Ultimatum series discussion [spoilers]

[Random]

why are you guys forgetting the ultimates 4 yet to come?

I think this site should just ignore ultimates 4 altogether

 

[Zombipanda]

I was hoping that Marvel would see all the "I Hate Loeb" mail and "I Hate Loeb" threads at all the comic forums and tell him that he can never, ever do anything invalving The Ultimate, Zombie, Ape, Supreme and maybe Marvel Universe again. Marvel Adventures Universe, he can do.... Ok, anything but Marvel Adventures: Spider-Man I read that.

Or they could look at the fact that his books top the charts and realize they can use that exorbitant income to support brilliant books that don't have the sales to support themselves on their own.

 

[Grocer Man]

Or they could look at the fact that his books top the charts and realize they can use that exorbitant income to support brilliant books that don't have the sales to support themselves on their own.

*look of dawning realization*

Those magnificient bastards.

 

[the watcher]

Well it's finally over...


Wolverine: Dead
Magneto: Dead
Cyclops: Dead
Quicksilver: Alive
Doctor Doom: Dead
Spider-Man: Alive

 

[Zombipanda]

Well it's finally over...


Wolverine: Dead
Magneto: Dead
Cyclops: Dead
Quicksilver: Alive
Doctor Doom: Dead
Spider-Man: Alive

So that's it, I guess.

Is the only fallout from the story who lives and who dies?




Man. Now that it's over, I need to post how it should have gone down, before it's inconsequential.

 

[The Overlord]

Well it's finally over...


Wolverine: Dead
Magneto: Dead
Cyclops: Dead
Quicksilver: Alive
Doctor Doom: Dead
Spider-Man: Alive

Wow, that really sucks, that's like a complete waste of several useful characters. Did they at least get meaningful deaths? I assume not.

 

[Ironlurker]

ULTIMATUM #5 (spoilers)
by drgnrbrn316 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:10 pm

And so, it ends...


(SPOILERS and all that stuff)

Magneto's Citadel.
Above the Arctic Circle.
Now.

Wolverine says all the other times he's fought Magneto, he guesses he held back because he wasn't willing to die. Today, he is. Magneto's murdered millions of people. Humans. Mutants. Heroes. Villains. It made no difference to him. Jean is in Logan's head and tells Cyclops he's really going to kill him. Wolverine says that Magneto thinks he's god, but if he is god, then god is dead. Magneto hurls Wolverine away. He says that he won't be judged by someone less than man, nothing more than animal. He asks if they honestly think they can stop him when they can't even stop themselves. He opens Cyclops' visor and causes Iron Man to fire his repulsor, pretty much blowing up Wolverine. Hawkeye and Storm take down Cyclops and Iron Man. Magneto says despite his instinct to survive, it's too late. They killed Wolverine.

Wolverine stabs Magneto in the chest and says, "Not yet." Magneto finishes blowing up Wolverine, apparently tearing the Adamantium off of his bones. Storm, Hawkeye, Jean, Cyclops, and Iron Man mourn Wolverine, letting Magneto escape. Again.

Magneto's Citadel.
Down below.

Hulk and Colossus are trashing the engines. Mystique shows up with a big flame thrower and fires on the two heroes. Hulk says he'll eat her. Colossus attacks. Sabretooth grabs Mystique and they escape on a hang glider. They left a bomb though. Boom.

Magneto, back at his thrown, pulls Wolverine's hand from his chest, saying he'll kill every last bit of him, down to the blood cells. Nick Fury tells Erik he screwed up. It's like he told Doom: every one of them has a weakness, something he keeps as his ace in the hole, in case they get out of hand. And Erik got way out of hand. Magneto says he won't answer to him. Fury says not to him, but to Jean Grey. Jean connects Fury and Erik's mind and shows Magneto that mutants are man made, rather than a miracle of birth or a gift from God. Fury tells Magneto that he's just a man, no different from the millions he's killed.

Magneto magically has a change of heart. He uses his power to reverse the damage he's done to Earth's magnetic poles. He says that Charles will forgive him. Cyclops says Charles is dead, killed by Magneto. There's no one left to forgive him. Cyclops blasts Magneto's head off.

Fury assembles Mr Fantastic, Hawkeye, Hulk, Colossus, Jean, Cyclops, Iron man, and Captain America and says its time to go. (No clue where Power Princess or Doom are, since they were standing with everyone just a moment ago.) They leave on their jet as the Citadel explodes and sinks into the water. Wolverine's hand goes down with it.

Eight Days Later
United States Senate Building.
Washington, DC.

Cyclops is addressing a rather large crowd of mutant haters. He says that the world faced terrible tragedy, caused by a mutant. His name was Magneto, and now he is dead. But the damage he did cannot be forgotten. Rogue and Jean are in the crowd, Storm and Colossus are with Scott at the podium. He says that maybe one day what can be forgotten is the lie that all mutants are evil. Kitty, Iceman, and Johnny Storm are in the crowd. Cyclops says they are here today because history is about to be changed. Freedom is about to be changed. A vote is being taken in the senate which will make it so mutants must surrender to the US government or be hunted down and shot on sight.

Boom. Scott's head explodes from a bullet. The crowd is out of control. Carol Danvers arrests Storm and Colossus. Iceman runs to help, leaving Kitty behind. She says he can't leave her like everyone else. A streak zips through the crowd.

Castle Van Damme.
Latveria. Eastern Europe.
That Night.

Doom says he has so little to show for all of it. Only Namor, the last prisoner. The door opens. A figure enters. He says Reed told him how Doom pushed Magneto's buttons so he'd go to war, all so Doom could have the leftovers. Doom blasts the intruder, revealing Thing underneath the cloak. He says Reed didn't have the stomach for this, but Doom has to pay for what he did. He grabs Doom's head and crushes it, much to Namor's shock.

The Fabled Land of Wundagore.
Bavarian Alps.
Tomorrow.

It's done. Cyclops has been assassinated. A bullet was pushed through his brain. The same bullet used to kill the Scarlet Witch. Pietro says it was quick, with no problems. A shadowed woman says good. When the time is right, they'll start over. Pietro says exactly like she planned. Magneto had grown too soft. Complacent. Only when he believed that Pietro had died, that his kids were gone, would he act. His vengeance cleared the path for a better world. His father is gone, but his dream lives on... (Sabretooth and Mystique look on in the background.)



In Memoriam
Honoring those who died in Ultimatum
Angel, Beast, Blob, Cannonball, Captain Britain and the European Initiative, Cipher, Cyclops, Daredevil, Dazzler, Detonator, Forge, Dr. Emma Frost, Hardrive, Juggernaut, Longshot, Lorelei, Madrox, Magneto, Nightcrawler, Polaris, Psylocke, Hank Pym (Yellowjacket), Janet Pym (Wasp), Dr. Franklin Storm, Dr. Stephen Strange, Sunspot, Syndicate, Thor, Toad, Victor Van Damme (Doom), Wolverine, Prof. Charles Xavier

Missing in action
Firestar, Havok, Spider-Man

The millions of people who lost their lives in New York City, Latveria, London, Wakanda, the Savage Land, and throughout the world.
drgnrbrn316
letterer

Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:45 pm

 

[ProjectX2]

Magneto magically has a change of heart.

:lol:

EPIC FAILZ.

 

[vmenge]

:lol:

EPIC FAILZ.

epic is not enough.

 

[Random]

epic is not enough.

Colossal? no. Monumental? no. Cosmic? no. Mind ****ing? no.


There's just no way to describe retardedness of this magnitude. I guess it's time to invent a new word

 

[Taskmaster]

Colossal? no. Monumental? no. Cosmic? no. Mind ****ing? no.


There's just no way to describe retardedness of this magnitude. I guess it's time to invent a new word

It is a failure on a HYPERFRACKSPLOSIVE!!!! level.

Beat that.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

So Rick Jones had nothing to do with. Ben and Sue defeated Dormanu with no explantion. Wolverine who is meant to survive anything can survive a nuke but not repulsor rays and optic blasts at the same time. Wanda's body is still hidden. Toad died at some point but no indication if Wraith, Firestar, and Psylocke survived. Man with Strange's body unrevealed. Logan's letter unrevealed.

Granted, maybe, just maybe some of these will be explained in the final requiem issues but 9 months for a 5 part mini and this is the end result?

Loeb...:arrgh:

 

[Sacred&Profane]

Wolverine who is meant to survive anything can survive a nuke but not repulsor rays and optic blasts at the same time.

I'm sure he'll grow back from his hand, but without the adamantium or claws anywhere aside from that hand.

 

[The Overlord]

Here's a good review of this issue: http://comics.ign.com/articles/100/1009082p1.html

 

[Zombipanda]

I'm sure he'll grow back from his hand, but without the adamantium or claws anywhere aside from that hand.

So, if you draw and quarter Wolverine, will a different one grow back from each piece?

 

[Mattimeo84]

So, if you draw and quarter Wolverine, will a different one grow back from each piece?

That is a very good question. How much Wolverine needs to be there to be regenerated, could there be an army of Wolverines if someone could hold him down?

 

[Random]

That is a very good question. How much Wolverine needs to be there to be regenerated, could there be an army of Wolverines if someone could hold him down?

I wonder if one grew from that pinky that was chopped off in USM

 

[Captain Canuck]

:lol:

EPIC FAILZ.

epic is not enough.

Colossal? no. Monumental? no. Cosmic? no. Mind ****ing? no.


There's just no way to describe retardedness of this magnitude. I guess it's time to invent a new word

It is a failure on a HYPERFRACKSPLOSIVE!!!! level.

Beat that.

How about Loebtastic Fail

This is the new standard for fail. and all other fails shall henceforth be compared to this.

Although...Ultimate Fail seems rather fitting too. So either or.

So Rick Jones had nothing to do with.

haha, yeah but tell me you didn't see that coming

Logan's letter unrevealed.

do you mean the letter he wrote to Kitty and gave to her in USM (during the Ultimate Friends arc?)

b/c that was revealed in UXM (in the Banshee arc)

 

[E]

So Rick Jones had nothing to do with. Ben and Sue defeated Dormanu with no explantion. Wolverine who is meant to survive anything can survive a nuke but not repulsor rays and optic blasts at the same time. Wanda's body is still hidden. Toad died at some point but no indication if Wraith, Firestar, and Psylocke survived. Man with Strange's body unrevealed. Logan's letter unrevealed.

Granted, maybe, just maybe some of these will be explained in the final requiem issues but 9 months for a 5 part mini and this is the end result?

Loeb...:arrgh:

Guys, we are seeing history unfold in front of our eyes here. This is, bar none, the worst comic ever made and, even more importantly, the worst comic that can be made. Nobody can make a comic worse than this. It is impossible. Any attempt at making a comic worse than this would cross into "so bad it's good/entertaining" territory (a la 'Snakes on a Plane'). This comic has done the unthinkable by not only toeing that line, but even CREATING the line.

So, if you draw and quarter Wolverine, will a different one grow back from each piece?

That is a totally, 100% legitimate question, as is the pinky one. We all know he will grow back from the severed hand. When he does, it is totally legitimate to ask why another Wolverine didn't grow from the pinky.

 

[Mattimeo84]

I kinda look at Wolverine like a Zombie. Only useful if the brain is intact.

 

[E]

I kinda look at Wolverine like a Zombie. Only useful if the brain is intact.

Yes, but I think 616 Wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood at one point.

Different character, I know, but there's no reason not to think they wouldn't follow that.

For what it's worth, I think that's how it should be. No brain, no Wolverine.

 

[Iceshadow]

So I just read a synopsis of this on wikipedia, and I never would have imagined that Loeb could not only ruin the Ultimate universe for me forever, but also retroactively ruin the pre-Loeb Ultimate universe for me forever.

 

[Mattimeo84]

He did, in Uncanny X-Men Annual 11 (I'm not a nerd, I googled it (I googled it? I am a nerd))

But the drop of blood only regenerated him because

a single drop of Wolvie's blood lands on the immensely powerful alien god-
gem which super-cosmically charges the superpowers of that blood to
regrow an entire Wolverine, adamantium bones and all. In short, don't
try this at home, kids, at least not without an immensely powerful alien
god-gem of your own.

The simplest evidence against Wolverine having this amount of
regenerative ability, however, is that in the numerous issues with no
alien god-gems in sight that Wolverine gets pounded in, none of the
blood he's leaked so copiously over everything has ever grown into
another Wolverine.

Wolverine has zombie powers, not starfish powers.

 

[the watcher]

Yes, but I think 616 Wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood at one point.
Different character, I know, but there's no reason not to think they wouldn't follow that.

For what it's worth, I think that's how it should be. No brain, no Wolverine.

He had help from a magic crystal, I forget which one.

 

[E]

Alien god gem? What the ****? That sounds worse. It regrew the adamantium?!

 

[The Overlord]

Yes, but I think 616 Wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood at one point.

Different character, I know, but there's no reason not to think they wouldn't follow that.

For what it's worth, I think that's how it should be. No brain, no Wolverine.

I never liked that, I was thought it was pretty back in the past, where the healing factor was impresive, but didn't make him completely immortal. Wolive should die if someone vaporizes his body, manages to cut off his head, remove hism heart or lungs, he should be dead.

There's no dramatic tension with Wolvie if there is no way he can die in a fight, that just makes him boring.

 

[Grocer Man]

I never liked that, I was thought it was pretty back in the past, where the healing factor was impresive, but didn't make him completely immortal. Wolive should die if someone vaporizes his body, manages to cut off his head, remove hism heart or lungs, he should be dead.

There's no dramatic tension with Wolvie if there is no way he can die in a fight, that just makes him boring.

To be honest, the only plausible way to kill him is by drowning him, since that isn't a wound. But no one other then Millar tried it. It was in Ultimate X-Men. Sabertooth even wondered why no one else had thought of it.

Still, I think Magneto is one of the few people who could plausibly kill Wolverine, due to his adamantium skeleton. Just use his magnetic powers to rip him apart from the inside, then drown him while he's winded.

Incidentally, if I was organizing a Brotherhood of Mutants or some anti-X-Men team, the first person I'd recruit is Hydro-Man or someone with similar powers.

 

[Mattimeo84]

hate to burst your bubble, but drowning causes wounds...the capillaries in your lungs explode and the deterioration of brain cells causes brain damage

 

[Grocer Man]

hate to burst your bubble, but drowning causes wounds...the capillaries in your lungs explode and the deterioration of brain cells causes brain damage

Alright, then just deprive him of oxygen. And drowning him is still an acceptable form of comic book science.

Or better yet, make him not so stupid powerful in regeration.

 

[Mattimeo84]

depriving him of oxygen would yield the same results (lifeguard class is coming back to me)

but i completely agree, don't make him so stupid powerful in regeneration