Ultimate X-Men #78 discussion (Spoilers)

[Lynx]

Isn't the principal beauty of rewriting the X-men story that you can prevent holes in the continuity; that you can forshadow, and preplot and make the whole story work in advance?!!!

I think that there will not be alternate timelines in the Ultimate X-men universe... at least, not under Kirkman's watch. Because Kirkman knows the story, and can preplan it. I say that Xavier was whisked into the future with Cable, and replaced with Charred remains and that Bishop will soon explain that in his timeline they always thought Charles died around this point. I think Kirkman has it all planned out and it will be beautiful. Much like Bendis combing that whole 90's spidey clone debacle into a concise story, I think Kirkman will converge all the unweildy time travel elements of X-men into one simple whole.

AND!!! Why is no one as excited as I am about Bishop? The X-men have been being lead by this pansie-assed Xavier for TOO long! Now a hardened military mind will be their most senior and wise guide. Scott will further step up, and under Bishop's tutelage, the X-men will become a disciplined kick *** crew. Also, the knowledge of the future's dificulties will give them meaning and motivation to struggle and suffer in the present.

Also, re:Cable being Wolverine. I passionately want this to be so. What I would like better would be Cable to be Scott from the future (OMG!) or why not simply have him be Scott's son? It is SO plausible. He'd be smart enough to **** with Wolverine. Hell, it might be Wolverine who tells him in the future to do it.

1 timeline. Everything that happens here is what really happens. One future, and everything that happens really happens!

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said.

Just because Kirkman can preplan a story, doesn't mean he will. Bendis' Clone Saga was a god-awful mess and if Kirkman's story is anywhere near Bendis' Clone Saga, I'm dropping this book, no questions asked.

I seriously doubt Bishop will become the new Xavier. If anything, Scott will be leading the X-men his own way.

And everything you said about Cable. . .I just don't agree with. Him being an already established character makes things a mess and him being Scott's son reeks of 616 (Although I like it better than him being Logan or Scott).

 

[Joe Kalicki]

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said.

Just because Kirkman can preplan a story, doesn't mean he will. Bendis' Clone Saga was a god-awful mess and if Kirkman's story is anywhere near Bendis' Clone Saga, I'm dropping this book, no questions asked.

I seriously doubt Bishop will become the new Xavier. If anything, Scott will be leading the X-men his own way.

And everything you said about Cable. . .I just don't agree with. Him being an already established character makes things a mess and him being Scott's son reeks of 616 (Although I like it better than him being Logan or Scott).

I don't understand how the identity of Cable can be switched around or how him being Scott's child reeks of 616. Cable is Scott's son. Spider-Man is Peter Parker, the Hulk is Bruce Banner, and so on. Cable is not Future Wolverine. I don't understand how you could just take a character's name, give it to somebody completely different, and call it a day. This isn't an Ultimization of Cable at all, honestly.

 

[Foolsfolly]

Umm...Xavier can't body hope to Cable.

Can't.

He couldn't use his telepathy on Cable. When his life depending on doing so. He can't hop into Cable.

 

[Marvel_Boy]

Whoops. Why was that?

 

[Zombipanda]

I don't understand how the identity of Cable can be switched around or how him being Scott's child reeks of 616. Cable is Scott's son. Spider-Man is Peter Parker, the Hulk is Bruce Banner, and so on. Cable is not Future Wolverine. I don't understand how you could just take a character's name, give it to somebody completely different, and call it a day. This isn't an Ultimization of Cable at all, honestly.

because Cable is a C-list character. Therefore, the details of his ultimization are subservient to the plot and the progression of the X-Men. When most people see Cable, they think "huge dude from the future with guns", and Kirkman's got that down pat.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I don't understand how the identity of Cable can be switched around or how him being Scott's child reeks of 616. Cable is Scott's son. Spider-Man is Peter Parker, the Hulk is Bruce Banner, and so on. Cable is not Future Wolverine. I don't understand how you could just take a character's name, give it to somebody completely different, and call it a day. This isn't an Ultimization of Cable at all, honestly.

Having a character in the UU be slightly different that his 616 counterpart is completely acceptable.

Look at Mojo. He was completely different and yet completely the same and he worked out well. Same with Cable. Got the basic idea of the character down----yet tweak the origin. It worked......somewhat....for now.

 

[Foolsfolly]

Whoops. Why was that?

It was in UXM 75. I don't remember why, I remember Xavier asking how he was doing it. But I don't remember if Cable even answered how he was blocking him.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I don't understand how the identity of Cable can be switched around or how him being Scott's child reeks of 616. Cable is Scott's son. Spider-Man is Peter Parker, the Hulk is Bruce Banner, and so on. Cable is not Future Wolverine. I don't understand how you could just take a character's name, give it to somebody completely different, and call it a day. This isn't an Ultimization of Cable at all, honestly.

Cable was originally supposed to be the future version of Cannonball, but was retconned into being the son of Scott and Madelyne Pryor a few years after being introduced. It was a stunt that allowed marvel to pump out a dozen ****ty miniseries about the character.

I like the identity he's developed in the Cable/Deadpool series, but he still really doesn't have a personality, and different writers take him in completely different directions.

He was a mysterious character with ties to the present, who came from the war-torn future. THAT is the core emphasis of the character. Everything else was filler, and him not being Nathan Christopher Charles Summers does not bother me in the least.

 

[Mahdroo]

Having a character in the UU be slightly different that his 616 counterpart is completely acceptable.

because Cable is a C-list character. Therefore, the details of his ultimization are subservient to the plot and the progression of the X-Men.

I thought the fun of writing the UU was that the authors could take what worked from the past and toss what didn't. Cable's backstory was invented after the fact and it never worked! Cable more than anyone needs to be ultimized and re-written, because how he was explained not only failed to serve the X-men story, the story ended up having to serve him; to bend over backwards to explain his origins with pathetic implausibilities. The trial by techno-organic virus given him by Apocalypse. The whole bit about being raised 2,000 years in the future by Scott & Jean's minds-in-other-bodies. The backtracking and explaining got worse and worse. Cable is c-list because his backstory & motivation were so poorly thought out & explained. It is so bad that almost ANY simplification of it woud be better. Just having him be from the immediate 100 years of future is a huge improvement.

And if Cable is Wolverine, which I doubt, but if he is, that is a HUGE improvement on both Cable's character and Wolverine's. What? You like the story that Wolverine goes on to be a rebel who fights in vain for a dream he can never bring about? You like a weak Wolverine who wouldn't do anything to fight for what he thought was right? Well I want a Wolverine who goes to more and more extreme lengths to fight, no matter how radical. Time continium be damned if it stands in his way! And Cable? any explanation for him that gives him a viable M.O. is okay with me. As long as he is not from 2,000 years in the future, I am happy.

Why is everyone so sour on this? Why is no one else as excited as I am? Why does there always have to be something wrong to complain about? Like I said before, I love that they are simplifying these hugely impossible plots. The 90's plots were a mess of different books and forced editorial decisions. I'll take a one-creative-team take on them anyday.

Question?: Okay, so what do you predict Ultimate Bishop will do now? If he knows the way the world turns out and he's stuck in the present, what will he do?

 

[Marvel_Boy]

It was in UXM 75. I don't remember why, I remember Xavier asking how he was doing it. But I don't remember if Cable even answered how he was blocking him.

I think this pretty much proves he's Wolverine (or to a lesser extent his clone, assuming he gets the same training -- which is unlikely since the project is all but destroyed but for a single madman's lab), whose Weapon X training blocked Xavier from reading his mind.

Cable is c-list because his backstory & motivation were so poorly thought out & explained. It is so bad that almost ANY simplification of it woud be better.

Exactly.

Why is everyone so sour on this? Why is no one else as excited as I am? Why does there always have to be something wrong to complain about? Like I said before, I love that they are simplifying these hugely impossible plots. The 90's plots were a mess of different books and forced editorial decisions. I'll take a one-creative-team take on them anyday.

Hear, hear!

 

[ShaggyMarco]

I also love the huge irony of Cable being future Wolverine.

Logan has always (616 and UU) been nearly-defined by his mysterious past and never knowing where he's been.

Now, in the UU, Logan may not know his whole past, be he knows exactly who he will become! He's a man with no past...but he definitely has a future. That is SO COOL.

I think half the fun will be seeing how the Wolverine we know becomes the Cable we know.

 

[thee great one]

I also love the huge irony of Cable being future Wolverine.

Logan has always (616 and UU) been nearly-defined by his mysterious past and never knowing where he's been.

Now, in the UU, Logan may not know his whole past, be he knows exactly who he will become! He's a man with no past...but he definitely has a future. That is SO COOL.

I think half the fun will be seeing how the Wolverine we know becomes the Cable we know.

That is pretty good observation.

 

[Mahdroo]

There are SO many reasons the Cable is Wolverine plot is a good idea. If you want to hear more I wrote an elaboration here: Cable as Wolverine]

 

[McCheese]

Having a character in the UU be slightly different that his 616 counterpart is completely acceptable.

Look at Mojo. He was completely different and yet completely the same and he worked out well. Same with Cable. Got the basic idea of the character down----yet tweak the origin. It worked......somewhat....for now.

Cable was originally supposed to be the future version of Cannonball, but was retconned into being the son of Scott and Madelyne Pryor a few years after being introduced. It was a stunt that allowed marvel to pump out a dozen ****ty miniseries about the character.

I like the identity he's developed in the Cable/Deadpool series, but he still really doesn't have a personality, and different writers take him in completely different directions.

He was a mysterious character with ties to the present, who came from the war-torn future. THAT is the core emphasis of the character. Everything else was filler, and him not being Nathan Christopher Charles Summers does not bother me in the least.

I don't mind him not being the son of Scott and Jean and I could live with him being a completely unrelated character, but what I don't like is Wolverine. Why him? He's not overused enough as it is?

Someone different sure, Wolverine no.

And if Cable is Wolverine, which I doubt, but if he is, that is a HUGE improvement on both Cable's character and Wolverine's.

Wrong.

What? You like the story that Wolverine goes on to be a rebel who fights in vain for a dream he can never bring about? You like a weak Wolverine who wouldn't do anything to fight for what he thought was right? Well I want a Wolverine who goes to more and more extreme lengths to fight, no matter how radical. Time continium be damned if it stands in his way!

I like a story that doesn't revolve around Wolverine.

And Cable? any explanation for him that gives him a viable M.O. is okay with me. As long as he is not from 2,000 years in the future, I am happy.

You're too easily pleased.

Why is everyone so sour on this? Why is no one else as excited as I am?

Because you're wrong.

Why does there always have to be something wrong to complain about?

Because there is something wrong.

Like I said before, I love that they are simplifying these hugely impossible plots. The 90's plots were a mess of different books and forced editorial decisions. I'll take a one-creative-team take on them anyday.

Good for you. Enjoy your simplified tripe.

Question?: Okay, so what do you predict Ultimate Bishop will do now? If he knows the way the world turns out and he's stuck in the present, what will he do?

Die a meaningless death so that the writer isn't confined to writing "______ is coming. I know I've been there."

 

[Ice]

See, I really loved this arc, thought it was great, awesome new direction for the X-Men were this can really lead to interesting and superb stories...but just that Cable as Wolverine bums me. Not enough to kill the joy, but enough to bum nonetheless.

 

[Lynx]

See, I really loved this arc, thought it was great, awesome new direction for the X-Men were this can really lead to interesting and superb stories...but just that Cable as Wolverine bums me. Not enough to kill the joy, but enough to bum nonetheless.

That's pretty much my feeling, too. While I didn't love this arc, I thought it was pretty good, but the Cable is Wolverine thing just annoys me.

Why does it annoy me?

Because instead of having two seperate characters to build on, they are now the same character. Wolverine becomes Cable. If Kirkman takes alternate timeline route, we end up with the beginning of the jumbled mess that is 616 X-men continuity. If the future is set, then the current Wolverine becomes stale and Cable becomes stale. We now know exactly how Wolverine will react in future stories and we know everything there is to know about Cable.

 

[E]

I liked it. I hate the sensationalized cliffhangers - of course Chuck isn't dead - but the story was good and I, for one, liked the take on Cable.

 

[ProjectX2]

I loved this arc. Excellent art, intriguing story, and a very good ultimization for Cable... even if he is Wolverine. The only con I can think of is that some of Kirkman's dialogue was a bit corny, like the "X-Men! Go limp!" line, which is hilarious.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

It looks like the site went from hating Kirkman's UXM to loving it.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

It looks like the site went from hating Kirkman's UXM to loving it.

I wouldn't say that. His other 10 issues were awful. This arc was merely a step up. It was solid---but it left so much stuff open and unexplained.

I was really hoping they would explain more about Cable.



But meh....those are just the thoughts of one man.