Ultimate Iron Man #4 (Spoilers)

WARNING, IF YOU PLAN ON READING ANY OF THE ENDER'S BOOKS, DO NOT READ THIS POST. Unless of course you don't mind my somewhat subtle description of each book.







Ender's Game: Third kid born to a family ends up being a perfect mix of his two older siblings, and is able to save the world from Aliens by coming up with new military stratiges. Finds out at the end that maybe things weren't as the seemed. Was originally a short story, he turned it into a novel because he had an idea for another book, but wanted a more fleshed out character than he felt he could justify in one book.

Speaker for the Dead: 3000 years after Ender saves the world, humanity has spread out across the galaxy thanks to almost light speed travel. Ender and his sister have been flying on ships, effectivly outliving most everyone they've ever known. Ender is on a mission to fix the evil he thinks he did back on Earth, and finally finds a place where he thinks he can do that. Problem is, someone already lives there.

Xenocide: Someone catches on to what Ender is doing, and decides they must stop him. But how, as they are planets away, and would never make it in time via the current travel system. Time to start working on faster than light travel. Back on Ender's planet, Earth's government has decided that this rebelion has gone on long enough, time to send in the fleet. Its a race against time as Ender must find a way to save the humans, the natural lifeforms, and his plan to undo the evil he did 3000 years ago.

Children of the Mind: Ok, this one was a little crazy, but it is the last official Ender book, so I think Card figured that out too. The new instantainous Travel System offers Ender solutions to all his problems. But what happens when the maiden flight also brings back some shadows of Ender's former life?

Ender's Shadow: Retells the stroy of Ender's Game, but from the perspective of the only Military mind to rival Ender's, Bean. What role did Ender's small right hand really play in the events of Ender's Game?

Shadow of the Hegemon: Now that Ender is gone from Earth thanks to the political manuvering of his brother, Peter, its time for the Battle School kids to come home. But now that they're back on Earth, what plans do their governments have for this well trained, brilliant generals? Also, what's Peter's game, trying to recreate the Hegemony of Earth's past?

Shadow Puppets: Now that the Battle School kids have had their first battles on Earth, does Peter still have a chance to unite Earth under one Governement? Also, what is Achilles' plan for Bean's children?

Shadow of the Giant: Bean is growing out of control, and it seems there is no cure in sight. His only chance is to jump on a almost light speed ship to extend his life-time until someone can find a cure. But first, Peter needs help one more time. Is Bean up to the task, or is he ready to lay down and die?

So, those are just the Ender books. I've also read his Homecoming series, and his Alvin Maker Series, along with Pas****ch. The themes in his books, although similar, do change from book to book. Also, the differnt series have very different themes and story lines, and I think he fully deserves the critical acclaim he had coming in to this book. Sure, its not the best he's writen (Ender's Game and Red Prophet are my favorites) but I still don't think its as bad as you guys try to make it seem.
 
Okay, Shi_Vral... I've just read ALL of that... and I still haven't a clue why you like this series..

Explain. 25 words or Less.

......

As for my opinion, this arc better ****ing end with Tony Stark waking up and finding out that he's having wacky dreams induced by his normal Brain Tumor in his normal sized head.

But golly, I sure can't wait for UIM vol 2 since this the generalizing hack who likes to take a hold of his characters and make them as two dimensional as possible... as well as an actively homophobic *******... who's getting personal control of Jarvis...

*twitches*

The plothole you boyos have yet to point out is HOW THE FIRST GODDAMN SUIT HE CREATES IS THE ONE FROM ULTIMATES VOLUME ONE, WHEN IN ULTIMATES ISSUE 1.1, IT IS SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED AS A NEW SUIT, AND THAT THE NEW IRON SUIT BOYS IN THE RESERVES ARE SUPPOSEDLY WEARING PROTOTYPES OF THAT SAME SUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARHUIOSHO:zxdnrm;udoHihjHJROIUSGF&*Odnvuitfsuck ligfhjdgkucvmxudhn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*explodes

And for those of you who'd like to argue that UIM has no reason to use the flying, gun suit are quite wrong. He wants to kill people.

A super healing factor can't do that well, now can it?
 
I like this series because I feel like Tony's character needed an update,
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
and I think that the Ultimate Universe has provided that.
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

So, that's the 25 words you gave me. You may not agree, and that's fine. I don't agree with everything you say either. Also, I don't think OSC's stance on homosexuals, as stupid as it is, has any real affect on his fictional writing, so I don't think it has a place in an argument about the book, as there hasn't been a thing done with homosexuals in Ultimate Iron Man

(Stupid spacing doesn't work the way I wanted it to.)
 
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Shi_Vral said:
You may not agree, and that's fine. I don't agree with everything you say either.

:sure:

Come on now. Everything I say is so freaking aweome, how can you NOT agree?

Also, I don't think OSC's stance on homosexuals, as stupid as it is, has any real affect on his fictional writing, so I don't think it has a place in an argument about the book, as there hasn't been a thing done with homosexuals in Ultimate Iron Man

Exactly. Despite the only homosexual character with a personality in the Ultimate Universe is Jarvis, the butler...

Who they have seemingly forgotten.....

If it turns out that Tony hires him when he's older, then he should be showing up in the second arc. At which point I will probably either want to strangle Card for completely ignoring the only previously acknowledged approach to Jarvis, or how he's played it up to it being just plain insulting.

And you obviously haven't read his books as well as you claim to if you believe that his political views don't effect his writing... The Sexist Undertones in Ender's Game (and according to the same teacher who got me to read the first one, that also goes along with the sequels) tend to boggle the mind
 
Maybe I'm just missing it, but the fact that some of the most important characters in the book are women. So, how is that sexest? I mean, Ender would never have gone to the super secret school without Valentine. And Petra was a part of Ender's Jesh(SP?) from the moment she joined his army. Now, it could be just me, but most of the important characters, other than Ender himself, are female. So, where are the sexest undertones? Oh, and what was this teacher's opinion of Card's writing over all? Cause, if they didn't like it, which is fine, then I'm less worried about the "evil" they can find in the book. If you look hard enough, you'll find something wrong in everything.
 
I read the book back in my freshman year, so its not all fresh in my head, but I remembering it bothering me... Regardless, I didn't enjoy the book, so it didn't stick on my mind for long.

I think its that women are all just like "yay, men are in charge"

but don't quote me on that....

This thread is about Ultimate Iron Man, not Card's other work, But I think anyone's personal oppinions come across in some way through their works...

Even without specific examples from Card, I somehow doubt a man who likens homosexuals to those who have sex with animals is going to have a positive portrayal of a Gay Man.
 
The gay character in the Homecoming series wasn't a bad guy. He did end up having sex with the only unmarried girl, but only because there were like 14 people trying to repopulate the Earth. I agree that his personal opinions show up, but they don't dominate his writing. He doesn't use his writing to try to convert people to his way of thinking. Millar's somewhat obvious dislike of a military idustrial complex comes out in his writing, but we don't fault him for it. As long as Card doesn't use his noteriety (SP?) and writing to try to convert the confused masses to his way of thinking, I'm ok with him having whatever opinion he feels is right. Just don't tell me mine is wrong, ok?

Oh, and you may want to read some of the newer Ender's books. There may have been some sexest tones, but the newer ones have very stong female characters.
 
Shi_Vral said:
Maybe I'm just missing it, but the fact that some of the most important characters in the book are women. So, how is that sexest?

There's a difference in being a sexist and a bigot, not a big one, but its there. A sexist just views women as lesser than men. A bigot views homosexuals the same way (and other various minorities). And Card definitly views homosexuals in a less than flattering light.

I mean, Ender would never have gone to the super secret school without Valentine. And Petra was a part of Ender's Jesh(SP?) from the moment she joined his army. Now, it could be just me, but most of the important characters, other than Ender himself, are female. So, where are the sexest undertones? Oh, and what was this teacher's opinion of Card's writing over all? Cause, if they didn't like it, which is fine, then I'm less worried about the "evil" they can find in the book. If you look hard enough, you'll find something wrong in everything.

You're still confusing sexists with bigots.

Millar's somewhat obvious dislike of a military idustrial complex comes out in his writing, but we don't fault him for it.

Its hard to fault someone who's right. ;)

By the way:

sexest=sexist

Thats how you spell it.
 
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Shi_Vral said:
Millar's somewhat obvious dislike of a military idustrial complex

There is a point where something stops being appropriate, Using contemporary imagery to make a point in a story is good. It helps us relate.

Forcing a homosexual into a situation where he is forced to help repopulate the Earth by sex and sex alone bothers me because he's making a point... The same point that he's been making over and over and over. That it's all a choice.

Want to know how I figured out how I hated the guy?

Orson Scott Card said:
"Any homosexual man who can persuade a woman to take him as her husband can avail himself of all the rights of husbandhood under the law. So it is a flat lie to say that homosexuals are deprived of any civil right pertaining to marriage. To get those civil rights, all homosexuals have to do is find someone of the opposite sex willing to join them in marriage."

There's also a quote somewhere about how he likes using his writing to make people change their minds on issues without them realizing it, but I can't find it right now...
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
There is a point where something stops being appropriate, Using contemporary imagery to make a point in a story is good. It helps us relate.

Forcing a homosexual into a situation where he is forced to help repopulate the Earth by sex and sex alone bothers me because he's making a point... The same point that he's been making over and over and over. That it's all a choice.

Want to know how I figured out how I hated the guy?

Wow...that quote of his (Card's) was something...wow...I'm still trying to digest that...wow...just...wow. Thats all I can say...wow.

There's also a quote somewhere about how he likes using his writing to make people change their minds on issues without them realizing it, but I can't find it right now...

Ah yes, thats always something to be proud of, subversive mind control. This guy is becoming more and more of a fascist in my view with every quote of his I hear.
 
Am I the only one who is shocked that we've added six pages in one day discussing a comic that everyone seems hate.
 
maaaaybe...

but the bit that I missed the first time...

DIrishB said:
Ah yes, thats always something to be proud of, subversive mind control. This guy is becoming more and more of a fascist in my view with every quote of his I hear.

Card is admittedly a supporter of the "Big Brother" system of government.

Read this quote, and note the strong points

Orson Scott Card said:
One thing is certain: one cannot serve two masters. And when one's life is given over to one community that demands utter allegiance, it cannot be given to another. The LDS church is one such community. . .

It is for God to judge which individuals are tempted beyond their ability to bear or beyond their ability to resist. But it is the responsibility of the Church and the Saints never to lose sight of the goal of perfect obedience to laws designed for our happiness.

Here's some other fun stuff

oofta... then there's this whole bit where he likens Islamicism to Anarchism, and goes off on how we should imprison people who publish news stories that tell the truth, and stir a reaction - here

And, this is the best one... This is an article published about Star Wars (Revenge of the Sith in particular) where Card decides that the Empire was the more effective governing Body, while The Jedi were the REAL bad guys of the Prequel Trilogy... here

I mean....

COME ON
 
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only reason i entered this thread is becuase it had 132 replys and 1,102 views, maybe something good?? .....no... REALLY FUNNY STUFF? YES!!!!
 
MaxwellSmart said:
Am I the only one who is shocked that we've added six pages in one day discussing a comic that everyone seems hate.

Nope, thats usually the ones that get the most attention...however negative it is.

Dr. Strangefate said:
Card is admittedly a supporter of the "Big Brother" system of government.

Read this quote, and note the strong points

That was probably evident from the storyline of Ender's Game.

God, I hate the guy even more now.
 
I think we should all just give it up. If you don't like the mini, don't buy it. You say OSC is an idiot and that his work is crap. If that is the case, why are you all so attracted to crap? Some of you obviously buy it, or at least READ it in the stores. As for the people who DO like it, just be silent. You don't have to defend the fact that you like it do you? One or more persons opinons on something don't reflect badly on you if you are the minority. Anyways. I like the series, and I am giving OSC a break, isn't this his first comic? As to the whole mother thing, Tony could have been talking about a step mother right? He could have also gone to school breifly with Reed. I do not think it says anything contrary in Secret. Yes they look like they haven't met, but we do not know for sure.


All in all, aren't you guys getting sick of bashing this guy? Move on to someone that deserves it more.......wait, there is no one :D
 
Well this is it isn't it. I don't buy it, hell, I don't even download it anymore. It was even suggested that I download it because it's fun to slag off.

Card is making a complete hash of the character of Tony Stark, and while I don't care for his series, I do care for the character he's butchering.
 
Guijllons said:
You know what I like about Card? He's really easy to dislike.
And he's an idiot, and who doesn't love an idiot.

Speaking of which, shouldn't that have been a question mark at the end of that last sentence? ;)

Ultimate Venom said:
Ultimate Venom I think we should all just give it up. If you don't like the mini, don't buy it. You say OSC is an idiot and that his work is crap. If that is the case, why are you all so attracted to crap? Some of you obviously buy it, or at least READ it in the stores.

Of course most of us buy it, as we're hardcore Ultimate fans and most of us are completists, otherwise I doubt the majority of people would be commenting negatively about it. Its like being a Star Wars fan. Despite that the first two prequels were less than good movies (and lets admit it, The Phantom Menace was crap), I guarantee that didn't stop most from adding it to their collection once it came out on DVD. Why do people keep asking the same questions leading us to making the same comments?

As for the people who DO like it, just be silent. You don't have to defend the fact that you like it do you? One or more persons opinons on something don't reflect badly on you if you are the minority. Anyways. I like the series, and I am giving OSC a break, isn't this his first comic?

No accounting for personal tastes I guess.

As to the whole mother thing, Tony could have been talking about a step mother right? He could have also gone to school breifly with Reed. I do not think it says anything contrary in Secret. Yes they look like they haven't met, but we do not know for sure.

Its more than the mother or going to school with Reed mentions in previous stories. God this is like the 758th time I've mentioned it, but what about the brain tumor? What about the other discrepancies?

All in all, aren't you guys getting sick of bashing this guy? Move on to someone that deserves it more.......wait, there is no one

That you're spot on with. The guy's personal politics aside, he's apparently an unoriginal author who got one good idea for a novel, wrote a huge amount of apparently more than unnecessary sequels to it, and keeps repeating the same themes and characters over and over. How's that the sign of a good author? Despite this being his first comic, it sounds like he's a third-rate comic writer of the 1970's, churning out the same crap over and over. Thats why I personally keep bashing the guy, besides the craptacular UIM mini.

Guijllons said:
Well this is it isn't it. I don't buy it, hell, I don't even download it anymore. It was even suggested that I download it because it's fun to slag off.

Card is making a complete hash of the character of Tony Stark, and while I don't care for his series, I do care for the character he's butchering.

Exactly. See, you're not so dumb, besides your questionable punctuation use.
 
MaxwellSmart said:
Am I the only one who is shocked that we've added six pages in one day discussing a comic that everyone seems hate.

A lot of it is discussing symantics about why Card's story is crap and doesn't hold up.

Ultimate Venom said:
I think we should all just give it up. If you don't like the mini, don't buy it. You say OSC is an idiot and that his work is crap. If that is the case, why are you all so attracted to crap? Some of you obviously buy it, or at least READ it in the stores. As for the people who DO like it, just be silent.

I agree - if you don't like it you should shut up. If you do like it, you should shut up. No one should be talking about this.

:roll:

It's a discussion board. We discuss comics. We discuss comics we like and what we like about them, we discuss comics we dislike and what we dislike about them.

It would be one thing if people were just going on with post after post saying "I hate Card he sucks." But it is actual discussion.

If you don't like the discussion - don't participate. Easy as that.

Now, lets get back to the comic book and get off Card's political and social views - they have no place here.
 

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