Ultimates 3 #1-5 discussion [Loeb/Madureira] [spoilers]

Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Baxter said:
Dude. Marvel Adventures are awesome. Don't wish Loeb on them.
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What I take from this post is that you're 10 years old. My 11 year old daughter reads more advanced comics than this garbage.

Seriously.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

fenway said:
The 'Marvel doesn't care because the issues are selling' argument has some merit, but isn't/can't be entirely true.

If I were allowed to write Harry Potter books, they'd sell millions, and I'd be rich. If some fancy artist illustrated pages, and we numbered 100 000 of the books and called them 'special edition second printings', I'd sell multiple copies to people.

They'd still suck.

And so the owners of the Harry Potter properties would start thinking - just imagine if we'd put the exact same investment into this, but had an author that was good! Then the franchise would go on even longer, and we'd make even more money. All of JK Rowling's (Millar's) fans who LOVED the original will eventually stop buying crap stories about the characters they USED to love, and then it will be IMPOSSIBLE to re-start this franchise.

Loeb = money
good writer = money + future money (+, though incidentally, credibility)

I think Marvel sees this.
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Honestly, I have dropped Ultimates from my sub list indefinitely because of this. I know that a lot of people will say "this run on the Ultimates sucks" but they are still going to buy it. I am not one of those people. I spend upwards of $100 every time I go into the comic book store. That is $2.99 less per month (or whatever) that I will spend. I would hope that means something to my LCS just because I consider myself to be a "high-end customer" and I buy accordingly. My LCS loves me, for all intents and purposes, because I make them major cash... and I read every book I receive. Wether they end up in bags with boards or I give them to the local half-price bookstore after one read, I read every single comic that I buy. Hopefully there are enough people who are doing the same to send the message to Marvel that we're not going to buy this crappy book because Loeb has taken it from the heights that Millar and Hitch brought it to the gutter. Seriously, I gave it 3 issues to impress me and now I just want my ******* money back. Millar and Hitch gave us intrigue... real-world intrigue... compelling storylines and AWESOME artwork to justify Ultimates v1-2 being as late as they were between issues. I would rather wait 6 months from issue to issue for the quality they gave the reader to having the book be on time every month with the lackluster quality I see from Jeph Loeb... and I say Jeph Loeb because honestly, I like Joe Mad's art. It's not the greatest in terms of storytelling but it's pretty on a page.

Still... I dropped this from my sub list and gave issue #4 back to my retailer to prove a point. Art is cool but i want art and story to work together, you dig? That's just not the case with Ultimates v3. Not the case at all.

Loeb would be great with pretty much any 616 story. With the Ultimate universe, he's an ultimate failure, and I want my comic-buying dollar to reflect that.

If you're with me, do me a favor. Drop this title ASAP. Don't buy it in the hopes that it will get better... because it won't. Just drop it and therefore, send a message to the PTB at Marvel that you won't give Loeb the leeway to screw up the best comic book in the Ultimate Marvel canon. Hopefully in 1-2 years we can look back on this period of the Ultimates and say it was a total retcon.

LOEB SUCKS WITH ULTIMATES.

Seriously.

He sucks.

If I'm wrong and Ultimates v3 ends up being as good as anything Frank Miller did in the 80's, I will happily buy you the TPB collection of Ultimates 3. If not... fuggedaboutit. (good luck with that... Frank Miller put out Dark Knight Returns in '86. Loeb would have to pull a miracle out of his bunghole to match the quality of that.)
 
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Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

fenway said:
The 'Marvel doesn't care because the issues are selling' argument has some merit, but isn't/can't be entirely true.

If I were allowed to write Harry Potter books, they'd sell millions, and I'd be rich. If some fancy artist illustrated pages, and we numbered 100 000 of the books and called them 'special edition second printings', I'd sell multiple copies to people.

They'd still suck.

And so the owners of the Harry Potter properties would start thinking - just imagine if we'd put the exact same investment into this, but had an author that was good! Then the franchise would go on even longer, and we'd make even more money. All of JK Rowling's (Millar's) fans who LOVED the original will eventually stop buying crap stories about the characters they USED to love, and then it will be IMPOSSIBLE to re-start this franchise.

Loeb = money
good writer = money + future money (+, though incidentally, credibility)

I think Marvel sees this.
Click to expand...


Completely agree. Except for the last line. Not sure Marvel does see it. The announcement about the next Ultimates series will tell (assuming there will be more post Ultimatum). If Loeb's still on the title, obviously Marvel isn't listening.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Baxter said:
Dude. Marvel Adventures are awesome. Don't wish Loeb on them.
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Agreed. You should be ashamed of yourself, Willverine.

Willverine said:
What I take from this post is that you're 10 years old. My 11 year old daughter reads more advanced comics than this garbage.

Seriously.
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Wait, you're saying Marvel Adventures is more advanced than Ultimates 3?
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

no, he's saying the "advanced" non-marvel adventures titles are better then the Marvel Adventures titles and even his young daughter, who the Marvel Adventures titles are designed for sees it. No I think Willverine made it very clear that he doesn't put Ultimates 3 above much of anything. I agree with all of his points on that subject.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

:shock:

Is anyone else terrified that Willverine has an 11 year old daughter?
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Well, they let Ellis have a child so I guess anyone is allowed to do that kind of thing nowadays.

I just want to know where he kidnapped her from.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

I read it today and my only thought about it is:
Ultimates 3 needs to be retconned out.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Is it true Ultron compared itself to a vibrator and that Black Panther is Captain America? Or are people just messing with me? Because this comic sounds so bad, I don't know what to believe.
 
Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

ProjectX2 said:
Is it true Ultron compared itself to a vibrator and that Black Panther is Captain America? Or are people just messing with me? Because this comic sounds so bad, I don't know what to believe.
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It's absolutely true.

And Robo-Captain America recycled a line from T2 before we found out he was an evil robot. OoooooooooOOOOOO!!!! Foreshadowing!

Oh. And real Captain America apparently knows about the Ultrons. His plan apparently so far has been to dress up as the Black Panther while robo-Cap boogied in his place, and left the rest of the Ultimate in the dark about it to get menaced by the things.... I guess cuz he's skurred they're robots.
 
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Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

fenway said:
The 'Marvel doesn't care because the issues are selling' argument has some merit, but isn't/can't be entirely true.

If I were allowed to write Harry Potter books, they'd sell millions, and I'd be rich. If some fancy artist illustrated pages, and we numbered 100 000 of the books and called them 'special edition second printings', I'd sell multiple copies to people.

They'd still suck.

And so the owners of the Harry Potter properties would start thinking - just imagine if we'd put the exact same investment into this, but had an author that was good! Then the franchise would go on even longer, and we'd make even more money. All of JK Rowling's (Millar's) fans who LOVED the original will eventually stop buying crap stories about the characters they USED to love, and then it will be IMPOSSIBLE to re-start this franchise.

Loeb = money
good writer = money + future money (+, though incidentally, credibility)

I think Marvel sees this.
Click to expand...


It doesn't work that way. I mean people have been complaining about Loeb for years yet his books still sell which is why he keeps getting a paycheck because he's still making them money. That's business works.

They only way we can fix it is to threaten bodily harm to anyone who's about to buy an issue of U3.
 
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Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Venom Melendez said:
It doesn't work that way. I mean people have been complaining about Loeb for years yet his books still sell which is why he keeps getting a paycheck because he's still making them money. That's business works.

They only way we can fix it is to threaten bodily harm to anyone who's about to buy an issue of U3.
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Yes. Comic book mobs. Approve.

There's not enough hooliganism in comic book fans.
 
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Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

Venom Melendez said:
It doesn't work that way. I mean people have been complaining about Loeb for years yet his books still sell which is why he keeps getting a paycheck because he's still making them money. That's business works.

They only way we can fix it is to threaten bodily harm to anyone who's about to buy an issue of U3.
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Then I guess my question is why does Loeb 'sell'? Could it be that ANYONE could sell these titles? (Superman/Batman, Ultimates following Millar, Hulk after Planet Hulk/WWH and in anticipation of a Hulk movie). Could it be respected artists? (McGuinness, Mad, etc).

I guess what I'm saying is really rather vacuous:

If Loeb sells, but it has nothing to do with his skills, then wouldn't these books sell BETTER with a BETTER writer? Wouldn't that be smarter business?
I honestly think that Brubaker, or Millar, or even Bendis (a good writer in theory that spreads himself too thin... and ALSO, writes poop for months, just so he can tie it all together in an admittedly good 'event') on ANY of these titles would increase sales.

Just my opinion, though.
 
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Re: The Ultimates 3 #4 discussion (spoilers).

I wish Mark Millar would come back. :(

Although considering what he is letting movie moguls get away with doing on one of his OWN books... I don't think he is really gonna care that the characters he lovingly crafted for so long have been violated with a cactus in just 4 issues....
 
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