ranged from decent, to near-intolerable. What makes the art even more painful are the brilliant covers by Tim Bradstreet, which sport some of the most magnificently photo-realistic detail that you're ever bound to see. One can only hope that the rumors of Bradstreet doing an entire story in the future turn out to be true.
Despite the ugly visuals, "Punisher MAX" is one of the most consistently excellent books being published today, and arguably the best thing Marvel Comics is publishing as of now. The current arc, "Man of Stone" is wrapping up right now and Volume 6: "Barracuda" was released earlier this month. This book is addictive, and if you start reading you won't be able to stop. But be warned: This book is rough with a capital R. You'd be hard pressed to find a more gruesomely violent or expletive-filled book (And if you did, it would probably be something else written by Garth Ennis). It's a great read though, and if you can stomach it, it's well worth picking up.
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thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Nice.
Nice.
omega234
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
I agree with all except for the art. Well...outside "Barracuda" anyway. Didn't like the art at all but thanks to the great story, it was easy to overlook. Almost oddly enough, the Punisher is not highly talked about here.
I agree with all except for the art. Well...outside "Barracuda" anyway. Didn't like the art at all but thanks to the great story, it was easy to overlook. Almost oddly enough, the Punisher is not highly talked about here.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
The art is the awesome. I didn't like the art of Barracuda.
She was blown up by a mine? What a lame death. But still powerful with Frank staying with her.
The next issue is going to pwn.
Did anybody else read the X-men special? That was MAX good.
The art is the awesome. I didn't like the art of Barracuda.
She was blown up by a mine? What a lame death. But still powerful with Frank staying with her.
The next issue is going to pwn.
Did anybody else read the X-men special? That was MAX good.
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
FINALLY got caught up on this arc.
O'Brien dead?! Noooooo!
Hiding the razor under his skin - hardcore. Holy crap. I almost puked.
Throwing the baby over the cliff - also hardcore.
This is the coolest book ever.
FINALLY got caught up on this arc.
O'Brien dead?! Noooooo!
Hiding the razor under his skin - hardcore. Holy crap. I almost puked.
Throwing the baby over the cliff - also hardcore.
This is the coolest book ever.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
The conclusion was very awesome.
The opening dialogue was the best in the book yet...
"Be Strong Captain, What Is There To Be Afraid Of? He's Only Death".
And Rawlins got his.
The conclusion was very awesome.
The opening dialogue was the best in the book yet...
"Be Strong Captain, What Is There To Be Afraid Of? He's Only Death".
And Rawlins got his.
omega234
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Rawlins should of known better than to try his little trick with the knife. I also had to respect the way the General went. I thought he might cower when the Punisher was at him but he didn't. Man of stone indeed. Just gave Mr. Castle the facts.
Rawlins should of known better than to try his little trick with the knife. I also had to respect the way the General went. I thought he might cower when the Punisher was at him but he didn't. Man of stone indeed. Just gave Mr. Castle the facts.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
On CBR, Mark Millar said that Punisher and Ex Machina are his favorite comic book series of 2006.
On CBR, Mark Millar said that Punisher and Ex Machina are his favorite comic book series of 2006.
ProjectX2
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Obviously they cut her **** off... and I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing they did. I'm more concerned with why they went to such an extreme... :shock:
Obviously they cut her **** off... and I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing they did. I'm more concerned with why they went to such an extreme... :shock:
omega234
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
The **** I know, but like you, I'm sure that's not the only thing they did either. What did this woman do and what is she going to do these women when she more than likely gets her hands on them? I wonder if even Frank will say "damn".
The **** I know, but like you, I'm sure that's not the only thing they did either. What did this woman do and what is she going to do these women when she more than likely gets her hands on them? I wonder if even Frank will say "damn".
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Do we have a future type Punisher coming?
And the way he handled the kiddie ring. Hardcore.
Do we have a future type Punisher coming?
And the way he handled the kiddie ring. Hardcore.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
This, I think, is one of the best comics I'm reading at the moment. It's just ****ing superb.
This, I think, is one of the best comics I'm reading at the moment. It's just ****ing superb.
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Anybody picked up the first issue of the Barracuda mini? It was great.
Anybody picked up the first issue of the Barracuda mini? It was great.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
#44 was hardcore.
The looks on the kids' faces whose parents Frank killed was creepy as I-don't-know-what. Especially the older one; he was catatonic.
I'm not sure I understand who the woman is at the end sitting at the table eavesdropping on the widows. Maybe I just need ot go back and reread the previous issue...?
#44 was hardcore.
The looks on the kids' faces whose parents Frank killed was creepy as I-don't-know-what. Especially the older one; he was catatonic.
I'm not sure I understand who the woman is at the end sitting at the table eavesdropping on the widows. Maybe I just need ot go back and reread the previous issue...?
thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
"Jenny Cesare" I believe.
This is one of the most enjoyable comics I've ever read. I love it. And the Barracuda mini is superb! It pikcs up where the Barracuda arc finishes - they explain away his death in just a sentence. I love it. ^_____^
"Jenny Cesare" I believe.
This is one of the most enjoyable comics I've ever read. I love it. And the Barracuda mini is superb! It pikcs up where the Barracuda arc finishes - they explain away his death in just a sentence. I love it. ^_____^
Victor Von Doom
Fist of teh Internets.
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Wow.......I just got caught up with the new "Widowmaker" arc. Wow... :shock:
I still have no clue who the ****-less chick is and how she's gonna play into this.
I liked that Ennis actually went back and drew from actual past victims of Frank that we know of and not some random women hellbent on revenge. It makes it easier to connect with them and also how he's beginning to tie in past events from his series.
Now whether or not that helps or hinders the book is yet to be seen. I always liked the fact that each of the arcs were independant and a new reader could come in and pick up wherever they felt like instead of having to read "Up Is Down, Black Is White" in order to get what was behind "Man of Stone". But I guess that's neither here nor there.
Another thing I loved was how Ennis carefully separated the "2 Franks". There's always been 2 sides to Castle. There's the side that carries out the evil necessities in a straight-forward manner like taking out mob bosses with .50cal. Boom and straight to the point. Then there's the sadistic side that takes pleasure in torturing someone because they deserve it. Seeing how kills a man measures how much personal hatred is involved for him. It shows his heart and the part that makes him human.............albeit a bit twisted for his ability to do these things.
And in this difference is what the women take note of and plan to exploit.
On another Punisher note----like Moony and several others who've noted this---Ennis has crafted Frank to not have an actual origin. But instead a man formed by the horrific events in his life. In this aspect, we get actual character development that separates this incarnation of Frank from the one dimensional gun-toting killer in the past.
I've noticed thru the series that Frank was actually on the way to caring again looked to be on the road to humanity once again with O'Brien. Whether he wanted to admit it or not---he developed feelings for her. Her death hit him (which I expect will be played out in the future). So the character seemed to grow, and just when you thought it looked like he might actually stop what he's doing and could possibly have a life again---the one thing in the world he cared about was killed. Thus driving him back into the darkness.
**** me this book is orgasmic.
And the Barracuda mini is indeed flippin' amazing! Expect more from me on this in the future.
Wow.......I just got caught up with the new "Widowmaker" arc. Wow... :shock:
I still have no clue who the ****-less chick is and how she's gonna play into this.
I liked that Ennis actually went back and drew from actual past victims of Frank that we know of and not some random women hellbent on revenge. It makes it easier to connect with them and also how he's beginning to tie in past events from his series.
Now whether or not that helps or hinders the book is yet to be seen. I always liked the fact that each of the arcs were independant and a new reader could come in and pick up wherever they felt like instead of having to read "Up Is Down, Black Is White" in order to get what was behind "Man of Stone". But I guess that's neither here nor there.
Another thing I loved was how Ennis carefully separated the "2 Franks". There's always been 2 sides to Castle. There's the side that carries out the evil necessities in a straight-forward manner like taking out mob bosses with .50cal. Boom and straight to the point. Then there's the sadistic side that takes pleasure in torturing someone because they deserve it. Seeing how kills a man measures how much personal hatred is involved for him. It shows his heart and the part that makes him human.............albeit a bit twisted for his ability to do these things.
And in this difference is what the women take note of and plan to exploit.
On another Punisher note----like Moony and several others who've noted this---Ennis has crafted Frank to not have an actual origin. But instead a man formed by the horrific events in his life. In this aspect, we get actual character development that separates this incarnation of Frank from the one dimensional gun-toting killer in the past.
I've noticed thru the series that Frank was actually on the way to caring again looked to be on the road to humanity once again with O'Brien. Whether he wanted to admit it or not---he developed feelings for her. Her death hit him (which I expect will be played out in the future). So the character seemed to grow, and just when you thought it looked like he might actually stop what he's doing and could possibly have a life again---the one thing in the world he cared about was killed. Thus driving him back into the darkness.
**** me this book is orgasmic.
And the Barracuda mini is indeed flippin' amazing! Expect more from me on this in the future.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
It's a damn fine comic. I love how you say Ennis has 'deepened' the Punisher by saying 'the focal point of his becoming the Punisher is not the death of his family', and showing that Frank has always had these tendencies.
I love it because you say he 'deepened' it - but look at what he did. He lessened it. He said, "you don't know how Frank went crazy. He's kinda always been this way."
He's LESSENED the explanation to his motivation for killing, yet you think he's DEEPENED it.
And deepened it he has, for this simple reason: YOU, the reader of the comic, now involve yourself more fully into The Punisher's frame of mind as you draw from yourself the conclusions for his drive. What made Punisher the Punisher? The death of his family? The Vietnam war? Or that incident that occurred when he was a kid?
Ennis has magnificently enriched the character by demonstrating a simple truth - one event does not make a person. There is no 'specific' reason, no sole cause, that people do the things they do for what they want.
And he understands that to involve an audience, you leave the mystery to motivations. You state clearly WHAT the characters want, but you leave their reasons for wanting it, vague.
I can't stand it when someone goes, "Oh, I kill people because I was felt up as a kid" or "I want to save the world because my friend died" or whatever.
The mystery of characters' motivations is integral. The Byronic hero is a mystery man, because, characters are not people - they're works of art. They can't stand up to scrutinity. So the mystery is needed to keep them interesting, and to draw the audience further into them.
If you explain the motivation, you not only alienate the audience (who rightly feel as if, "why am I even here?"), but you trivialise the character by boiling them down to a single event. Think about it - when is Spider-Man annoying? When he goes, "I'm Spidey because my uncle died. My uncle died and it was my fault." Get over it! "I'm Batman because my parents died. This makes me Batman. I'm sad." Get over it! They're ******* whiners, their motivation is bollocks.
However, such events can be used incredibly well, not to explain motivation, but to deepen and enrich conflicts - look at "Up is Down and Black is White" to see the use of backstory to create story and conflict. Punisher doesn't ***** about why he's Punisher. Now, while it's true, Spidey is a different character and maybe, would complain about his lot - Ennis' Punisher talks just as much as Spidey, and his thoughts are not explaining his motivation. It's counterpoint narration designed to add to a progressing, turning, story. The whining of Spidey (or Batman) halts narrative drive, stagnating the story as the character explains why he does what he does - resulting in the audience stepping out of the character and feeling for the character. But before, they were feeling WITH the character.
I find this title exhilerating to read.
It's a damn fine comic. I love how you say Ennis has 'deepened' the Punisher by saying 'the focal point of his becoming the Punisher is not the death of his family', and showing that Frank has always had these tendencies.
I love it because you say he 'deepened' it - but look at what he did. He lessened it. He said, "you don't know how Frank went crazy. He's kinda always been this way."
He's LESSENED the explanation to his motivation for killing, yet you think he's DEEPENED it.
And deepened it he has, for this simple reason: YOU, the reader of the comic, now involve yourself more fully into The Punisher's frame of mind as you draw from yourself the conclusions for his drive. What made Punisher the Punisher? The death of his family? The Vietnam war? Or that incident that occurred when he was a kid?
Ennis has magnificently enriched the character by demonstrating a simple truth - one event does not make a person. There is no 'specific' reason, no sole cause, that people do the things they do for what they want.
And he understands that to involve an audience, you leave the mystery to motivations. You state clearly WHAT the characters want, but you leave their reasons for wanting it, vague.
I can't stand it when someone goes, "Oh, I kill people because I was felt up as a kid" or "I want to save the world because my friend died" or whatever.
The mystery of characters' motivations is integral. The Byronic hero is a mystery man, because, characters are not people - they're works of art. They can't stand up to scrutinity. So the mystery is needed to keep them interesting, and to draw the audience further into them.
If you explain the motivation, you not only alienate the audience (who rightly feel as if, "why am I even here?"), but you trivialise the character by boiling them down to a single event. Think about it - when is Spider-Man annoying? When he goes, "I'm Spidey because my uncle died. My uncle died and it was my fault." Get over it! "I'm Batman because my parents died. This makes me Batman. I'm sad." Get over it! They're ******* whiners, their motivation is bollocks.
However, such events can be used incredibly well, not to explain motivation, but to deepen and enrich conflicts - look at "Up is Down and Black is White" to see the use of backstory to create story and conflict. Punisher doesn't ***** about why he's Punisher. Now, while it's true, Spidey is a different character and maybe, would complain about his lot - Ennis' Punisher talks just as much as Spidey, and his thoughts are not explaining his motivation. It's counterpoint narration designed to add to a progressing, turning, story. The whining of Spidey (or Batman) halts narrative drive, stagnating the story as the character explains why he does what he does - resulting in the audience stepping out of the character and feeling for the character. But before, they were feeling WITH the character.
I find this title exhilerating to read.
nigma
Well-Known Member
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
through that whole rant you made Bass, all i could think of was BKV and why i loved his Runaways...and i agree with ya and VVD. what Ennis also does best is he provides the story from more than just one viewpoint.
you don't just see it from Franks side, you see how scared people really are of Frank and what there trying to do.
he did the same thing with Preacher, he gave you J. Custers side. and also brought you into the mind of the twisted freak he was up against that arc.
through that whole rant you made Bass, all i could think of was BKV and why i loved his Runaways...and i agree with ya and VVD. what Ennis also does best is he provides the story from more than just one viewpoint.
you don't just see it from Franks side, you see how scared people really are of Frank and what there trying to do.
he did the same thing with Preacher, he gave you J. Custers side. and also brought you into the mind of the twisted freak he was up against that arc.
Ninja4peace
Well-Known Member
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
I have a question regarding continuity, basically Ennis wrote punisher when it was on marvel knights and now he's on it on MAX, but is it a continuation, and is Punisher MAX taking place in 616? or is it in it's own MAX verse with some of the other titles like Cage and Fury, or is it like Ennis-verse?..I'm basically asking a good place to start, I read a couple of the one shots (tyger and the end) and I love preacher so I want to get into this, just wondered if I jump in to Punisher MAX will that spoil the marvel knights run..I doubt it but I want to make sure.
I have a question regarding continuity, basically Ennis wrote punisher when it was on marvel knights and now he's on it on MAX, but is it a continuation, and is Punisher MAX taking place in 616? or is it in it's own MAX verse with some of the other titles like Cage and Fury, or is it like Ennis-verse?..I'm basically asking a good place to start, I read a couple of the one shots (tyger and the end) and I love preacher so I want to get into this, just wondered if I jump in to Punisher MAX will that spoil the marvel knights run..I doubt it but I want to make sure.
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
Continuity is kind of tricky, but Punisher MAX is pretty much stand alone. It's basically Ennis's versions of characters, so it doesn't affect regular 616 continuity or whatever.
Continuity is kind of tricky, but Punisher MAX is pretty much stand alone. It's basically Ennis's versions of characters, so it doesn't affect regular 616 continuity or whatever.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*
But isn't all placed in 616, even though it stays away from what goes on everywhere else?
