Why new super villains don't work out

[SSJmole]

Elton John?

If you're talking about him singing the Princess Di version Candle in the Wind, I totally agree.

NO NOT ELTON JOHN. :lol: What's wrong with you?

Twilight was pretty cool in buffy season 8 comic

:lol: Elton John

 

[Zombipanda]

NO NOT ELTON JOHN. :lol: What's wrong with you?

Exactly. Elton John is a terrible villain.

His costume is so gay.

 

[The Overlord]

You didn't make an argument for why he's a bad character. All you did was list facets of the character.

As for listing facets of why he could be a good character...? Sure, I'm game.

He's got a cool looking design. Thematically, he's as polarizing to the concept of Spider-Man as you can possibly be. Whereas Spider-Man represents great power and great responsibility, Carnage represents great power with neither responsibility nor reason. The question then is, what would be the responsible way to deal with Carnage? He seems utterly alien, but there's still something wicked and human on the inside. As you mentioned, whenever he gets free (and he proves that he'll get free again and again), he'll immediately set in to butchering people. And that's not just the suit talking. It's Cletus feeling the same way. So what's the responsible way to deal with that? Is it to keep locking the guy up, knowing he'll always get free, or is it something else? Just because Carnage has been portrayed badly in the past doesn't mean he can't be a good character. Most villains were pretty goofy and one-sided for most of their existence.

Those facets are what make the character so uninteresting in the first place.

The fact is Spider-Man should fight serial killers as much as he should go into
space, which is almost never. He doesn't fit into Spidey's world, Spidey titles are not place for serial killers, he should fight Ghost rider, its like having the Justice League fight a rapist.

As for how Spidey should deal with him, shouldn't the government have just killed him long ago? So why don't like the character, in real world he would have executed long ago for his crimes, in MU he just escaped from asylum to go on killing spree every week.

The carnage just seems like an exploitive excuse for gorn.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Gorn

He doesn't even have a sense of style, at least bullseye and Joker are creative and stylish killers, carnage is just a thug with no sense of style, a goon with knife will give the same results as Carnage, nothing is creative about him.

 

[SSJmole]

Those facets are what make the character so uninteresting in the first place.

The fact is Spider-Man should fight serial killers as much as he should go into
space, which is almost never.

but spider-man fights criminals all the time. Serial killer fits as well as Kingpin the mob boss.

For the record I don't like carnage. But I think he fits in the Spider-man world

 

[Victor Von Doom]

This thread is totally off topic.

This thread is about why super-villains don't utilize their Gold's Gym membership. Not why are they so lame, poorly written, etc.




Lock this thread.

 

[Titan]

This thread is totally off topic.

This thread is about why super-villains don't utilize their Gold's Gym membership.

Would you want to get on a rowing machine after someone like Clayface or Radioactive Man used it? No thank you.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I would if it was Madame Masque or Giganta.

 

[The Overlord]

but spider-man fights criminals all the time. Serial killer fits as well as Kingpin the mob boss.

For the record I don't like carnage. But I think he fits in the Spider-man world

Spider-man fights bank robbers and mad scientists, not serial killers. Spider-Man is not supposed to be a dark book, so having serial killers as regular enemies doesn't fit the context.

 

[bluebeast]

This is all I have to say on the topic...

 

[The Overlord]

Okay, I think we are getting a bit off topic, besides the one example provided by Mole, can anyone think new villains introduced in the last 15 years that aren't: dead, turned into jokes or completely forgotten?

 

[SSJmole]

Okay, I think we are getting a bit off topic, besides the one example provided by Mole, can anyone think new villains introduced in the last 15 years that aren't: dead, turned into jokes or completely forgotten?

Just in comics or does Manga , cartoons , movies games ect.... count?

 

[Ultimate Houde]

The Governor from Walking Dead.

 

[Zombipanda]

Spider-man fights bank robbers and mad scientists, not serial killers. Spider-Man is not supposed to be a dark book, so having serial killers as regular enemies doesn't fit the context.

I think having your first love splattered over the side of a bridge is about as dark as you get. And let's not forget, Spider-Man's origin hinges on the death of his father figure. He fights organized crime and homicidal lunatics in masks. I think there's plenty of pathos to go around, dude.

Okay, I think we are getting a bit off topic, besides the one example provided by Mole, can anyone think new villains introduced in the last 15 years that aren't: dead, turned into jokes or completely forgotten?

off the top of my head?

Bane
Victor Zsasz
Doomsday
Cassandra Nova
Solaris, the Living Sun
Harley Quinn
Mercy Graves

I'm sure there's plenty of others.

I think you're missing the point. Characters need time to become interesting. Do you think half of Spider-Man's cast were anything but silly for the first span of their life? How about Batman's rogues? Superman's?

 

[bluebeast]

Okay, I think we are getting a bit off topic, besides the one example provided by Mole, can anyone think new villains introduced in the last 15 years that aren't: dead, turned into jokes or completely forgotten?

Some of the new Brand New Day villains show promise.

 

[Gemini]

Some of the new Brand New Day villains show promise.

HA!

good one!

 

[bluebeast]

HA!

good one!

I didn't read it but I thought people were saying they were cool. And I like the Hood so I don't see why that guy was bashing him.

 

[Zombipanda]

I didn't read it but I thought people were saying they were cool. And I like the Hood so I don't see why that guy was bashing him.

I liked the Hood. He's another one for the list.

 

[Gemini]

I didn't read it but I thought people were saying they were cool. And I like the Hood so I don't see why that guy was bashing him.

the general knee-cap that BND has had so far is that the villains are half-baked knock off's of pre-existing Spidey ones

but we've all had enough of this arguement that I'm not going to list off the comparison's becaise I'm getting tired of hearing people claim that Menace isn't a goblin when he is(and Marvel admits that in the newest Spidey solits).....also I'm totally calling that Menace is Roderick Kingsley

The Hood may work for awhile, or until Bendis get's tired of using him, but this whole Villain kingpin thing is so forced, really Bendis just looked for a new barely used character with a cool visual, and round-hole/square-pegged him into his current role

 

[Zombipanda]

the general knee-cap that BND has had so far is that the villains are half-baked knock off's of pre-existing Spidey one

but we've all had enough of this arguement that I'm not going to list off the comparison's becaise I'm getting tired of hearing people claim that Menace isn't a goblin when he is(and Marvel admits that in the newest Spidey solits).....also I'm totally calling that Menace is Roderick Kingsley

The Hood may work for awhile, or until Bendis get's tired of using him, but this whole Villain kingpin thing is so forced, really Bendis just looked for a new barely used character with a cool visual, and round-hole/square-pegged him into his current role

But the central character is still sound, even if Bendis uses him poorly. And Bendis does use him poorly, no doubting that.

 

[Gemini]

But the central character is still sound, even if Bendis uses him poorly. And Bendis does use him poorly, no doubting that.

The central character was never really a Villain though, I mean he was a two-bit crook, that you were meant too root for

and he kinda repented at the end of Beyond! (the exclamation mark was part of the books title, i'm not yelling)

really Bendis may aswell made a new character

But I still wana see the Hood fight Moon Knight and Cloak, because I think hooded cloaks are cool visuals

 

[The Overlord]

But the central character is still sound, even if Bendis uses him poorly. And Bendis does use him poorly, no doubting that.

Bendis put him into one of the pitfalls, Bendis wrote him as an "ultra bad@ss" who can defeat Wolverine with ease and boss around a bunch of villains (some of them not the type to take orders).

With hood it seemed he went too far, too fast, he would need a major rewrite to regain what made him appealing in the first place.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

The Governor from Walking Dead.

Probably the best villain in the past 2 years.







And I liked Bendis' use of The Hood.

 

[Zombipanda]

Oh. Add Hush to that list, too.

 

[bluebeast]

Oh. Add Hush to that list, too.

Though Hush does kind of fall into that long last friend category I do think he's a good character.

 

[The Overlord]

Oh. Add Hush to that list, too.

I thought Hush worked better as a one shot villain, I didn't like it when he came back.

 

[Willverine]

Probably the best villain in the past 2 years.

Agreed. The Governor was perfectly done, definitely one of Robert Kirkman's finest pieces of writing.

 

[TwilightEL]

Bendis put him into one of the pitfalls, Bendis wrote him as an "ultra bad@ss" who can defeat Wolverine with ease and boss around a bunch of villains (some of them not the type to take orders).

With hood it seemed he went too far, too fast, he would need a major rewrite to regain what made him appealing in the first place.

I say, give him another miniseries depicting how he went from Beyond to New Avengers. Show behind the scenes why and how he hired the villains he hired. If any cameos are particularly ridiculous, hand-wave them by claiming someone created holograms or simulations or robots or something to make Hood look tougher.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

I thought this was about why villains don't go to the gym. THIS IS A HORRIBLE TITLE!

 

[Gothamite]

I thought this was about why villains don't go to the gym. THIS IS A HORRIBLE TITLE!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

*Claps*

 

[thee great one]

I thought this was about why villains don't go to the gym. THIS IS A HORRIBLE TITLE!

I already made that jokeish.