The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

[ourchair]

A pox on both camps.

I think the problem with all this discussion of whether or not Ledger deserves an Oscar for his Joker cheapens both his performance AND his death.

His performance is great, but to debate over its Oscar-worthiness is like saying it can only be validated by an Oscar rather than whether or not people appreciated it in the first place.

I think part of the reason that discussion has emerged is BECAUSE Ledger died, and people feel that the only way to validate his tragically cut short path to brilliance is to give him that Oscar, which is ALSO insulting to his death.

 

[Random]

A pox on both camps.

I think the problem with all this discussion of whether or not Ledger deserves an Oscar for his Joker cheapens both his performance AND his death.

His performance is great, but to debate over its Oscar-worthiness is like saying it can only be validated by an Oscar rather than whether or not people appreciated it in the first place.

I think part of the reason that discussion has emerged is BECAUSE Ledger died, and people feel that the only way to validate his tragically cut short path to brilliance is to give him that Oscar, which is ALSO insulting to his death.

Yeah, a lot of this is unavoidable.

Personally I thought Ledger did an amazing job, there have been few performances I've seen that have been as amazing. He cemented the character in cinema villain history. He definitely without a doubt deserves a nomination. Whether he should win I can't say. Mainly due to the fact that I haven't seen many other films this year

 

[Planet-man]

Yeah, a lot of this is unavoidable.

Personally I thought Ledger did an amazing job, there have been few performances I've seen that have been as amazing. He cemented the character in cinema villain history. He definitely without a doubt deserves a nomination. Whether he should win I can't say. Mainly due to the fact that I haven't seen many other films this year

I agree that he cemented the character in cinema villain history, I just don't think he did so through deep acting. I still talking completely about the performance and not the hype or his death or anything. It was a very memorable and catchy performance.

And I agree that while it's sad, most of this is unavoidable. We're talking about a performance that was literally deemed one of the greatest ever before anyone even saw it(at least in terms of internet polling).

 

[Gothamite]

A comment posted on IGN, re: The Dark Knight on Blu-Ray: "HD+DVD IS IN YO HOUSE *****! YOU HEAR THAT ****! YO BLU *** *****ES ARE GOING DOWN! LIKE WAY DOWN, DEAD DOWN! SO DOWN YOU AINT EVEN GONNA KNOW WHICH WAY IS UP! YO ASSES ARE GONNA BE CRYIN TO YO SKANK *** COMPANY OH SONY DONT LET THE BAD MEN HURT US! **** YOU! HD+DVD IS GONNA COME BACK AND WHOOP YO BLU ***!
WHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!"

:lol:

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I agree that he cemented the character in cinema villain history, I just don't think he did so through deep acting. I still talking completely about the performance and not the hype or his death or anything. It was a very memorable and catchy performance.

I think your entire point about somehow Ledger having just done an average job that needed no real acting is invalidated by the fact that he directed each of those hand-held camera films without Nolan in the room.

I just can't deal with your generic concept... The role basically destroyed him, and you're saying anyone could have done it. It legitimately pisses me off every time you bring it up.

 

[Bass]

The role didn't destroy him. He was suffering from insomnia before he got the part of the Joker, which he said (and it seems those who worked with him felt this way too) was the most fun he ever had.

He was an insomniac who wanted to go to sleep during his massage. He accidentally overdosed and tragically passed away. Joker didn't kill him.

Also, his role is completely gimmick-laden and the majority of the character's strength is in the writing.

However - his performance is stellar.

Think of it this, the character is a F1 car. The writer and director spend ages making sure the engine and tires and spoiler and everything works. The actor walks in, and drives it around the track. The writer, director, and the actor all inform the character greatly. And while the character is technically capable of reaching 200mph, the actor is the one who has to get it there. And Heath Ledger, I think, exceeded what the character was built for. The character was awesome long before Ledger got to it, Ledger just made sure no one would forget the race.

It was the best performance in the film, and one of the best movie performances ever... but not necessarily the best acting in the film.

To continue my poor, thin, metaphor; James Gordon is a Honda Civic. It's cool, but not an F1. Gary Oldman brought it in much faster than anyone thought. Oldman wasn't as 'fast' as Ledger, in that sense, but compared to what he was given, he certainly did more to hold so much of the audience so that when he died, everyone's hearts in the cinema sank.

I think, Oldman should get Best Supporting Actor if someone in TDK has to get it. But! I wouldn't think he got 'robbed' if Ledger, or Eckhart got it. (Or nominated, or what have you.) Terrific performances by all.

But then... the Oscars aren't about quality, but rather, about the glamour and glitz of Hollywood. When the two meet, it's terrific. Other times, they'll just give RETURN OF THE KING every Oscar in the world because they didn't want to give anything to the previous two films and have the Oscars dominated by the trilogy. SEVEN got best editing. At least Bardem got an Oscar for NO COUNTRY and oh, look at that, I'm completely rambling on about things I don't really know anything about. *sigh*

 

[SSJmole]

Got the Bluray today and I think I may have loved the film even more the second the time. Also I really love the "Batman unmasked : The Psychology of batman." Which even talks about Riddler , Penguin and Catwoman. It's a pretty interesting special feature.

One disappointment = No deleted scenes on it. I really hoped the Dr. Harleen Quinzel scene that meant to have been filmed (Remember before movie an actress was named, she herself said she was in it and few other things?) was on it. But sadly no. Not been that disappointed with a lack of deleted scene since the Liam Neeson (Qui-Gon Jinn) rumoured scene was not on the episode III dvd (the scene in question features in comic and book of the film with Qui-Gon returning as a ghost to teach Obi and yoda how to do it.)

 

[Bass]

Anniversary editions. :/

 

[Gemini]

Anniversary editions. :/

probably a super-duper-box-set-edition due out next christmas, like the 300 and I am Legend ones that came out recently

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Got the Bluray today and I think I may have loved the film even more the second the time. Also I really love the "Batman unmasked : The Psychology of batman." Which even talks about Riddler , Penguin and Catwoman. It's a pretty interesting special feature.

One disappointment = No deleted scenes on it. I really hoped the Dr. Harleen Quinzel scene that meant to have been filmed (Remember before movie an actress was named, she herself said she was in it and few other things?) was on it. But sadly no. Not been that disappointed with a lack of deleted scene since the Liam Neeson (Qui-Gon Jinn) rumoured scene was not on the episode III dvd (the scene in question features in comic and book of the film with Qui-Gon returning as a ghost to teach Obi and yoda how to do it.)

dude you suck, I have to wait another 8 hours to get it.

 

[SSJmole]

dude you suck, I have to wait another 8 hours to get it.

You don't already have it? Then I think it is you who sucks.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

You don't already have it? Then I think it is you who sucks.

This is true but it's not coming out for another 8 hours.

 

[Random]

I'm going to actually wait till Christmas, due to a lack of presents ideas for the family. Though I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bought it already

One disappointment = No deleted scenes on it. I really hoped the Dr. Harleen Quinzel scene that meant to have been filmed (Remember before movie an actress was named, she herself said she was in it and few other things?) was on it. But sadly no. Not been that disappointed with a lack of deleted scene since the Liam Neeson (Qui-Gon Jinn) rumoured scene was not on the episode III dvd (the scene in question features in comic and book of the film with Qui-Gon returning as a ghost to teach Obi and yoda how to do it.)

I knew there was going to be no deleted scenes on my first viewing. I mean look at the film, what could have cut out?

 

[SSJmole]

I knew there was going to be no deleted scenes on my first viewing. I mean look at the film, what could have cut out?

What I mentioned for one

 

[Random]

What I mentioned for one

Personally I don't think that was ever in there. I can't see it in the timeline, I think the chick was just trying to hype herself for her career, since I never heard anything legitimate about the role.

 

[SSJmole]

Personally I don't think that was ever in there. I can't see it in the timeline, I think the chick was just trying to hype herself for her career, since I never heard anything legitimate about the role.

Ah, I was thinking she would be in it near the end after Joker caught maybe a scene like this :

*cut to Arkham*
Man : "Be careful with this guy, He's nuts."
Dr. Harleen Quinzel : "Don't worry about me"
*She opens door and we see Joker looking at with a grin*
Joker "Hello doctor Quinzel "
*She closes door*

That's where I see it fitting in. After Batman leaves on pod but before the "dent was a hero" end speech. Like they were leaving it open for Jokers return in 3 as they did say he would be in 3 had Heath not died. I figured with his death they removed the scene. That's what I was thinking anyway.

 

[ProjectX2]

Got the Bluray today and I think I may have loved the film even more the second the time. Also I really love the "Batman unmasked : The Psychology of batman." Which even talks about Riddler , Penguin and Catwoman. It's a pretty interesting special feature.

One disappointment = No deleted scenes on it. I really hoped the Dr. Harleen Quinzel scene that meant to have been filmed (Remember before movie an actress was named, she herself said she was in it and few other things?) was on it. But sadly no. Not been that disappointed with a lack of deleted scene since the Liam Neeson (Qui-Gon Jinn) rumoured scene was not on the episode III dvd (the scene in question features in comic and book of the film with Qui-Gon returning as a ghost to teach Obi and yoda how to do it.)

Jonathan Nolan said there was only like two scenes cut. I believe it was pretty much accurate to the script.

Qui-Gon returning as a ghost to teach Obi and yoda how to do it

:lol:

 

[SSJmole]

return as ghost damn you :lol:

 

[J. Agamemnon]

return as ghost damn you :lol:

Patrick Swayzee?

 

[SSJmole]

Patrick Swayzee?

:x I hate you people :lol:

 

[Random]

:x I hate you people :lol:

I find it funny that you do appear to notice what exactly Proj was laughing at.

 

[SSJmole]

I find it funny that you do appear to notice what exactly Proj was laughing at.

Why? After he quoted it then did a :lol: wasn't it obvious?

 

[Random]

Why? After he quoted it then did a :lol: wasn't it obvious?

Ah sorry, I thought you're post after he was you trying to correct a grammar mistake, I need more sleep

 

[Ice]

My Blu-ray DVD has been shipped and will arrive tomorrow!! :rockon:

 

[SSJmole]

My Blu-ray DVD has been shipped and will arrive tomorrow!! :rockon:

Or will it?

 

[Ice]

Or will it?

Damn you! You almost made me spill out my chocolate chip cookie! :lol:

 

[SSJmole]

Damn you! You almost made me spill out my chocolate chip cookie! :lol:

:lol: my work is done.

 

[Planet-man]

I think your entire point about somehow Ledger having just done an average job that needed no real acting is invalidated by the fact that he directed each of those hand-held camera films without Nolan in the room.

Nolan doesn't have anything to do with this.

I'm not saying Ledger was somehow just blindly following direction, I'm saying Ledger came up with a set of mannerisms and speech patterns that I feel were very obvious and easy to do, and did them well, and that's that. That's all.

I've seen nothing to convince me that he came up with the Joker voice after "becoming" the character and then through deep emotional delving realizing that's how the character would talk. I find it far more likely the voice just came out of him first when he was trying to find a creepy and different way of speaking, and then he based the rest of the show around that. It's Occam's Razor to me.

I just can't deal with your generic concept... The role basically destroyed him, and you're saying anyone could have done it. It legitimately pisses me off every time you bring it up.

Oh, please.

"The role" didn't destroy him. His long history of personal mental health problems destroyed him. This is like saying The Catcher In The Rye is automatically a powerful book because it drove a man to kill John Lennon! It may have been a catalyst, but eventually anything could have driven those unbalanced people off the edge.

The role didn't destroy him. He was suffering from insomnia before he got the part of the Joker, which he said (and it seems those who worked with him felt this way too) was the most fun he ever had.

He was an insomniac who wanted to go to sleep during his massage. He accidentally overdosed and tragically passed away. Joker didn't kill him.

Also, his role is completely gimmick-laden and the majority of the character's strength is in the writing.

However - his performance is stellar.

Think of it this, the character is a F1 car. The writer and director spend ages making sure the engine and tires and spoiler and everything works. The actor walks in, and drives it around the track. The writer, director, and the actor all inform the character greatly. And while the character is technically capable of reaching 200mph, the actor is the one who has to get it there. And Heath Ledger, I think, exceeded what the character was built for. The character was awesome long before Ledger got to it, Ledger just made sure no one would forget the race.

It was the best performance in the film, and one of the best movie performances ever... but not necessarily the best acting in the film.

For once, you and I are in complete agreement.

(Se7en quote!)

 

[E]

My Blu-ray DVD has been shipped and will arrive tomorrow!! :rockon:

UC Store FTW!!!!11

Mine is on the way too, although I just got 2 day shipping so I probably won't get it until Wednesday.

It's OK. I have the greatest invention ever and the movie downloaded in 720p. I can watch it any time.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Bah, I am cooler than everyone anyways because I already have this on DVD. Came in the mail early.

Also: Planet-Man is still crazy, but now that i am not in a bad mood, i won't be a ***** about it. :heart: