Spider-Man Stan Lee to write intro in MK: Spider-Man HC.

ProjectX2 said:
It just goes to show how Norman is one of Spidey's best villains.

The man's been in more stories than Wolverine, he was a good villain then it was ballsed up. And the timing between the finale & Sins Past wasn't exactly great. Nor the beginning & Thin Air.
 
Understandable that the timing was really bad, but the story still kicks ***, and it'll kick yours any day!


*Runs away*
 
icemastertron said:
Understandable that the timing was really bad, but the story still kicks ***, and it'll kick yours any day!


*Runs away*

See my earlier post deconstructing the stories many, many flaws then read Bass's better one right after it. Now keep runnin!
 
Johnny Bravo said:
See my earlier post deconstructing the stories many, many flaws then read Bass's better one right after it. Now keep runnin!
*Comes back*

Keep running? Just went to get a juice. And Bass is wrong. And so are you.

This whole run kicked so much *** from Sunday, it's crazy. Perfect storytelling, great action, good cameos, all goods everywhere. Not saying it's perfect, but it was great. Millar writes a fantastic Spider-Man.
 
...

It's better when you don't tie it down with other titles. I only read MKSM and didn't care about other titles.

Comic geeks.
 
Bass said:
I have to agree with Johnny Bravo. I was very underwhelmed by it.

While there was some very exciting moments (Frank Cho's depiction of Spider-Man crashing through a flying van to save the driver being the best one, or Vulture preying on Spidey in the hospital) the whole run just was poorly plotted.

As you say, the threat to Aunt May didn't work because, guess what, we know she won't die. Millar should've had May been found at the end of the first four issue arc and used the kidnapping to build off the next 8 issues. Actually progress the story.

Also, the whole "ruling class creating super villains to distract super heroes" is a very nice idea but I think, completely inappropriate for Spider-Man. Spider-Man is not a political hero. He is not a big player in a global position. He is a normal guy (albeit, he's married to a super model, but we'll let that slip) who puts on tights to help people because his uncle was killed by a burglar and he blames himself for it, but try as he might, most people don't like him and his biggest nemesis is a local newspaper that hates him for no apparent reason.

Do you think the ruling class give a **** about him? Certainly not. He's not on their radar.

Now, imagine, same idea, but its Captain America. Here is this guy, a living legend of the second World War and a paragon of virtues. He believes he's helping the world, but only to discover that the flag he wears is a target, and the true criminals trample over it every day, messing up lives just to keep him out of the picture. His appearance jump started this whole programme and he's not a paragon of virtures, but a catalyst of woe. The flag he wears becomes a shackle.

It means a lot more to Cap, but it was wasted on Spider-Man as a piece of throwaway exposition. Shame. He could've saved it for Wolverine or DC's JSA, where I think it would've worked too. Or even The Ultimates.

The biggest problem I had with it were the horrendous amount of cop-outs and cheap turns to solve Spidey's woes.

Spider-Man, barely alive, is in a hospital with his mask off. The staff have covered his face in bandages, so his secret identity will be safe. But the Vulture (the guy who put him there) shows up and stands on the edge of his bed in a sweet black costume. The nurse says, "How can you do this? The man's on his death bed!" and Vulture replies, "I'm a vulture. It's what we do." Vulture picks up Spidey (who has no webshooters) and flies him out into New York city, undoes the bandages, is disgusted to discover the Spider-Man is a nobody, just a normal guy... and drops him over Manhattan. Spider-Man plummets, only in a hospital gown and bandages, his body broken and bruised, his head dizzy and dulled, and his web-shooters are gone.

How does he survive?

Black Cat swings by and picks him up.

Venom has found a new host, and is trying to kill Spider-Man to prove just how bad-*** he is. Spider-Man's been run down lately because ever since the Bugle gave a huge dollar reward for Spidey's real name, he's been chased around all over the place. Spidey manages to escape from Venom, but immediately Venom manages sneaks up behind him, and punches Spidey in the back and pulls out his heart.

How does he survive?

It turns out it wasn't Spidey but a guy trying to get the Bugle cash, and Millar just placed the panels together to purposely create this cheap surprise of a nobody getting killed.

Spidey's been hounded by all manner of people trying to cash in on the Bugle reward, which is very aggravating since he's trying to find his possibly dead but certainly kidnapped Aunt May.

How does Spider-Man get the Bugle off his back?

He takes photos of J Jonah Jameson's son, then photos of himself as Spider-Man in his son's appartment when he was out, to make it look like JJJ's son is Spider-Man. JJJ accepts this without question despite the sheer number of fakes he's had ever since the reward was put up and goes pro-Spidey.

(Though there is a nice touch with what Spidey does with the reward money. Very, very well done bit of writing on Millar's part.)

Spider-Man's Aunt May has been kidnapped, and he discovers that she was kidnapped by the Scorpion. The Scorpion did this under the Green Goblin's orders. The Goblin told Scorpion to kidnap May should he get arrested, which we saw happen right at the start of the first issue. The only way to get Aunt May back? Spidey has to break Green Goblin out of prison. Spidey knows that if he agrees, he will be the Goblin's ***** for all time. MJ gets a gun to protect herself and Spidey sends her away. Black Cat comes with Spidey to help him. They burst into the prison, and the alarm goes off and as the guards rally, Spidey and Black Cat manage to break the Green Goblin out of jail. As soon as they're away, Spidey and Black Cat walk into an ambush the Green Goblin set up; The Sinister Twelve have come to kill him. Twelve of Spider-Man's deadliest foes, including the Scorpion who has now bonded to Venom. Twelve against two.

How do Spidey and Black Cat survive?

The Avengers show up out of the blue and beat the crap out of everyone.

The Green Goblin's Sinister Twelve fail against the Avengers, and so he goes, finds MJ, and takes her to the bridge and threatens to throw her off the bridge again for the fourth time this month. Spidey and the Goblin show down, and the Goblin chucks MJ off the bridge. Spidey, confronted once more with Gwen Stacy's death tries to save MJ and fix the mistake he made so long ago - and succeeds in some damn fine style. But the Goblin bears down on him, and he won't tell Spidey where Aunt May is.

How does Spidey and MJ survive?

Doctor Octopus, brainwashed by SHIELD, shows up to beat up the Green Goblin. They fight to a standstill and then, deus ex machina, a lightning bolt hits them and they fall into the River Cliche that surrounds Manhattan.

But wait! What about Aunt May? Where's she?

Yes, it appears Millar has forgotten to. Spidey just goes, "Hmm. Where could she be?" - no new clues, nothing. But he works it out and runs to a cemetary and digs up a coffin. Aunt May's inside, he resuscitates her and she's okay.

I wonder why Spider-Man didn't just do a bit of thinking 12 issues ago when she was kidnapped.

Millar's MK Spidey was a repeating patter of one amazing set up after another, only to be followed by cheap cop-out endings.

Blech.
With that much deus ex machina, you'd think Bendis wrote it.
 
Look, forget all this "power-and-responsibility" crap for a moment and consider the circumstances by which Spidey got his powers.

His life-story and super-hero career has been about chance from the very start. No matter how much he asserts his self-determination, he's bound by the ramifications of completely random events; of certain people being in the right place at the right time (himself) or the wrong time (Uncle Ben; all the rogues created by accident).

And Peter's life has been characterized by grand, repeated deceptions that happen so often, they become routine -- disguising his identity; hiding his abilities; lying about how he gets his Spidey pictures for the Bugle and so forth.

So Millar just took these two themes -- randomness/luck, and grand deception -- and did what he does best: exaggerate them into a completely over-the-top, in-your-face 12-part maxi-arc that plays to all his fancies as a writer. Hence, all the deux ex machina moments, and the over-arcing elite super-villain conspiracy revelation.

I dunno, maybe I'm wilfully overlooking its flaws because I just loved the damn thing so much, but as far as pure, page-turning entertainment goes, Millar's MK Spidey run earns top marks, in my book.
 
compound said:
Look, forget all this "power-and-responsibility" crap for a moment and consider the circumstances by which Spidey got his powers.

His life-story and super-hero career has been about chance from the very start. No matter how much he asserts his self-determination, he's bound by the ramifications of completely random events; of certain people being in the right place at the right time (himself) or the wrong time (Uncle Ben; all the rogues created by accident).

And Peter's life has been characterized by grand, repeated deceptions that happen so often, they become routine -- disguising his identity; hiding his abilities; lying about how he gets his Spidey pictures for the Bugle and so forth.

So Millar just took these two themes -- randomness/luck, and grand deception -- and did what he does best: exaggerate them into a completely over-the-top, in-your-face 12-part maxi-arc that plays to all his fancies as a writer. Hence, all the deux ex machina moments, and the over-arcing elite super-villain conspiracy revelation.

I dunno, maybe I'm wilfully overlooking its flaws because I just loved the damn thing so much, but as far as pure, page-turning entertainment goes, Millar's MK Spidey run earns top marks, in my book.

That's why I like you better than Ourchair.
 
compound said:
Look, forget all this "power-and-responsibility" crap for a moment and consider the circumstances by which Spidey got his powers.

His life-story and super-hero career has been about chance from the very start. No matter how much he asserts his self-determination, he's bound by the ramifications of completely random events; of certain people being in the right place at the right time (himself) or the wrong time (Uncle Ben; all the rogues created by accident).

And Peter's life has been characterized by grand, repeated deceptions that happen so often, they become routine -- disguising his identity; hiding his abilities; lying about how he gets his Spidey pictures for the Bugle and so forth.

So Millar just took these two themes -- randomness/luck, and grand deception -- and did what he does best: exaggerate them into a completely over-the-top, in-your-face 12-part maxi-arc that plays to all his fancies as a writer. Hence, all the deux ex machina moments, and the over-arcing elite super-villain conspiracy revelation.

I dunno, maybe I'm wilfully overlooking its flaws because I just loved the damn thing so much, but as far as pure, page-turning entertainment goes, Millar's MK Spidey run earns top marks, in my book.
For an invisible person, that was very well put. :D
 
icemastertron said:
For an invisible person, that was very well put. :D

I thought he was imaginary. I'm pretty sure Ourchair is the invisible one due to his obsession with the FF.
 
ProjectX2 said:
I thought he was imaginary. I'm pretty sure Ourchair is the invisible one due to his obsession with the FF.
Oh right, my mistake.



And remembering now, Millar said that if anyone asked enough at the signing, he would tell them what Lee wrote for the Forword. Not useful info, but felt like throwing it out there.
 
Ice, when you go to talk to Millar, I hope you say: "I love your work!" and then punch him in the jaw. Then yell: "Damn you and your lies!" then get out a paper-mached Mjolnir, put on an Ultimate Thor costume and yell: "You're reality shuffling ends now Loki!" and kill him.

Mark Millar must die.
 
ProjectX2 said:
Ice, when you go to talk to Millar, I hope you say: "I love your work!" and then punch him in the jaw. Then yell: "Damn you and your lies!" then get out a paper-mached Mjolnir, put on an Ultimate Thor costume and yell: "You're reality shuffling ends now Loki!" and kill him.

Mark Millar must die.
That'd be so awesome to pull of, if it didnt end with me in a lunatic asylum... :lol:
 
icemastertron said:
That'd be so awesome to pull of, if it didnt end with me in a lunatic asylum... :lol:

Well, maybe you don't have to kill him. Just hit him a couple of times with the paper-mached Mjolnir. Give that Scottish ******* some bruises!

Just kidding. I love Mark. Now, if it was Bendis...
 
ProjectX2 said:
Ice, when you go to talk to Millar, I hope you say: "I love your work!" and then punch him in the jaw. Then yell: "Damn you and your lies!" then get out a paper-mached Mjolnir, put on an Ultimate Thor costume and yell: "You're reality shuffling ends now Loki!" and kill him.

Mark Millar must die.
One day Millar's car will crash on the side of the side of the road in a snow bank and I'll find him and bring him back to my home. I'll tell him that I'm his biggest fan and ask him to write me a new story.....and if he ever tries to leave me,....I'll make him pay.

*puts on crazy Kathy Bates mask*
 
Ice said:
Millar posted himself that Stan Lee is going to write the Introduction in the Marvel Knights: Spider-Man Hardcover (Collects issues #1-12, Millar's run). Millar, in a joking manner though serious, is going to have his brother, Bobby- to whom the series was dedicated to, to write the afterword.
GMaster said:
Holy ****. Who needs Stan when youve got Bobby Millar.
Ice said:
His run was better than anything that was going on in USM.
Do you mean Bobby Millar's? I have those issues, they were awesome and consisted entirely of ideas that Mark stole for Wanted.
 

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