V for Vendetta movie discussion

I hate the wachowski brothers those crossdressing *******s.... The only good matrix was the first one then it went down hill... Man I hope this movie is good or I'm gonna be as mad as Natalie Portman with a shaved head (sorry had to get my pot shot in)
Thanks for the link. I'd not read the Alan Moore fansite stuff. Thought I'd comment on some of this. Consider it my "Vendetta Manifesto".

He indicates his mask


"This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vangquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V."


Are you like, a crazy-person?

Okay, let's give the Wachowski's the benefit of the doubt. They wanted to play with alliteration and reinforce the use of the letter 'V' throughout the film, and have tried to make a speech in which most of the words in the speech begin with 'V'. The question is; "Can you write such a speech?" The answer is a yes. However, they obviously did not answer the immediate follow-up and much more important question: "Does it work?" The answer is a no. Not only is it childish in appearance and delivery - but it makes no sense whatsoever. I have re-read this speech a dozen times, and I don't have a clue what it's supposed to be saying. Forget the fact that there is no discernable subtext to the speech - there's no text regardless. It's nonsense. It's just like they wrote a speech and then ran it through a thesaurus. It's just a terrible, terrible speech. And if that wasn't bad enough, V is supposed to be a larger-than-life character, embodying huge archetypal forces of chaos, anarchy, and change. He's supposed to be aspirational. In one of the introductory scenes, he is immediately depreciated and diminished by a young woman. It works against itself.

alanmoorefansite said:
the reviewer also reports that at the movie's denouement, the crowd all wear V's mask. Because nothing says anarchy better than dressing up in the same uniform.

I'm sorry, but I think they should take the last sentence, put it into an envelope and send it to the Wachowski Brothers. This must be one of the enormous plot holes in the film.

Screw that. Give it to a skywriter, and have it emblazoned across the sky for all to see in 100ft letters.

But, a favourite writer of mine, has defended the screenplay.

J Michael Straczynski said:
I saw this and though everything in me yells against getting into these things, I have got to respond. Understand: I work with Marvel, I have no vested interest in defending DC or Alan or anyone or anything else. The anonymous individual who sent AiCN his 'review' has his head well and duly up his butt. That he had a copy of the script is obvious; that he understood it, less so. There's an old saying: a book is like a mirror, if an *** peers in, you can't expect an apostle to peer out. This person clearly has no idea what's actually going on in that script despite having read it (or having it read to him). You can take anything -- ANYthing -- and by casting it in a certain light, make it sound stupid. 'Oh, and at the end of Blade Runner, there's this REALLY stupid scene where the android guy's, like, hugging a pigeon and talking about moons on fire.' It's all in how you phrase it. Making fun of something is easy. About a month ago, I got hold of the V script, the very same draft that this anonymous assassin cites. As a fan of Alan's work, and the V books in particular, I sat down, eager to read it. What I read blew my brains out through the back of my head. I think it's one of the smartest, sharpest, insightful and well-crafted scripts I've ever read. It's emotional, evocative, heart-rending, biting, sharp, relentless and just plain garden variety powerful. It's not just a good film, it's an *important* film, and there's a great deal of subtlety and nuance in it that was clearly lost on the idiot that read the script so he could make fun of it and stir the pot. So there is no 'consensus.' All you've got is one anonymous guy who takes a few things out of context to make them look stupid, revealing his own mendacity and cupidity in the process. As someone who's not just written over two hundred produced scripts and read hundreds more, someone who is a fan of Alan's work, I'm telling you straight-up, with absolutely no agenda: the 'V for Vendetta' script is a work of freaking genius. As will be proven soon enough.

Well... I dunno. I trust JMS, but that speech is awful. But I'm willing to accept it's out of context and may just be a bad 30 seconds in a 2 hour work of genius. This is JMS, I respect him as a writer and trust in his opinion... but, then I come across this...

Alan Moore said:
It was imbecilic; it had plot holes you couldn't have got away with in Whizzer And Chips in the nineteen sixties. Plot holes no one had noticed... They don't know what British people have for breakfast, they couldn't be bothered. 'Eggy in a basket' apparently. Now the US have 'eggs in a basket,' whish is fried bread with a fried egg in a hole in the middle. I guess they thought we must eat that as well, and thought 'eggy in a basket' was a quaint and Olde Worlde version. And they decided that the British postal service is called Fedco. They'll have thought something like, 'well, what's a British version of FedEx... how about FedCo?' A friend of mine had to point out to them that the Fed, in FedEx comes from 'Federal Express.' America is a federal republic, Britain is not.

I think this kinda speaks for itself. I don't know about you, but I think Moore is more on the ball than JMS on this one. I'm sorry, I live in the UK, and I'm not British - but I know there is no such thing as 'Eggy in a basket'. The Wachowski Brothers could've asked me, "What is the British version of FedEx" and I'd have responded, "Royal Mail." It's a bit despicable to be honest. If the details don't hold up, neither will the structure.

So, I think V is going to suck balls. Not because it won't be faithful to the comic, but because it's atrociously written. What about you?
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The poster looks good, albleit it's a standard action movie slop-job with V in the place of Bruce Willis.

Moore could have and would have sued WB if they had placed his name on the poster (since he specifically had his name removed from the project) and wound up with a fat, out-of-court settlement. I can forgive Warner Bros. for keeping his name off the poster. A fan knows who came up with V. An average movie yokel would have been like "Who the **** is Alan Moore?" Its not exactly the same as crediting some like Stephen King. It won't bring in the teeming masses, the Wachowski connection will. Thats the studio's doing. The Wachowski's aren't BAD filmmakers, Bound and the original Matrix were both good movies, they've just gotten a bad rep because the other two Matrix's sucked. I still don't think they were the proper writers for this project and I'm unsure of the direction and production though.
Firstly, Bound is pretty good. The Matrix, the original, is dull as ****e. I found it very entertaining the first time I saw it and loved it - but since then, every viewing became more and more trite and dull, because once you get used to the special effects, and the concept, the story and characters are not interesting enough to warrant multiple viewings. In my opinion, The Matrix is vastly overrated.

Secondly, I don't mind them not using Alan Moore, I just despise the inference that they created it. The line could have read, "An uncompromising vision of the future." (And I doubt it is uncompromising.) Elsewhere, in another sentence, it says, "From the directors of the Matrix trilogy." Putting these two sentences together infers that the Wachowski's created V from Vendetta - and they did not. Separating them through grammar and space, allows it to be true and a selling point.

But yes, the poster does look good. :D
Coming this November is "V for Vendetta," starring Natalie Portman (with shaved head) and Hugo Weaving. It's written and produced by the Wachowski brothers, who made the "Matrix" trilogy.

Set in the near future, "Vendetta" is a series created in the '80s by Alan Moore, one of the most respected writers in comics. Moore's previous forays to the big screen haven't gone well, with duds like "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" and "Constantine." He has already been very critical of the Wachowski brothers' script, calling it "imbecilic."

A delay on the release date of "Vendetta" also seems possible given that the hero, V, blows up London's Parliament and subway system.

Moore's "Watchmen" is also in early preproduction, with Paul Greengrass ("Bourne Supremacy") to direct. The landmark graphic novel takes place in an opposite world where President Nixon enjoys extreme popularity as he leads the U.S. to victory in Vietnam. Superheroes are real and must register with the government.

"As sacred as 'Spider-Man' is, 'Watchmen' is even more sacred," says Weiland. "It's probably the one all comic fans want to see made, but it's also the one we dread the most. If they screw that one up, big trouble."

I'm kind of scared to see this. I've never read the origanal but if the creator hates it. It's got to suck.
Sci Fi Wire caught producer Joel Silver last weekend at Comicon, and he talked a little about Alan Moore's stance on the film. "He doesn't really want to be involved in this process, so he won't be involved. I know it's a faithful transition between the graphic novel that Alan and David [Lloyd] created and the script that the [Wachowski] boys wrote. And I had met Alan years ago, when we had lunch one day with Alan and [Moore's Watchmen co-creator] Dave Gibbons years ago when we acquired these projects. But, you know, since that time, a lot has happened with other Alan Moore projects, and he just doesn't want to be involved in these projects. But David liked the script. He liked how it was kind of faithful to the material, and I'm happy to have him with us to talk to you about the material." We covered Lloyd's opinion of the film in our coverage.

Umm, sounds interesting...
thee great one said:
I'm kind of scared to see this. I've never read the origanal but if the creator hates it. It's got to suck.
I don't disagree with you, but I do disagree with your logic. If the original creators were expected to be a barometer of the film's quality then that means John Byrne's vitriolic statements about a black Alicia Masters would actually be meaningful and the original Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory musical movie would be terrible because Roald Dahl said so.
... YOU FOOL! Never tell Ourchair he's "Right"! It only multiplies his power a thousand fold!
I just watched the trailer, and I'm a little interested. :D But is there a line in the comic about November 5th, because they say that even though the film is coming out on the fourth.
ultimatedjf said:
I just watched the trailer, and I'm a little interested. :D But is there a line in the comic about November 5th, because they say that even though the film is coming out on the fourth.

Where'd you see it? If you saw it online could you post a link?
I saw the trailer the other day. It looks good, but thats the point of trailers. I do say I think the film will be beautiful visually. The question of how it will come off thematically and dramatically is still at large. Weaving sounds great as V though, and I do think Natalie Portman will be ok.
I haven't read the original either, but the trailer looks quite cool.

"Remember, remember, the 5th of November."
ultimatedjf said:
I just watched the trailer, and I'm a little interested. :D But is there a line in the comic about November 5th, because they say that even though the film is coming out on the fourth.

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...

it's a little poem commemorating the 'gunpowder plot' to blow up parliament, most famously headed up by guy fawkes, the lovely man who v's mask is based off of.

guy fawkes day (november the fifth in england) is a fun day to burn effigies of guy fawkes so that treason shall not be forgotten.

oh and yes, it is indeed mentioned in the comic.

post script: someone correct me if i'm wrong.

post post script: the preview looks pretty cool. if the preview were measure of a movie, i'd say things look very bright. but that's not true. but, a question/challenge. how many lines in the preview are directly from the comic? i read v for vendetta about a month ago, and it all seems pretty direct to me-- aside from a little shift of flags (and really, did anyone like the lightning bolt jazz?). anyone bold enough to try?

post post post script: i don't really need to do this post script nonsense, do i?
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