Ultimate Iron Man #4 (Spoilers)

Shi_Vral said:
Right, but who says the neural pathway is the wire instead of the cable?
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I would say the name "pathway" would make it pretty clear.

Shi_Vral said:
But, this, of course, is very off topic for this thread.
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Especially since Card hasn't gone anywhere near this far in depth to explain what is already a piss-poor explanation.
 
*Throws popcorn in mouth*

*Slirps soda* (It's Wild Cherry Pepsi)


Man, what a discussion. Carry on boyos. :D


I haven't read the issue yet. Picking it up tomorrow.
 
No, serriously, a cable is 8 twisted pairs of cable. The cable plugs into the back of your computer, and then into you router or cable modem or whatever, and creates a pathway from your computer to the internet. So, why would bigger neural pathways not be able to carry more than one thing at a time, speeding up his response time, making hima faster thinker than any human?
 
Shi_Vral said:
I asked because he said so I was just trying to gauge if this is based off of these four issues, or some of Card's other writing as well.

Undiferentiated Neural Tissue is a precursor of stem cells. It gathers into globs called neurospheres which eventually turn into stem cells. So, spread throughout Tony's body are globs of cells that haven't made up thier minds (haha, get it) as to what they want to be. So, his brain is no bigger than anyone else's, he's just got stem cell factories all over his body. So, maybe the brain cancer is some of these stem cells growing, looking like cancer (because no one else has a body like Tony's) and so the doctor's tell him its a brain tumor, and he trusts them because their doctors.

I understand that a lot of people grew up with Iron Man being the way he was. That's great, good for you. My dad started collecting comics when he was a little kid. He had a copy of one of the first X-Men comics, but because it was before they made action figures, he cut the characters out like paper dolls, and played with those. I've read the old stories, I know and love the old stories. I read the Ultimate comics to get new stories. Seeing as how these are new characters, and there wasn't really any set story for any of them when the books started, I'm loving this NEW origin of Iron Man. I realise that the Iron Man you grew up with was a "normal" human being, and you're mad cause now Card has turned him into something else. Well, boo hoo. If it makes you so mad, DON'T READ IT. Don't buy it. Send Marvel letters. Send them the issues, asking for your money back. Do what ever you feel you need to do because you don't like it. But don't rain on my parade and call my ideas stupid because you don't agree with them.
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No one is calling your ideas stupid, they're calling Card's stupid. Pay attention.

When was it scientists discovered we regrow brain cells. It must have been in my lifetime (22 years) because I remember being told as a little kid not to do things because it kills brain cells, and they don't grow back. So, if it was 1970 when they were doing the experiments, why would they expect that. And that's why they were testing it on the monkey. Its not the growth of brain cells, its the fact that the brain cells were already growing back, and this sped up the process to such a degree that it was making the brain grow too big.
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Given the nature of the experiment they should have had a pretty good idea of what was going to happen. Only in old sci-fi movies do the scientists do stuff "just because" to see what happens. Not to say experiments don't turn out unexpectedly, but almost never to that degree.
 
DIrishB said:
Given the nature of the experiment they should have had a pretty good idea of what was going to happen. Only in old sci-fi movies do the scientists do stuff "just because" to see what happens. Not to say experiments don't turn out unexpectedly, but almost never to that degree.
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That's true. Cuz boy, do I remember watching some old ones that were just like that.
 
Shi_Vral said:
Says who? Who made you guys God in terms of what can and can't be changed in the Ultimate Universe? You're upset with the changes, fine. That doesn't make them wrong. In fact, they've been printed, therefore, they're right. Also, the changes don't make Card a bad writer. People have said "It'd be good if it wasn't about Iron Man." Well, its not about "your" Iron Man. Its about Card's Iron Man, which seems to have passed some sort of OK from Marvel since they're still printing, and gave him the go ahead for a second series.
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Who made Card God in terms of the Ultimate universe where he gets to say "**** it" concerning what other writers have done with Ultimate Iron Man? Because thats what he's doing.

And seriously, I can't believe you said this:

In fact, they've been printed, therefore, they're right.
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So in your opinion anything thats been put on the printed page is truth? Man, you must have a hell of a time rationalizing different religions then.
 
Shi_Vral said:
Well, if his brain grew, then his central cortex grew too, and so the distance is reduced to be the same, or even less because the neural pathways are bigger, and so the data can flow faster. Just like putting a 1Gbps network card in your computer on a very high speed connection (faster than cable, cause you're caped at 7Mbps) will make things come in faster, why wouldn't bigger neural pathways mean faster data transmition, and therefore faster response time in the brain?
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Now you're just making assumptions.
 
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TheManWithoutFear said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I LOVE THIS THREAD HE'S TRYING TO RATIONALIZE THE WALKING BRAIN IDEA!!!!
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Me too! Want some popcorn? Anything to drink?


TheManWithoutFear said:
God... someone shoot me now.
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Ok, you said so....

BLAM!

:dead: <--MWF


Dammit. Guess I'm still eating alone.... :(
 
Ok, aside from the skewed logic Card's using, lets look at the story itself. First of all, these are some of the most one-dimensional characters I've seen in awhile:

Tony - really smart freak
Rhodey - token angry black kid
Antonio - cliched rich guy who does the right thing
Zebediah - cliched rich guy who does the wrong thing
Obadiah - cliched evil really smart freak
Loni Stane - cliched money-grubbing wife

So lets see, out of the main characters none are actually original or show any characterization than beyond what I just said.

Not to mention this book is moving along with the pace of a handicapped snail. We've already covered 14 years in 4 issues and the plot really hasn't accomplished a whole lot. Maybe this is because Card is used to having more room to advance both his characters and plot, but thats not an excuse for calling this series good. Just because the guy isn't used to writing a comic book doesn't mean he deserves any more slack than someone who is. Its also apparent he did ZERO research on the character. Thats just unprofessional and irresponsible. Don't know how to make it anymore clear. There's absolutely no symbolism or underlying message to the series. I mean, Card has had a career as a writer for awhile now, you'd think he'd have picked up on these things and put them to use. Now again, I haven't read any of his novels (and you can be sure I won't after reading this trash) so I can't say whether or not he actually uses techniques like this in those, but he's surely not doing so here. Which probably means he either thinks comic fans are stupid and wouldn't pick up on them, or he thinks they're a bunch of science nerds who this stuff is enough for, or he has no concept of those things in the first place. Either way, to me that equals crap writing.

And then lets look at this issue itself. I mean come one, three kids are going to stuff another kid into a furnace and burn off his lower body because someone paid them $100? Does that seem a bit unpractical on so many levels to anyone else? And the "This one looks like coal" comment. You actually liked that? Most kids aren't cold-blooded killers, and would have a hard time holding someone in a furnace while they're burning alive. Its just so unbelievable stupid. And then after doing so Rhodey is only going to give them attitude? And they're going to go run and fetch sandwiches and water for the kid they just tried to kill? Whether they were told Tony could be killed or not. Its stupid, all the way around.
 
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No, in my opinion, anything Marvel printed in a comic book is truth, at least in terms of the characters and such involved. In fact, that's your argument as well ("Card is f-ing things up because he's not looking at the 'truth' other writers wrote before him"). And yes, my ideas have been called stupid. I'm not saying Card's ideas, as I'm not him. I'm stating my interpretations of his ideas, and you're saying their stupid. So, you are saying my ideas are stupid.
 
Shi_Vral said:
No, in my opinion, anything Marvel printed in a comic book is truth, at least in terms of the characters and such involved. In fact, that's your argument as well ("Card is f-ing things up because he's not looking at the 'truth' other writers wrote before him"). And yes, my ideas have been called stupid. I'm not saying Card's ideas, as I'm not him. I'm stating my interpretations of his ideas, and you're saying their stupid. So, you are saying my ideas are stupid.
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No, again, I said Card's ideas were stupid. That had nothing to do with your interpretations of them or whatever. I definitly disagree with them, but you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not calling you stupid, but I surely am calling you presumptuous. I don't know how the hell you pulled that out of what I said. You're not the one writing this series, you're not the one I'm slamming. I'm definitly arguing the points you're using to justify it, but thats not the same as calling your ideas stupid. Do you understand now?

And just so we're clear, can you maybe explain why Card is writing this series like an amateur. As I stated above, no characterization (especially anything believable), no real plot progression, no research on the character. Doesn't those things alone make him seem like a hack?
 
And in the first 4 issues of all the other ultimate books, the characters are fleshed out masterpieces of literary achivement? Sure, they're not the most original of character ideas, but they were what Card was given to write with. When exactly did Card say he didn't know anything about Iron Man? Because if it was before he started writing the book, then I dobut that he hasn't read at least some of the stories before he actually sat down and started writing. If it was after, then yes that was a bad move on someone's part. But I'm sorry, just because you don't like what he's done with a character you like, that doesn't make the book bad. Maybe his idea's aren't perfectly reasoned out or believable, but these are comics? What characters are 100% believable?
 
Shi_Vral said:
And in the first 4 issues of all the other ultimate books, the characters are fleshed out masterpieces of literary achivement? Sure, they're not the most original of character ideas, but they were what Card was given to write with. When exactly did Card say he didn't know anything about Iron Man? Because if it was before he started writing the book, then I dobut that he hasn't read at least some of the stories before he actually sat down and started writing. If it was after, then yes that was a bad move on someone's part. But I'm sorry, just because you don't like what he's done with a character you like, that doesn't make the book bad. Maybe his idea's aren't perfectly reasoned out or believable, but these are comics? What characters are 100% believable?
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Ok, Card, you keep tellin' yourself that.
 
Shi_Vral said:
And in the first 4 issues of all the other ultimate books, the characters are fleshed out masterpieces of literary achivement?
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Compared to Ultimate Iron Man they're all like Shakespeare. And at least they kept most of us wanting more, something which is definitly NOT the case with Ultimate Iron Man. And most of those characterizations were believable, at least much more so than anything in UIM. None of Card's characters in this story are even remotely relatable.

Sure, they're not the most original of character ideas, but they were what Card was given to write with. When exactly did Card say he didn't know anything about Iron Man? Because if it was before he started writing the book, then I dobut that he hasn't read at least some of the stories before he actually sat down and started writing.
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It has nothing to do with what he said, it has to do with what he wrote. Man, you're really missing the point with this.

If it was after, then yes that was a bad move on someone's part. But I'm sorry, just because you don't like what he's done with a character you like, that doesn't make the book bad. Maybe his idea's aren't perfectly reasoned out or believable, but these are comics? What characters are 100% believable?
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No, the other reasons I listed make the book bad. And as I said, they're not supposed to be believable, just interesting, something the Tony in this series isn't. Do you know anything about writing? Because honestly, if this series is an acceptable form of that for you, I'm going to have to say no.
 
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