Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day (#546-567) (Spoilers)

[Fredrik Martinsson]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

My current signature explains why Joe Queseda is a ****ing idiot.

You spelled his name wrong.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

You spelled his name wrong.

He doesn't deserve to have his name spelled correctly.

 

[Bass]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Finished reading the rest of JQ pt III.

I'm 100% on Joe Q's side on this matter. If he had done this in 2001 it would've been loved like Morrison's NEW X-MEN or the ULTIMATE line.

This has completely revitalized my faith in Marvel.

Not so much the quality of the mini - but the decision-making behind it on WHY retcon his marriage at all. Hands down, great decision-making.

 

[Ice]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I find it hilarious (and hypocritical?) that they didn't want to retcon the last 20 years or Spider-Man, but they let Peter David retcon the entire run of Bruce Jones into nothing but a dream of Hulk's, making his (Bruce Jones) whole work worthless.

Way to go, Joe!

 

[ultimatedjf]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

JMS explains his side of the Story.

Bravo, JMS. Bravo.




*djf is a proud member of the 'Wow, Quesada really ****ed it up big time' side*

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

You know something, I love the fact that this site has people on both sides of this matter, as well as people in the middle.

That's why this site is so good, we have people with varying opinions, yet we all treat each other with respect on those opinions. No one is really giving the others a hard time about it that I can see anyways.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

No. The ending was, "Okay, we dissolve the marriage without having to have them be divorced. Mephisto magics it so we get classic Spidey back."

JMS then wrote, "The last 20 years never happened."

Marvel said, "We can't do that, can you try to write what we originally agreed upon, please?"

JMS said, "I think this is the better story."

Marvel; "Seriously - this will mess up all the Spidey titles we've got ready to go. It causes an enormous amount of problems."

JMS; "Okay. I'll do what I can."

That's it. No big controversy or "WRITE WHAT WE TELL YOU STRACYZNKASZORGI!"

As for Joe Q - I agree with him on the crappiness of Spidey's marriage and to be honest, in a year or two, I think most people will go, "Spidey is better NOW than he was THEN".

I really think this is one of those, "It sucks a bit now, but it truly will be worth it later" things.

STILL don't get why having him get divorced didn't work.

Finished reading the rest of JQ pt III.

I'm 100% on Joe Q's side on this matter. If he had done this in 2001 it would've been loved like Morrison's NEW X-MEN or the ULTIMATE line.

This has completely revitalized my faith in Marvel.

Not so much the quality of the mini - but the decision-making behind it on WHY retcon his marriage at all. Hands down, great decision-making.

I don't see why the marriage affected the way the writers would write him.


You know why I think people with like him better in the next year or two. Because they have new blood. JMS has wrote Spider-Man for years.

Years.

Now he get some people with brand new original ideas. No Civil War tie-ins. No random suit changing every story. No random shock twist. No giant crossovers.

We get new writers, new artists, one title, and totally original creative freedom.

It has nothing to do with the marriage.





and this was News-A-Rame review of their interview.

"So what does Mephisto do?" I ask.

"He makes everybody forget Peter's Spider-Man."

"Uh, huh. So Aunt May's still in the hospital --"

"No, he saves Aunt May."

"But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he's Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection."

"No, he makes that go away too."

"Okay...:

"Then he wakes up in her house."

"The house that was burned down?"

"Right."

"But how --"

"Mephisto undoes that as well."

"Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they're alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?"

"It's all part of the spell."

"And Doc Strange can't tell?"

"No,"

"And the newspaper articles? News footage?"

"Joe, it's been forgotten."

"I'm just asking is that stuff there or not there?"

"Not there. And Peter's web shooters are back."

"Is this the same spell or a different spell?"

"Same spell."

"How does making people forget he's Spidey bring back his web shooters?"

"It's magic, okay?"

"I see. And Harry's back."

"Right."

"And Mephisto does this too."

"Yep."

"So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?"

"It's --"

"Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he's not back from the dead, then you've changed the continuity you said you didn't want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there's a grave, and people remember him dying --"

"Mephisto changes THEIR memories too."

"-- or he's effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he's been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity's been violated going back to 1971.

How do you explain that?"

"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

 

[Ice]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

You know why I think people with like him better in the next year or two. Because they have new blood. JMS has wrote Spider-Man for years.

Years.

Now he get some people with brand new original ideas. No Civil War tie-ins. No random suit changing every story. No random shock twist. No giant crossovers.

We get new writers, new artist, one title, and totally original creative freedom.

With this, I agree.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

With this, I agree.

Ditto.

(although the JMS/Romita Jr. half of the run is the definitive Amazing Spider-Man for me... and always will be)

 

[Random]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I don't see why the marriage affected the way the writers would write him.


Now he get some people with brand new original ideas. No Civil War tie-ins. No random suit changing every story. No random shock twist. No giant crossovers.

We get new writers, new artists, one title, and totally original creative freedom.

It has nothing to do with the marriage.

That's exactly what I think, Spider-man stories weren't handycapped by the marriage, but of all the meaningly crap they keep forcing in.And I be you they'll continue to make the same damn mistakes after this

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Creative freedom isn't the be-all and end-all it's made out to be.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Part four

It includes this gem of a line.

The little girl was again a peek at what Spider-Man books would have been like if we allowed him to continue along the path of growing as if he were a real person.

 

[E]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Part four

It includes this gem of a line.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bass]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

You know something, I love the fact that this site has people on both sides of this matter, as well as people in the middle.

That's why this site is so good, we have people with varying opinions, yet we all treat each other with respect on those opinions. No one is really giving the others a hard time about it that I can see anyways.

It's why we have a super secret mods-only forum.

I find it hilarious (and hypocritical?) that they didn't want to retcon the last 20 years or Spider-Man, but they let Peter David retcon the entire run of Bruce Jones into nothing but a dream of Hulk's, making his (Bruce Jones) whole work worthless.

Way to go, Joe!

REALLY?!!? How the **** did they do that? I want an issue number to download to see thiat!

 

[SSJmole]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

It's why we have a super secret mods-only forum.

Is porn allowed there?

 

[Gemini]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

okay i read the issue

and without all the ramifications that this story is going to have, i have to say this was a masterfully done issue, the dialogue and emotional feel were great, and Quesada's art was the best i've ever seen from him, especially the ending.

with the ramifications though, IMHO this is a travesty, and unless ASM is taking place in it's own little pocket-universe ala HoM this could very well be the biggest disaster I've seen in comics. I mean so much unnecesary stuff is being undone i mean why is Harry back? is he only back so they can turn him into Menace which he so obviously is? what's the point of undestroying Peter's House? bringing back the Webshooters? why re-mask Peter? Brand New Day just has to be a closed end deal it just has to because what this does to the entire Marvel Universe is just to huge to not explain properly. While I do not like how it got here I have to say the creative teams and promise of decent stories that BND seems to present has me excited, i just wish that it didn't have to come to this.

oh and am i the only person who hopes that they don't do these three issue rotations going on for very long? this book could end up suffering exactly how Wolverine has been, a book like this (especially with this brand new direction) needs an ongoing writer, this is the major flaw i see with this thrice-monthly system that's going to be coming up.

so I'm set on wait and see for now, this could end up being great if handled well, but if this collapse's this could be the biggest mistake since offering Reginald Hudlin a writing job

 

[Ice]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

It's why we have a super secret mods-only forum.



REALLY?!!? How the **** did they do that? I want an issue number to download to see thiat!

I don't remember the numbering, but I know the arc was called "Tempist Fugit."

 

[Gemini]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

there is so much wrong with this image, Parker Luck? 4th wall breaking narration? didn't Loeb's arc on Wolverine prove that it doesn't work?

 

[E]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

One of the core principles of Spider-Man is that there most certainly is no such thing as "Parker Luck".

Ugh.

 

[SSJmole]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

there is so much wrong with this image, Parker Luck? 4th wall breaking narration? didn't Loeb's arc on Wolverine prove that it doesn't work?

I like 4th wall breaking narration

One of the core principles of Spider-Man is that there most certainly is no such thing as "Parker Luck".

Ugh.

:lol: Agreed

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Mephisto built parker a dreamworld.

That is how they ret-con this.

 

[ourchair]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

No. The ending was, "Okay, we dissolve the marriage without having to have them be divorced. Mephisto magics it so we get classic Spidey back."

JMS then wrote, "The last 20 years never happened."

Marvel said, "We can't do that, can you try to write what we originally agreed upon, please?"

JMS said, "I think this is the better story."

Marvel; "Seriously - this will mess up all the Spidey titles we've got ready to go. It causes an enormous amount of problems."

JMS; "Okay. I'll do what I can."

That's it. No big controversy or "WRITE WHAT WE TELL YOU STRACYZNKASZORGI!"

I totally agree with you.

A lot of people like to look for controversy where they can in the relationships between creative types and upper management, and thus will blow the tiniest disagreement out of proportion.

That said, without having read much of previous discussion on this whole One More Day situation --- and I have only started commenting on it because I've only started catching up --- I have more remarks.

I felt like Peter's decision to save his aunt's life was completely selfish. It was all about how he couldn't live with the guilt, rather than her death itself that seemed to matter more to him.

I understand that guilt is pretty much a theme that the character has always wrestled with, but it felt like the choice he had to make was less about May vs. Mary Jane, and more about what Peter could "live with". In that sense, it cheapened the situation because both the marriage and May's life were reduced to commodities in which the lives involved didn't matter.

I think the Mephisto Ex Machina only made it worse, because instead of it being a literal choice to be made --- as Bass has cleverly pointed out some months ago --- it was a choice that was made without suspense: The time in which May had and the time which the decision had to made was entirely up to Mephisto, rather than the natural forces of deathification.

Hypothetically, you could have Mephisto give Peter days and days to decide while he magicks May's deathification process for as long as his patience lasts. (Which of course, would buy the situation time to be resolved by other deus ex machinas, but oh wait, Dr. Strange 'can't do anything')

Another thing: The goal of One More Day was ostensibly to reset continuity --- even though Peter's unmasking was followed by promises that there wouldn't be any undo buttons for a year or two --- in order to make the character single again and more accessible to a YOUNGER audience, and stripped of old guy things like 'marriage', 'children' and 'dying parent figures'.

As I've said earlier, the means in accomplishing this was just stupid because it basically told us that Marvel is run by an editor that is SOOOOOO morally conscious as to refuse to depict smoking in comics, yet is okay with having Peter Parker --- arguably one of the most morally introspective, albeit neurotic, characters in comicsdom --- make a deal with the Devil.

And as I've said above, the decision was never about Peter trying to do something FOR May, it was about Peter trying to do something for HIMself. Let's face it: Peter refuses to experience the passing of his aunt, the way a mature person should and the way a 'role model' should encourage younger readers to.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

the thing that bothers me about this whole deal with the devil thing is that

Peter has me Ghost Rider, at least a few times, he should know by now that this won't turn out like he hopes. Watch in 6 month's May will die anyway just so Mephisto can see Peter in even more Anguish

 

[Gemini]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I like 4th wall breaking narration

would you like him to start a drinking game?

 

[SSJmole]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Peter has me Ghost Rider, at least a few times, he should know by now that this won't turn out like he hopes. Watch in 6 month's May will die anyway just so Mephisto can see Peter in even more Anguish

Nothing ever turns out like peter hopes , From his daughter dying to trying to be a wrestler to getting a new costume that makes him stronger.


Everything goes wrong for him because he's peter. So with this he's probably like "if i do it'll go wrong , if i don't I'll loose may ..... I'll do it . if it goes wrong it will just create a new villain or something for me to beat up , not a problem"

would you like him to start a drinking game?

Drinking is not a game it's just something you constantly do , what's next a breathing game :lol:

 

[the watcher]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

See a six page preview of issue #546 at: http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0801/04/marvelfirsts.htm

Also see previews of GHOST RIDER #19, HULK #1, MARVEL ADVENTURES HULK #7, MIGHTY AVENGERS #7, NOVA #10, ONSLAUGHT: REBORN #5, PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #15, THE TWELVE #1,& WOLVERINE #61.

 

[E]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I felt like Peter's decision to save his aunt's life was completely selfish. It was all about how he couldn't live with the guilt, rather than her death itself that seemed to matter more to him.

I understand that guilt is pretty much a theme that the character has always wrestled with

This is an excellent point - one of the main themes of this book has always been guilt and dealing with it in order to do what is right; living with the consequences of your actions, no matter how bad.

But there's no "dealing with" or "living with" going on here. He doesn't remember anything! This does absolutely ZERO for character development; all it does is give bad writers who are unable to write within the confines of 40+ years of character development an excuse to suck.

We already have an Ultimate Spider-Man, fer ****'s sake.

 

[ourchair]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

This is an excellent point - one of the main themes of this book has always been guilt and dealing with it in order to do what is right; living with the consequences of your actions, no matter how bad.

But there's no "dealing with" or "living with" going on here. He doesn't remember anything! This does absolutely ZERO for character development; all it does is give bad writers who are unable to write within the confines of 40+ years of character development an excuse to suck.

God, I almost forgot about that whole "he doesn't remember anything" business.

Now it's even worse than I thought.

First he makes a deal so that he doesn't have to live with losing Aunt May.

Now he doesn't even remember making the deal.

Double arrested development.

If we had sigpics, you can bet your booties I'd have one for this turn of events, as I haven't felt this annoyed since Ultimate Iron Man (yes, I took The Other and Illuminati into account).

 

[Dancanread]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I hope JMS gets a commission..

Cafe Press

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bass]

Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

there is so much wrong with this image, Parker Luck? 4th wall breaking narration? didn't Loeb's arc on Wolverine prove that it doesn't work?

What if Peter's talking to someone? Then it's not 'breaking the 4th wall'.

Parker Luck - I assumed he meant his continuous BAD luck, and he's going, "Listen, here I am, kissing this super hot chick and you think this is my life, well let me explain something to you - I have THE PARKER LUCK. A virulent form of bad luck so intense, they can bottle it and sell it to X-Factor celebrities."

Alternatively - maybe he's lying. We'll see. I think it's not fair to jump to conclusions.

HOWEVER - I will say that I do not like the idea that MJ is retconned out of his love life and the next page is him MAKING OUT WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.

Too soon. Too soon. Emotionally, it feels like he's cheating.

I think the Mephisto Ex Machina only made it worse, because instead of it being a literal choice to be made --- as Bass has cleverly pointed out some months ago --- it was a choice that was made without suspense: The time in which May had and the time which the decision had to made was entirely up to Mephisto, rather than the natural forces of deathification.

Super points for "deathification".

And as I've said above, the decision was never about Peter trying to do something FOR May, it was about Peter trying to do something for HIMself. Let's face it: Peter refuses to experience the passing of his aunt, the way a mature person should and the way a 'role model' should encourage younger readers to.

That's a more mature ending but it doesn't solve a problem, which is Spider-Man is too far from his roots (and I agree).

I think, when Spidey is MARRIED, LIVING WITH THE AVENGERS, and UNMASKED, the last thing keeping him feel at all like Spidey is Aunt May. Kill her off, and he's just not Spidey anymore. And what you're getting isn't much better.

I think that idea is great for a "SPIDER-MAN: THE END".

For this - I don't care anymore. I'm excited about us having SPIDEY back. I'm sure the comics will still have sucky writers, but I'm just energized by it all.

I hope JMS gets a commission..

Cafe Press

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: