The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

[Grocer Man]

This film gets better with each viewing if you have a soul.

It's excellent, that's true enough. But anything gets boring if you watch it long enough.

 

[moonmaster]

It hasn't gotten worse for me, but seeing it the first time is so amazing, it feels like it will never be that good again.

I'm chasing the Dark Knight dragon.

 

[Bass]

It's excellent, that's true enough. But anything gets boring if you watch it long enough.

Only if you have no soul.

 

[Zombipanda]

This film gets better with each viewing if you have a soul.

:roll:


Don't get me wrong. The action sequences are excellent, and they get better with each viewing. Ledger's performance continues to entertain.

But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales.

Still, that bank heist was ****ing awesome, yeah?

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales?

:roll:

While it is a great movie to be sure, it does lose a bit of its charm the more you watch it. It is too long, and there are things in it that just aren't needed. The Mr. Reese subplot should have been cut entirely. I would argue that they should have saved Two-Face for a sequel. Sure, have him scarred and killing those responsible for Rachel's death, but leave the majority of that story (as well as what happens to him) for a different movie. It felt tagged on. I will also go out on a line and say that Maggie Gyllenhaal was a worse Rachel than Katie Holmes was. Just saying.

This may sound like I hate the movie, which I don't. It's just that so many people seem to think that TDK is the peak of what a Batman movie (hell even of what all superhero movies) can be. It's probably the best superhero film to date, but it's far from perfect.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Maggie Gylenhal wasn't bad. Katie Holmes can't act for crap.

 

[Gothamite]

I just wish there had been a real mention of the Joker. Even a derogatory one. But I loved it. The Bruce Wayne, Gordon, and Dent segments in particular, but the Maroni one was also great.

I want more.

The Maroni one was really interesting, because it shows how Eric Roberts was going to play the character (completely and utterly over the top, like cartoon gangster) until Nolan reeled him in.

The Gotham Tonight stuff is great and Anthony Michael Hall is perfect, but I don't neccessarily consider them to be canon, because they're quite silly.

I will also go out on a line and say that Maggie Gyllenhaal was a worse Rachel than Katie Holmes was. Just saying.

Katie Holmes was far more bearable. She only has one, maybe two moments in Batman Begins where she even slightly annoys me ("Yeah! You better run!"). Maggie Gyllenhaal was a constant source of pain for me in The Dark Knight. "Haaarrrvveeyy...." "Allfreeeedd..." she sounded like she was ill half the time.

Also, Katie Holmes is better looking. Just sayin.

When I met Eckhart last year, one of the things I really wanted to ask him was if he knew anything about why she wasn't in TDK. I didn't get a chance to, unfortunately.

This may sound like I hate the movie, which I don't. It's just that so many people seem to think that TDK is the peak of what a Batman movie (hell even of what all superhero movies) can be. It's probably the best superhero film to date, but it's far from perfect.

It's certainly not the peak of what a Batman movie can be. Batman Begins is a far better Batman movie than The Dark Knight, in terms of characterising Batman and Bruce Wayne (or "who he is and how he came to be" as Bob Kane put it), and visualising him as a creature, rather than a man in a costume. The Dark Knight is just the best film (so far) that happens to have Batman in its cast of characters.

I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.

 

[Bass]

:roll:


Don't get me wrong. The action sequences are excellent, and they get better with each viewing. Ledger's performance continues to entertain.

But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales.

Still, that bank heist was ****ing awesome, yeah?

I thought those with no soul couldn't type.

Anyhow, the whole "Joker's plan is preposterous" argument. I've heard this before, but I think you're not 'getting' Joker.

Joker has no plan. He as much as says so to Dent. He has a goal. He wants to destroy Gotham's soul. But how he gets that to happen? Not a damn clue. He's not sure if he'll even be there for it. That's why he tries to have Batman and Dent kill him.

Joker is a master of improvisation and turning a situation into win/win for him.

Joker doesn't have a plan, he has several and they're each simple and borne out of the previous plan - make Batman give himself up. In the meantime, kill Dent, Loeb, and the Mayor, etc. "Batman" gives himself up. Joker knows he's possibly set up for a trap and creates the "corrupt Dent" plan to crush Gotham's spirit. The ferries plan is something he comes up with after he blows up the hospital... he's wasnt' expecting to come out alive. He was expecting Dent to kill him. He expected Batman to kill him on the street with the Batpod.

Joker's modus operandi is to create an unpredictable plan, immediately implement it, and see what happens. Joker's ability to improvise makes it look like everything's planned, but he honestly doesn't know what will happen next.

Look at it this way: When Joker turns up on TV and says he's a man of his word, he has no idea Dent will become Two-Face or how this will end.

When I met Eckhart last year, one of the things I really wanted to ask him was if he knew anything about why she wasn't in TDK. I didn't get a chance to, unfortunately.

Too weird is why! They were lovers in THANK YOU FOR SMOKING! How odd it would've been!

I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.

Because you have no soul.

 

[SSJmole]

It's certainly not the peak of what a Batman movie can be. Batman Begins is a far better Batman movie than The Dark Knight, in terms of characterising Batman and Bruce Wayne (or "who he is and how he came to be" as Bob Kane put it), and visualising him as a creature, rather than a man in a costume. The Dark Knight is just the best film (so far) that happens to have Batman in its cast of characters.

I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.

I disagree. I think while begins did do that the dark knight too that expanded upon that. Also added the why he can be the one to take hard choices, more of the effect batman has on his life and other stuff.

 

[E]

Maggie Gylenhal wasn't bad. Katie Holmes can't act for crap.

Katie Holmes is WAY better looking. Not to be crass, but Maggie Gyllenhaal is downright fugly.

And Gyllenhaal is probably a better actress, but during the whole movie she came off too much as an actress. Like she was trying too hard. Katie Holmes may not have been as emotive but at least she didn't seem like an actress, if that makes any sense.

 

[Bass]

Katie Holmes is WAY better looking. Not to be crass, but Maggie Gyllenhaal is downright fugly.

And Gyllenhaal is probably a better actress, but during the whole movie she came off too much as an actress. Like she was trying too hard. Katie Holmes may not have been as emotive but at least she didn't seem like an actress, if that makes any sense.

I thought you had a soul.

Or at least, were from this universe.

Freak.

 

[E]

I thought you had a soul.

Or at least, were from this universe.

Freak.

OMG SORRY IM NOT GAY AND WOULD RATHER LOOK AT ATTRACTIVE FEMALES INSTEAD OF UGLY ONES!!!!!111oneone

 

[Planet-man]

It hasn't gotten worse for me with repeat viewing, it's just stayed at about the same level of "very good, very exciting, not the best movie ever made, not as heart-grabbing as Batman Begins" it's always been for me. If I watch it looking to love it, it's like a 9.5 out of 10. If I watch it looking to prove the hype wrong, it's like an 8.5.

Katie Holmes was far more bearable. She only has one, maybe two moments in Batman Begins where she even slightly annoys me ("Yeah! You better run!"). Maggie Gyllenhaal was a constant source of pain for me in The Dark Knight. "Haaarrrvveeyy...." "Allfreeeedd..." she sounded like she was ill half the time.

Also, Katie Holmes is better looking. Just sayin.

Agreed.

It's certainly not the peak of what a Batman movie can be. Batman Begins is a far better Batman movie than The Dark Knight, in terms of characterising Batman and Bruce Wayne (or "who he is and how he came to be" as Bob Kane put it), and visualising him as a creature, rather than a man in a costume. The Dark Knight is just the best film (so far) that happens to have Batman in its cast of characters.

Agreed through the roof.

Katie Holmes is WAY better looking. Not to be crass, but Maggie Gyllenhaal is downright fugly.

And Gyllenhaal is probably a better actress, but during the whole movie she came off too much as an actress. Like she was trying too hard. Katie Holmes may not have been as emotive but at least she didn't seem like an actress, if that makes any sense.

Yep, all of it. Agreed.

I thinkk if they had to recast Katie Holmes for some reason, they should've chosen Michelle Monaghan anyway.

 

[Gothamite]

I thinkk if they had to recast Katie Holmes for some reason, they should've chosen Michelle Monaghan anyway.

Or Rachel MacAdams, Scarlett Johannsen, Jake Gyllenhaal...there are tons of actresses who would have done a better job.

 

[Bass]

OMG SORRY IM NOT GAY AND WOULD RATHER LOOK AT ATTRACTIVE FEMALES INSTEAD OF UGLY ONES!!!!!111oneone

Post of the day.

It hasn't gotten worse for me with repeat viewing, it's just stayed at about the same level of "very good, very exciting, not the best movie ever made, not as heart-grabbing as Batman Begins" it's always been for me. If I watch it looking to love it, it's like a 9.5 out of 10. If I watch it looking to prove the hype wrong, it's like an 8.5.

Agreed.

Agreed through the roof.

Yep, all of it. Agreed.

I thinkk if they had to recast Katie Holmes for some reason, they should've chosen Michelle Monaghan anyway.

Or Rachel MacAdams, Scarlett Johannsen, Jake Gyllenhaal...there are tons of actresses who would have done a better job.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Katie Holmes is WAY better looking. Not to be crass, but Maggie Gyllenhaal is downright fugly.

I don't disagree.

And Gyllenhaal is probably a better actress, but during the whole movie she came off too much as an actress. Like she was trying too hard. Katie Holmes may not have been as emotive but at least she didn't seem like an actress, if that makes any sense.

I should clarify that i did have problems with both characters but I've never liked katie holmes as an actress. Kmart model? sure, but that's a topic for another discussion. I get the jist of what you're saying, but I still prefered Maggie Gyllenhaal.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Post of the day.

good luck.

 

[ProjectX2]

Batman's beaten Liam Neeson before and he'll do it again!

 

[Bass]

good luck.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

oh god don't kill me.

 

[ProjectX2]

Anti-Liam Neeson Death Squad, go!

You will die at our hands once again, Liam Neeson! Attack!

 

[Bass]

oh god don't kill me.

That won't save you.

Anti-Liam Neeson Death Squad, go!

You will die at our hands once again, Liam Neeson! Attack!

Three nemeses. Two hands with which to throat punch with.

...

Touche.

 

[Zombipanda]

That won't save you.



Three nemeses. Two hands with which to throat punch with.

...

Touche.

Neeson will just have to resort for a cold cocking for the last one.

If you get my meaning. *winkwinknudgenudge*

 

[thee great one]

Neeson will just have to resort for a cold cocking for the last one.

If you get my meaning. *winkwinknudgenudge*

But which one would he choose for that?

 

[ProjectX2]

How to beat Liam Neeson in a few easy steps:

1. Gather a bunch of Jews.
2. Throw aforementioned Jews at Liam Neeson.
3. Liam Neeson will now try to save these Jews instead of throat punching you.
4. Watch Liam Neeson cry about how he could have saved more Jews. Laugh at him and throat punch him.

 

[Bass]

I'm not sure that's kosher, Proj.

Also, I'm loving how Liam Neeson is a more bad *** version of Chuck Norris.

 

[Random]

I want this

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Seriously?

 

[E]

I want this

I dunno - it's cool but the crotch region isn't big enough for my needs.

 

[Bass]

That is something I would buy if I rode motorcycles.

... Ah, who am I kidding. I'd buy it anyway.