The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

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What's the point of having an "epic trilogy" or whatever and no more movies? They could still have their little epicness or whatever, but that's no reason for other movies not to be made.

Batman/Batman Returns were awesome, the next three were weak, The Dark Knight was amazing. There's no reason to limit the number of films that should be made, even if a couple are bad there could still be a good one down the road.

Uhm let's see....the original Star Wars trilogy was near perfect IMO, but the prequels all sucked ***. IMO. That's why no other movies should be made after the trilogy.

And there aren't too many good 007 films out of the 22 they've made so far.
 
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Uhm let's see....the original Star Wars trilogy was near perfect IMO, but the prequels all sucked ***. IMO. That's why no other movies should be made after the trilogy.

And there aren't too many good 007 films out of the 22 they've made so far.

I liked two of the prequels.

And aren't too many worthless James Bond movies. Most are at least pretty fun. In your world they should have ended the series with Goldfinger.
 
It hurts me to say this but your explanation for Gordon's fake death makes sense.

Cool. I thought it made sense.

I'll have to wait until I go to the movie again to see if it is clearer this time...

I saw it a second time and stuff I missed the first time definitly stood out.

But I still think that Dent may be alive. :D

*Head explodes*

?!

Tell me I'm misinterpreting.

Only in terms of the degree in which I'm using it. Batman Begins was definitly a good movie, and definitly the best Batman movie (I preferred it by far to the four previous Batman films by Burton and Schumacher) to that point. However, in comparison to The Dark Knight, Batman Begins CAN'T be labeled as anything other than a mediocre stepping-stone to The Dark Knight. Thats what I meant.

So yes, I loved Begins, but in comparison to TDK I love it like a red-headed step-child with mange. Begins is a tasty hors d'ouvre while TDK is the meaty main course.

Maybe thats a little over the top, but you know what I mean.

Here, here.

I'd just like a nice capper. I'm not looking for another masterpiece...but obviously it would be great if we had one.

My feelings exactly. However, I don't want it rushed or forced...I want something that Nolan and company are motivated to make as awesome and good as they possibly can. I think a few non-Batman films between now and then could help with that, as others have said.
 
There was more focus on Batman the character (whereas in The Dark Knight, Gotham City as a whole, was the focus), and there was certainly a lot more 'fun' (I love the scene where Bruce uses the elevator to go down to the Batcave and I love when Gordon drives the Tumbler). Plus, Batman just looked better in Begins. His mask was too helmety in TDK and in some scenes, it actually looked cartoonish.

Batman Begins was an excellent superhero movie, whereas The Dark Knight was a masterful ensemble-graphic-novel-thriller. It could have just as easily been called 'Gotham City'.

Exactly. Personally I thought that some of the plot could have been cut from TDK to make for a tighter, slimmer movie. I still think that the Mr. Reese character and his little plot could have been cut completely. The brothers Nolan could easily have cooked up a different plot for the Joker not imvolving Reese.

The only way I would want a different director is if Zack Snyder did Dark Knight Returns....a standalone movie, not canon with the Nolan films.

While a Zach Snyder TDKR is interesting to say the least, I don't know how that would affect other Batman movies in the future. I don't know how many people would get that it is an alternative take on the character and doesn't have anything to do with Nolan's movies, or possible other "mainstream" Batman flicks. It could lead to a lot of confussion. Even now you have people that think Nolan's movies are prequels to the Burton/Schumacher series. I might prefer an animated version of TDKR, including all of it's adult themes. Besides that I have my questions as to how TDKR would go over with your general audience. I think it might be a tough sale.
 
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I might prefer an animated version of TDKR, including all of it's adult themes. Besides that I have my questions as to how TDKR would go over with your general audience. I think it might be a tough sale.


I would love that but only if Mark Hamill voices the joker
 
Just a random thought I had...

The Riddler, played as much more of a gentleman type villain, polite and well mannered but you can see his obsession slightly showing through the cracks, A slightly older actor to portray him... I could see Anthony Stewart Head.
 
After watching Insomnia, the long-rumored (pre-Batman Forever) Robin Williams Riddler would be cool.

Yeah, I agree. However, had Williams been cast in THAT movie, he would inevitably have been the same wacky, speed-freak that Carrey was, even if the movie was directed by Tim Burton.

Ironically, I think Jim Carrey wouldn't be such a bad choice in a Nolan movie either, provided he gave the 'serious', psychologically disturbed performance we all want to see from Serious-Actor Carrey, rather than just Classic-Cartoon-Carrey.
 
I liked two of the prequels.

And aren't too many worthless James Bond movies. Most are at least pretty fun. In your world they should have ended the series with Goldfinger.

No, they would have started the series with the Daniel Craig Casino Royale and ended it with Craig's Octo***** and the Living Daylights, just like in the books.
 
Anyone else agree that it would be cool to bring in Bullock as the head of a Gotham Police division assigned with the capture of Batman? Then maybe have a sweet foot chase, kinda like the one in Mask of the Phantasm. That is definitely going into the movie pitch for the next Batman.
 
Anyone else agree that it would be cool to bring in Bullock as the head of a Gotham Police division assigned with the capture of Batman? Then maybe have a sweet foot chase, kinda like the one in Mask of the Phantasm. That is definitely going into the movie pitch for the next Batman.

Well, Flass from BB was kind of based on Bullock (Nolan's Flass is nothing like the comic's), in the same vein as Eckhardt from Burton's Batman. And Ramirez from TDK is kind of based on Renee Montoya.

So I don't think either of them should be used.
 
Well, Flass from BB was kind of based on Bullock (Nolan's Flass is nothing like the comic's), in the same vein as Eckhardt from Burton's Batman. And Ramirez from TDK is kind of based on Renee Montoya.

So I don't think either of them should be used.

Did Nolan actually say Flass was based upton Bullock, or is that what you think?
 
I've just watched the first 8 Bond movies, and the worst one so far has been Dr. No, the first one.

If they ended on Goldfinger we would've missed out on some really cool movies.

Whatever you think about how good certain movies are, that shouldn't bar others from being made. I loved The Dark Knight, but it would make me very sad if there weren't any more Batman movies.

They're even making more Lord of the Rings movies, and I can't wait to see them, and that's a perfect trilogy.
 
Nothing beats the original casino royale.

Thats entirely due to Sellers. Nothing beats Peter Sellers.

I've just watched the first 8 Bond movies, and the worst one so far has been Dr. No, the first one.

If they ended on Goldfinger we would've missed out on some really cool movies.

Whatever you think about how good certain movies are, that shouldn't bar others from being made. I loved The Dark Knight, but it would make me very sad if there weren't any more Batman movies.

They're even making more Lord of the Rings movies, and I can't wait to see them, and that's a perfect trilogy.

I agree that more Batman movies deserve to be and should be made in the future. I just think that right now Nolan "owns" the franchise, and Bale "is" Batman. Its their baby right now, as it should be. I think if Nolan hasn't committed to doing a third Batman in the next 5 years it should go to someone else. That isn't to put a time limit on Nolan's use of the character in movies, but just that if a third Nolan Batman hasn't been done in the next 5-6 years, I find it less likely he'll come back the more time that passes, though conversly I think a certain amount of time is required before he comes back to the franchise (making other, non-Batman related films).
 
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I agree that more Batman movies deserve to be and should be made in the future. I just think that right now Nolan "owns" the franchise, and Bale "is" Batman. Its their baby right now, as it should be. I think if Nolan hasn't committed to doing a third Batman in the next 5 years it should go to someone else. That isn't to put a time limit on Nolan's use of the character in movies, but just that if a third Nolan Batman hasn't been done in the next 5-6 years, I find it less likely he'll come back the more time that passes, though conversly I think a certain amount of time is required before he comes back to the franchise (making other, non-Batman related films).

If he won't commit to making a third Batman movie, WB shouldn't sit on their hands waiting for him. If he decides down the line he wants to do another, by all means welcome him back, but don't get handcuffed by his whims Favre-style.

If he won't commit to doing another movie by 2011 then get someone else. They can't just chill until 2013 hoping he changes his mind. At some point that lack of commitment has to be interpreted as a "no."
 
I agree that more Batman movies deserve to be and should be made in the future. I just think that right now Nolan "owns" the franchise, and Bale "is" Batman. Its their baby right now, as it should be. I think if Nolan hasn't committed to doing a third Batman in the next 5 years it should go to someone else. That isn't to put a time limit on Nolan's use of the character in movies, but just that if a third Nolan Batman hasn't been done in the next 5-6 years, I find it less likely he'll come back the more time that passes, though conversly I think a certain amount of time is required before he comes back to the franchise (making other, non-Batman related films).

Agreed. The trick isn't forcing Batman movies into production so we'll have a new one every three years on the dot. It's making sure that you have a director and screenwriter with a clear vision before green lighting it. For those of you who are talking about the failure of earlier comic book movies, I don't think that even applies. The reason those franchises failed is that they set a formula for the franchise. The first X-Men and Spider-Man movies basically became the blueprint for the two films that would follow, and by the third, the formula had just been run to death.

This new Batman is an entirely different animal. While TDK maintained the tone and background of the first story, it was a very different style of film. BB was an origin story framed in a character study. TDK was a tight, frantic crime thriller in the same vein as Heat or Ronin, and the third one should and would fit into its own stylistic niche, determined by where the character needs to go next. It has the potential to beat the franchise curse by making each entry in the franchise different from the last, a film in its own right while still being embedded in the history of the established universe. Hypothetically, the series could go on for years and years, and hopefully they'll keep from falling into the trap of numbering the movies. If Nolan isn't onboard, and they can find a script that really kicks ***, and a director that has powerful vision for the character, then they should go for it.

Joe Kalicki said:
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If he won't commit to making a third Batman movie, WB shouldn't sit on their hands waiting for him. If he decides down the line he wants to do another, by all means welcome him back, but don't get handcuffed by his whims Favre-style.

See, my understanding of the Favre situation is that he wants to do another Iron Man movie, but Marvel is pushing to a ridiculously short production cycle that would prevent the script from getting the polish that it deserves.
 
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If he won't commit to making a third Batman movie, WB shouldn't sit on their hands waiting for him. If he decides down the line he wants to do another, by all means welcome him back, but don't get handcuffed by his whims Favre-style.

If he won't commit to doing another movie by 2011 then get someone else. They can't just chill until 2013 hoping he changes his mind. At some point that lack of commitment has to be interpreted as a "no."

I was using the 5-6 year thing as a maximum. Though following the course set between Begins and TDK seems to make sense: 3 years between allows fans craving for another movie to build, and allows Nolan time to pursue other interesting directing jobs on non-Batman films so he doesn't burn out.

Agreed. The trick isn't forcing Batman movies into production so we'll have a new one every three years on the dot. It's making sure that you have a director and screenwriter with a clear vision before green lighting it. For those of you who are talking about the failure of earlier comic book movies, I don't think that even applies. The reason those franchises failed is that they set a formula for the franchise. The first X-Men and Spider-Man movies basically became the blueprint for the two films that would follow, and by the third, the formula had just been run to death.

This new Batman is an entirely different animal. While TDK maintained the tone and background of the first story, it was a very different style of film. BB was an origin story framed in a character study. TDK was a tight, frantic crime thriller in the same vein as Heat or Ronin, and the third one should and would fit into its own stylistic niche, determined by where the character needs to go next. It has the potential to beat the franchise curse by making each entry in the franchise different from the last, a film in its own right while still being embedded in the history of the established universe. Hypothetically, the series could go on for years and years, and hopefully they'll keep from falling into the trap of numbering the movies. If Nolan isn't onboard, and they can find a script that really kicks ***, and a director that has powerful vision for the character, then they should go for it.

You and I should join forces and take over Hollywood...then, the world!

See, my understanding of the Favre situation is that he wants to do another Iron Man movie, but Marvel is pushing to a ridiculously short production cycle that would prevent the script from getting the polish that it deserves.

Umm, I'm pretty sure he's talking about Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers, not Jon Favreau (of Swingers and Iron Man directing fame).

I could be wrong, but he definitly wrote Favre.
 
DIrishB said:
You and I should join forces and take over Hollywood...then, the world!

Word? I'm down with that.

DIrishB said:
Umm, I'm pretty sure he's talking about Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers, not Jon Favreau (of Swingers and Iron Man directing fame).

I could be wrong, but he definitly wrote Favre.

You're right. I'm wrong. I feel retarded.
 
Some ruminations on Two-Face in the third movie:

There is something to be thought of seeing Two-Face as an 'agent of chaos'. Joker's modus operandi was devolving the city's populace into panicking, terror-stricken monsters. To make the civilized people eat each other. To drive them mad.

But Two-Face wouldn't do that. Two-Face is different. To see his idea of an agent of chaos could be interesting.

For example, Two-Face's version of the two ships and their detonators dilemma would be this: there's only one ship. The ship with the convicts. The bomb goes off at midnight or if anyone jumps ship. The detonator has two buttons. One button disarms the bomb. The other makes it go off immediately.

The point is - Joker's chaos involved people killing other people for their own survival. Who lives and who dies. But Two-Face would be all about the fifty/fifty chance. You have as equal a chance of surviving as you do dying. Fifty/fifty. Note, it's not duality or a fixation on the number '2'. TDK's Two-Face doesn't care. TDK's Two-Face only cares about the fairness of an even chance. So his anarchic exploits would revolve around that premise.

The other thing is that Two-Face wouldn't do the public spectacle of threating dozens of innocent lives. He'd go after cops and criminals. And he'd do it face-to-face and yet, off the public radar. He'd be a specter tearing through both sides of law and order. The ultimate gambit being that essentially, he's flipping a coin: good heads, law wins. Bad heads, crime wins.

I suppose the idea is that in the third film, Gotham is at a crossroads. It's not as good as it could be (say, at the beginning of TDK) and yet it's not as bad as it was (at the beginning of BEGINS). And Two-Face's fifty/fifty gambit is to see if Gotham becomes the safe place he wanted it to be before his tragedy, or if it will fall back into corruption.

It'd be interesting, but there's a number of problems: first of all, Two-Face is dead. Otherwise, he's locked up somewhere but NO ONE is allowed to know he's there. The number of people who know Batman is innocent is Batman, Alfred, Lucius Fox, Jim Gordon, and Gordon's family. That's it. Which means that if Dent is alive, where's he being held? His face was not made public... I don't know. I have to watch the movie again, but I think him being alive doesn't add up with the coda of the film.

The second major problem is that it won't be as good as TDK. Two-Face's plan isn't as big as Joker's, and it's not as deep. It's interesting, but just not enough. Two-Face would need to be supplemented by something more.

But seeing his version of chaos would be interesting just... not particularly desirable.
 
very nice bass.

and the good thing about that is, teh cops and everyone will assume batman is doing this, and batman will keep having to take the blame.
 
very nice bass.

and the good thing about that is, teh cops and everyone will assume batman is doing this, and batman will keep having to take the blame.

yeah, i like that too. It's a very interesting idea for a way that they could make the character relevant in another movie.
 
There's no way Ourchair would let that slide. It's on his radar like a 10 year old on Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader.

That ok. I'll just distract Ourchair by jiggling my freshly shaved nuts around in front of him. Then after a few seconds when he realizes they don't belong to a 6-year-old and loses interest in them, I'll break out my shirtless pics of Leonardo DiCaprio. That'll keep him busy for hours.

And hours will be more than enough time for myself and Zombi to enact our plan of Hollywood domination (which strangely enough is sort of like Hollywood Squares...go figure).

but I think him [Two Face] being alive doesn't add up with the coda of the film.

This is what I've been saying for the last week and a half.
 
That ok. I'll just distract Ourchair by jiggling my freshly shaved nuts around in front of him. Then after a few seconds when he realizes they don't belong to a 6-year-old and loses interest in them, I'll break out my shirtless pics of Leonardo DiCaprio. That'll keep him busy for hours.

And hours will be more than enough time for myself and Zombi to enact our plan of Hollywood domination (which strangely enough is sort of like Hollywood Squares...go figure).

Except our plan has more Whoopi Goldberg.
 

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