Ultimates 2 #7 discussion (spoilers)

[E]

To me it sounded more like the traitor was saying "solidier" in a condescending way. This makes me think that the traitor is someone who thinks that people who join the military are a bunch of fools for being so willing to take orders without question. True this could be me projecting my own belief that it's wasp. The thing that frustrates me most of all is that we won't find out who's right until September!

Exactly. It came across as sarcastic to me. Good call.

 

[Ice]

It didnt really come off as sarcastic, cuz than they would've bolded/italized that.

 

[E]

It didnt really come off as sarcastic, cuz than they would've bolded/italized that.

Not necessarily.

 

[Ice]

I know. But when something like that is meant to be like that, its done that way. Still, when the traitor said soldier, it really didnt come off as sarcastic. Maybe if he said "Now who's being a stupid soldier" or worded another way. But just "Now who's being stupid, soldier"...

 

[Nurhachi]

Could the traitor be wanda? Then she could kill hawkeye in 616 and Ultimate! Would that not break the internet in half, lol. Aaah im tired leave me alone.

 

[SeAcoW]

Could the traitor be wanda? Then she could kill hawkeye in 616 and Ultimate! Would that not break the internet in half, lol. Aaah im tired leave me alone.

yeah.....it would... :roll:

 

[Guijllons]

Well, just read the issue, and cor! Now I wish we could have regular issues of it again, another two months before we see this continue.

What I found interesting is that Cap seems to have gone from a leader of the Ultimates to more of a support role. He was sneaking about rather than being involved in the actual assault, and had to rely on Quicksilver to save him. Not really the Cap we're used to.
But this just leads to Millar's leading to Cap being the Wolf, which I just can't see.

The Jan and Hank talk, and the beginning of the Clint family home scene all point to Cap being a bit rubbish too. This is def an anti-Cap propaganda issue.

And, I just thought it kicked *** seeing Hawkeye kick *** in the kitchen. Death by spoons, rock on.

But this is the odd thing isn't it. Which Ultimate could kill kids? Natasha is about it.

Of course we can say that Loki is controlling people, or that Clint's family weren't human, but based on what we really have right now in our hands.. it's pretty limiting for the choices we are given. And I need to re-read the Thor and Tony talk, I'm sure there has to be something in their that I've missed. Otherwise it's just covering old ground and reminding us of old facts. Which doesn't feel like Millar's style to me.

One irk with the issue. Wanda apparently was almost too drunk to say the words for her disappearing spell.

SPELL??!!! MAGIC!!! What?? Well, we'll see. It will probably never be explained more than that. And I've come to the belief that magic is ok in the UU if it just isn't made a big deal of, explained, or is the crux of any storyline in any shape or form. Wanda's powers are open to plenty of translation as is, so just opening the box and putting it in a corner without really looking too deeply at it works fine for me.

And so, who are these guys? It must be HYDRA, right? And since this book relies on America's actions, with American members, it makes sense that the group mentioned wouldn't be American. And well, Natasha isn't American.

Reaching? Maybe.

Oh, the Loki/Kid thing. I buy it. the hair and the wearing of green.

And.. why were these guys watching Hank and Jan?

And.. why kill Clint's family anyway? It's all very well and good saying "ooh, bad" but they could have just killed Clint with a sniper if they wanted. And they took time out to kill the kid before Clint. Why do that is they were not planning to make Clint suffer by staying alive. This is terrorism not assassination. They are sending a message. But why?

And.. If the US is going against what Thor recommends in regards to it's middle east attacks, then what are this group fighting for? What is Loki's aim? Who's the good guy?

More And's to follow after a re-read.

Oh, a final And. With the title being grand theft america, then Cap could be possessed. But I think that's kinda lame.

 

[E]

and had to rely on Quicksilver to save him. Not really the Cap we're used to.

I didn't really get the sense that Quicksilver was "saving" him as much as it was just part of the plan. It's Captain America...I'm sure if there was a problem with the plan he could've taken those guys out.

The Jan and Hank talk, and the beginning of the Clint family home scene all point to Cap being a bit rubbish too. This is def an anti-Cap propaganda issue.

Dissention in the ranks. Sounds like something Loki would cook up, definitely.

And.. why were these guys watching Hank and Jan?

Next on the list after Hawkeye...or watching over their bosses?

 

[Guijllons]

I didn't really get the sense that Quicksilver was "saving" him as much as it was just part of the plan. It's Captain America...I'm sure if there was a problem with the plan he could've taken those guys out.

Absolutely. It was just a device used by Millar to show that Cap isn't the superman that we're all led to believe.
We've seen him before enter a building full of armed soldiers to rescue hostages, and all the soldiers drop their weapons. We know that Cap could have taken them out, but he may not have got far enough from the site before it gets blasted.

If Millar wanted us to see Cap as a hero, he'd have had him storming in alongside the Giant Men and kicking some serious backside. But he wasn't, he was in a support role, avoiding the guards. He said that he had been spotted 15 seconds ago. That's not the all guns blazing Cap of before.

Millar is making us think that Cap is weak.

 

[Friday]

Millar is making us think that Cap is weak.

Or that, dispite all the tech, chemicals, and support that he's still human.

 

[Guijllons]

Or that, dispite all the tech, chemicals, and support that he's still human.

Given the context, maybe that should be "only human".

 

[Ice]

I got this idea:

What if no one died at Hawkeyes place? What if that was all staged to make it look like someone attempted on his life? No one really died, we just think they did. Like, this was all part of a plan. So people would think hes dead,or something. What they said could've just been "scripted", incase maybe anyone was hearing in.

But than theres the thing about the guys he killed, cuz dont know how you can fake that.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

I think that Millar is trying to show that Cap relies on his team. This is a different side of Cap that we haven't seen much. Usually Cap is portrayed as the one man army who doesn't want or need anyone elses help. This was more of the way Cap was portrayed in WWII. I like that Millar is slowly and subtly showing Cap as a team player.

 

[ProjectX2]

I think that Millar is trying to show that Cap relies on his team. This is a different side of Cap that we haven't seen much. Usually Cap is portrayed as the one man army who doesn't want or need anyone elses help. This was more of the way Cap was portrayed in WWII. I like that Millar is slowly and subtly showing Cap as a team player.

That, and his supersoldier serum is dying out.

 

[Solaris]

woah!
sweet mother of jesus...or something

a breathtaking issue.

got two questions though:

laura (hawkeye's wife) is about to go to bed, and clint makes this comment about 'nicola is gonna be through in a couple of hours, so grab a catnap while you can'. who is nicola, a baby? or an older child? and what do they mean by 'is gonna be through' - i dont understand.
and, we didnt see that child taken/killed.

the conversation between thor and tony: thor says 'you have one last chance before they retaliate, before they turn on you'. seeing that we have seen hawkeye eliminated in this issue, and someone is already watching the wasp and/or hank, maybe tony is next on the 'hit list'.

why? like guijllons said, who is the group behind this? what are thier possible motives?

it's all veeeery interesting.

 

[marvelman]

the more i think about it, the more i believe that millar saved hawkeye with wanda's teleporting spell.

i mean, it would be really sucky if he didn't. and if he doesn't kill hawkeye, that leads to a perfect way for fury to find out and go after the traitor as the upcoming solilcit says. of course, he could just find out from wanda.

 

[Guijllons]

Well, a few issues ago Cap did say that he didn't feel like he did a lot in the fight (against Thor). And again, he didn't really play the main part in the fight.

This is the guy that faced off against the Skrull commander guy and kicked the Hulk in the nuts. Not to mention taking out a terrorist cell in a hostage situation single handedly.

Also, there's no reason why Quicksilver couldn't have done the job that Cap was doing on his own. He was there, he provided the way out. And less effectively with Cap on his shoulders.

Cap has taken a lesser role, or Millar is playing it that way. Either way, it points to Cap not being a happy bunny.

 

[SeAcoW]

I was thinking about something. There are things worse then dying. What if the traitor shoots out Hawkeyes eys? Or maybe shoots of a finger? That would make Hawkeye totally hadicap/ruin his life. And killing all the things hawkeye loves. Perfect for the traitor !

 

[Guijllons]

I was thinking about something. There are things worse then dying. What if the traitor shoots out Hawkeyes eys? Or maybe shoots of a finger? That would make Hawkeye totally hadicap/ruin his life. And killing all the things hawkeye loves. Perfect for the traitor !

Yeah, I'd already posted something that effect earlier. But this killing of his family really has to be the lot, right? Hopefully.

 

[SeAcoW]

Yeah, I'd already posted something that effect earlier. But this killing of his family really has to be the lot, right? Hopefully.

Didn't see that sorry! I wanna see Hawkeye totally pwned and to kill him off is NOT millar style. What about making hawkeye a blind-legolas-soldier-phyco. :roll: Dreaming ... or am I ? :shifty: