Ultimate Origins series discussion [Bendis/Guice] [spoilers]

[Foolsfolly]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers) Preview included.

Damn....I'm...so tired with comics now.

 

[Void.M]

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I don't see the big deal. It just means he's seen **** go down and that he has years of experience.

 

[E]

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Maybe the super soldier serum will grows him a new arm.

 

[Zombipanda]

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Okay, so here's the thing. Mutations, as they exist in any version of the Marvel Universe, couldn't exist without some sort of intelligent design behind them. The idea that random mutations spawn guys who can turn into ice and shoot fire out of their hands without any harm to themselves is just ludicrous, without some sort of calculated design behind the process. So, I think it's a good thing that there's going to be an in-universe explanation for them. I'm a little worried that it's just going to turn into an "It's the super-soldier serum gone awry!" explanation, and will ultimately (hah!) be about as pedestrian as can be.

My point is.... Wait... What's my point? I guess I don't have one.

 

[Foolsfolly]

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Inhumans.

Watch.

 

[DIrishB]

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Maybe the super soldier serum will grows him a new arm.

Oh no...you just might be right!




So the issue was nothing special. I won't bother to summarize since there were already early reviews full of spoilers. The story almost seemed pointless (at least so far). It just feels forced and without reason for everything to be tied together so neatly with a bow. I like Fury less knowing he also is a super soldier. It makes a certain amount of sense given his impressive resume, but at the same time really hadn't been built up to and feels like Bendis pulled it out of his *** at the last minute. Wolverine...no big surprise. Pretty much a carbon copy of his 616 version's history, just not quite as long. Oh, and he's the first mutant. Of course. I did like the early versions of the Super Soldiers all being failures, and how Bendis portrayed the early version getting mowed down like an idiot. I chuckled at that. I'm wondering if the Fisk that was with Wolverine and Fury is indeed Kingpin (or a relative--father/uncle/brother/etc). Probably, though again, if this is the case, it seems forced and pointless at this point. This series is probably one of those best viewed as a whole, since many revelations will probably be reserved for the end. I just hope they're not all complete let-downs.

The art rocked. Loved it.

Hoping it gets better in the next few issues. I was thoroughly unimpressed by this issue, especially after the build-up this series and the resulting Ultimatum have recieved.

2/5

 

[Lynx]

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Spoiler

Fisk?

Ultimate Line = *Klunk*

Doing the one thing that pisses me off more than anything; Tying everything together. Nothing is without coincidence. That's piss poor storytelling.

Yeah, but we've known everything was going to tie together since the whole Ultimate Conspiracy rumors started years ago.

Anyway. . .the Fury thing is just stupid. This pretty much just sealed the UU's fate as far as I'm concerned. I was willing to give it one more chance, but. . .no.

 

[Pearl]

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So, I know that probably no one cares, but if Wolverine is a manufactured mutant (kinda like.... Geldoff), wouldn't that mean he can't have been Captain America's War buddy? According to this he only got his power's after the war.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

I haven't read an Ultimate comic in months and this was not a good place to come back to. Nick Fury being a supersoldier in World War II is why I don't hesitate to think (SECRET INVASION SPOILERS!)

Spoiler

Tony Stark may actually be a Skrull.

Ugh. The Ultimate Universe is done.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Kinda.

It's not bad, and I think there's more revelations to come. I don't think the mutant issue is what Cornelius thinks it is. I think the guy is assuming more than he knows.

Fury was stupid. I don't care if he's Ultimate Isiah Bradley. Ultimate Fury hasn't had the slightest hint he's that old - only that he knows a lot of stuff. If he's the first super soldier guy then... why, in THE ULTIMATES, as he's desperately trying to recreate the formula, doesn't he give Pym and Banner access to his OWN blood? "What makes Steve Rogers so special?" Maybe the answer is in your veins you retconned fool. Fisk was stupider. And Wolverine as the first mutant is wankery. Mutants being a version of the super soldier serum is something that makes sense and I said as much three years ago when I joined the site - but Wolverine being the first mutant is pretty masturbatory.

However (and I may be setting myself up for disappointment), I think there's more to this than we think. I think it might be interesting to see what other surprises remain. I'm still excited.

But if it turns into this format: #1 Origin of Fury and Wolverine #2 Origin of Captain America and Magneto #3 Origin of Hulk and Spider-Man #4 Origin of some other bastard then this whole thing isn't a mini revealing the underpinnings of the UU, but just random one-shots stapled together.

While I seriously doubt it will be, I can't shake the idea that Wolverine won't show up again until #5 for a gratuitous "It's all connected" moment...

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

I noticed something, and I think I'll try to make sense of it.

I was reading Millar's last run on Ultimate X-Men, and I think, because of all the Ultimate Thor/ Galactus thinking I've been doing, and because I might be going mad, I saw the design of the universe - and it wasn't a snowflake.

There are, in the Ultimate universe, an almost uncountable amount of references of superhumans as weapons.

They are called "Persons of Mass Destruction", the Ultimates are a military installation led by a super Soldier, Iron Man's armour is a prototype military vehicle, mutants were kept as weapons in the Weapon X facility, Magneto's first foray into terrorism involved using a mutant called Detonator as a human bomb, the Fantastic Four are a military think tank, Pym, Wasp and Banner work for SHIELD, so will Spider-Man when he comes of age, Green Goblin was created during military research for SHIELD, the Hulk is a weapon of last resort, and on and on.

And we know Galactus is coming, and in Ultimate Secret, Mahr Vehl (or whoever is in charge of him) is trying to keep Earth from visiting other worlds (obviously in an attempt to prevent Galactus from discovering Earth - which makes me wonder where Uatu fits in all this - perhaps he's at the bottom of Nightmare?).

The super soldier serum was first made successful during WW2; which is when the first major open strike by an alien race, the Chitauri, was made. It's not inconceivable, that with this proof, and the 1904 Tunguska blast, that real-life aliens, and their plans for Earth, were made known to very high levels.

Remember, Banner once said everything's connected. And Kong once mentioned that all the superheroes are showing up because something bad is on the horizon (using the Ghostbusters as a reference).

This danger would be Galactus.

What if all the superheroes, the mutants and the freaks, have been created as weapons to use against Galactus?

In the final part of "Return of the King", Magneto points out Xavier has human paymasters. But the Hellfire club is gone. And that Magneto seems to know Xavier has a much further-reaching agenda than training young mutants.

Are mutants the most successful, but most unstable and uncontrollable variant of the super soldier serum? Or maybe, mutant dna was used to synthesise the serum as Pym used Wasp to create Ant-Man and Giant-Man. The former seems likely, and Xavier and Magneto are very aware of their role and origins, but its possible that they don't neccessarily know about Galactus, or perhaps they don't believe in him. (Which would explain Xavier's total refusal to accept the Phoenix - he's heard crazier tales of Galactus, and he doesn't believe them to be true either.)

If you look back at all of Bendis' and Millar's Ultimates works with the thought that superheroes have been created and harnessed as weapons to be fought in a war against Galactus, certain things really jump out at you.

It would seem this revelation, and the indisputable appearance of Galactus, is what has been building in the Ultimate line for years, and what will shape it.

PS: If this has been mentioned earlier, I apologise. I only joined yesterday and haven't read many posts on this forum.

PPS: The last time my mind went on a bender to discover a series mysteries were Babylon 5 and Crusade. Sniff. I never did find out where the cure to the plague would come from... but I was right about Techno-mages.

Just thought I'd quote me circa late February 2005. Ah, what a n00b I was...

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

EDIT.


I'm computer illiterate. Sorry.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Uh, no. He gets them in 1943, so still during the war and with plenty of time to interact with Cap.





Uh, no. He gets them in 1943, so still during the war and with plenty of time to interact with Cap.



Uh, no. He gets them in 1943, so still during the war and with plenty of time to interact with Cap.

Can someone turn DIrishB over to side B?

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Dib... did you mean to do the same post three times?

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Can someone turn DIrishB over to side B?

Sorry, I'm at work, and when I posted that my computer froze for a couple minutes. I didn't even post it three times, but somehow it worked out that way. Oh well.

I'm answering it one more time to be clear:

So, I know that probably no one cares, but if Wolverine is a manufactured mutant (kinda like.... Geldoff), wouldn't that mean he can't have been Captain America's War buddy? According to this he only got his power's after the war.

No, he was turned into a mutant in 1943 according to Ultimate Origins. Cap was turned into Cap in 1942/1943 according to Ultimates 2, so the timeline works. They still had all of 1944 and 1945 to create their history together.

But if it turns into this format: #1 Origin of Fury and Wolverine #2 Origin of Captain America and Magneto #3 Origin of Hulk and Spider-Man #4 Origin of some other bastard then this whole thing isn't a mini revealing the underpinnings of the UU, but just random one-shots stapled together.

While I seriously doubt it will be, I can't shake the idea that Wolverine won't show up again until #5 for a gratuitous "It's all connected" moment...

I'm thinking you're cynical expectations are exactly how its going to turn out. And I honestly had high hopes for this mini...once upon a time. God, it seems so long ago now.

Dib... did you mean to do the same post three times?

Nope. I like hearing myself, but not that much. Like I said, minor technical difficulties. I'll edit it.

 

[Langsta]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

So, either Apocalypse isn't a mutant in this universe or he was born after Wolverine?

Nick Fury was cool because he did a bunch of awesome stuff despite being "human" (or so we thought). Now, he doesn't seem at all awesome or extraordinary.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

So, either Apocalypse isn't a mutant in this universe or he was born after Wolverine?

Technically I think its supposed to be assumed that Apocalypse was just Sinister with delusions of grandeur and an amped up secondary mutation, though I could be wrong about that.

Nick Fury was cool because he did a bunch of awesome stuff despite being "human" (or so we thought). Now, he doesn't seem at all awesome or extraordinary.

Exactly.

Its too bad the fans get the Ultimate universe better than the writer(s) who created it.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

I wonder what Millar thinks about Fury being a super soldier during World War II.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

read it yesturday and besides the art it just made my head hurt :?

Nick Fury the super - soldier.... NO!!! Ult. Fury, to me, was a much better character as he was prior to this. My only guess is why he doesn't use his own blood in the present day to recreate the SSS is because maybe he burned out or something. plus, i don't know who it was but some posts back someone mentioned that he grew his arm back after Ultimates 2. Now, if he has the ability to regenerate, why not regenerate his eye? if this Fury turned out to be present Fury's father then i guess that would work for me.

Wolverine... now i can't remember the year that was given that went with Wolverine's birth, but i think it was still in the 1940's? if i'm wrong then im sorry for this rant If Jim was created in the 40's doesn't that $#^@ things up that have already been established? Such as wasn't Wolverine created during the Gulf War or a little before that? Colonel Wraith and Tara were present for his birth when here in Origins they didn't appear to be. and Dr. C in the 40's? Shouldn't he be more old in present day Ult. Universe than he was presented here? If I wrong about this date then all of this was pointless and i apologize. I would like to be reminded of what the date was given in this ish

 

[Langsta]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

read it yesturday and besides the art it just made my head hurt :?

Nick Fury the super - soldier.... NO!!! Ult. Fury, to me, was a much better character as he was prior to this. My only guess is why he doesn't use his own blood in the present day to recreate the SSS is because maybe he burned out or something. plus, i don't know who it was but some posts back someone mentioned that he grew his arm back after Ultimates 2. Now, if he has the ability to regenerate, why not regenerate his eye? if this Fury turned out to be present Fury's father then i guess that would work for me.

:lol:The only explanation I can think of is that Fury lost his eye before the serum, or something....

Wait, I've got a much more likely explanation: ****ty writing.