Mario Timeline

stphylcccs said:
Diddy Kong Racing
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Wouldn'tbit be more logical to place this before Banjo-Kazooie, cause iirc it was set before Banjo even met Kazooie? Or is that due to Dixie Kong's age in Diddy Kong Racing DS? If so, couldn't both games be very similar events happening twice on the timeline, one with Banjo & Conker, and one... after Conker was unfit for driving?

Speaking of Banjo-Kazooie, will ylu include Nuts'n'Bolts?
 
Rojinn said:
So, you go with the version where Mario was born in the 40s?
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Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic
 
stphylcccs said:
Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic
Click to expand...
Reading back, I kinda just go on a massive tangent for no reason - it made sense in my head, though is probably better suited as its own message
 
Rojinn said:
Wouldn'tbit be more logical to place this before Banjo-Kazooie, cause iirc it was set before Banjo even met Kazooie? Or is that due to Dixie Kong's age in Diddy Kong Racing DS? If so, couldn't both games be very similar events happening twice on the timeline, one with Banjo & Conker, and one... after Conker was unfit for driving?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I based a lot of this off a 5 hour timeline video, and they went into detail about any placement that may be disagreed upon. I’ll have to check, though there were much smaller things that didn’t get oversights in that video
 
They have DKRacing where it is since Tiny Kong has just matured by this time. I also don’t see any reason to assume Banjo and Kazooie haven’t met yet, one of them just isn’t absent in the game
 
stphylcccs said:
Yeah, seems pretty sound to me. Again, there’s the theory that Power Stars extend youth-span which is IMO the most sound theory as to how they’ve been around so long based purely off evidence in Galaxy, so Mario and co being ~80 doesn’t seem that far-fetched to me. What has been horrendous though, is dating Bananza.

At first I thought it was obviously a prequel since… well… Baby Pauline, and that we were playing as Cranky Kong/DK I. However Cranky Kong is in Bananza. And Diddy Kong. And Dixie Kong. Clearly DK III. Then I presumed it was a sequel to Odyssey and we were dealing with Pauline Jr (again, not that far-fetched - especially since it’s established teen-Pauline has a grandmother who was also called Pauline), but after actually looking into the story of the game this didn’t really sit well with me either. The biggest reason for this is the lack of red scaffolding around New Donk City, which has, since (presumably) Donkey Kong Arcade, been a staple of New Donk, meaning it would have to be a prequel… with Cranky Kong. So I’m pretty sure that the Donkey Kong aspects of New Donk were only really added once DK was well established as a hero, not a villain. This could very well be Bananza, since this would be DK’s first global act of heroism. This also means teen-Pauline is Mayor Pauline, thus Mayor Pauline is not Lady from DK Arcade. This is supported by the fact that graffiti in Odyssey depict Lady as having blonde hair, not brown hair. This also doesn’t create continuity issues with Odyssey, since Pauline is thankfully vague enough in describing the Kong-related event of her past as simply being kidnapped by a gorilla when they were younger, which would be just before Bananza (also supported by “younger” which probably wouldn’t be used if Pauline used Power Stars to stay young - establishing Power Stars are mainly only used in the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasa, as well as given out by people affiliated with the Mushroom Kingdom). This would imply that Lady is Pauline’s grandmother, and there is an unseen generation between the two. Logistically, this Places Bananza in the mid-‘90s to give Pauline enough time to age from 13 to adulthood by Mario vs Donkey Kong in 2004, while still allowing for Diddy Kong to begin dating Dixie Kong after the events of DK Country, and requires the unseen Pauline generation to most likely be born before DK Arcade (irrelevant to the overall timeline, just wanted to mention it). Due to Pauline’s involvement in Mario vs Donkey Kong, which takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom, they most likely start receiving Power Stars around this time, which is how they appear the same age in Odyssey, as in MvDK, which occurs ~10 years prior - by being as generous as possible this would make Pauline 23 in MvDK and 35 in Odyssey, thus requiring Power Stars to be used. Based on the fact Pauline seems to be used to adult-life by MvDK (and the fact that DK becomes infatuated with her - which is strange now that he knew her when she was 13 and he was fully matured, but this is what happens when you try and make prequels that misalign with very specific spin-off franchises) I’m assuming Bananza is at least a month after Country, to give Diddy and Dixie enough time to start dating.

The one game that tried to fix the DK timeline ended up nearly breaking it, ironic
Click to expand...
Hm, two things. First, I am more convinced that Bananza is set some years after Oddyssey. Weak evidence, yeah, but the New Donk License Plates have the year 2025 on them (in Oddyssey it was 1981, though I highly doubt that's the imtended year, just has to be some time later). I take this for Bananza to take place in 2025+, and Pauline in that game is either the daughter or granddaughter of Mayor Pauline. The latter's kidnapping by a Kong was seen in Donkey Kong for the GB. Yes, I think that Lady ≠ Mayor Pauline ≠ Young Pauline. More on that when I finally translate from german / write out my personal Mario headcanon.

Secondly, I'm not convinced that Mario ages slower. I think all his adventures took place from 1980/1981 (to reconcile the Mario is 24/25 statement from 2005) to present day. Works kinda well... mostly. SimCity's 1961 Bowser in Tokyo gave me a headache. Yeah, even though I did not like the two Marios theory at first, there is some stuff that actually works better that way, so it's at the moment my headcanon. Sorry to not go into more detail, I'll give a more detailed answer another time ^^
 
stphylcccs said:
They have DKRacing where it is since Tiny Kong has just matured by this time. I also don’t see any reason to assume Banjo and Kazooie haven’t met yet, one of them just isn’t absent in the game
Click to expand...
It's actually from Banjo's official description:
Even before the start of his future partnership with Kazooie, Banjo isn't one to turn down the chance of an adventure. So when Squawks brings the message from his pal Diddy Kong, the Honey Bear stuffs a few things into his trusty backpack and takes to his heels.
Click to expand...
 
Rojinn said:
Found it, it was a german video about the Banjo-Kazooie Timeline. I'll quickly watch it and translate the relevant part

Click to expand...

Firstly, damn, that video is 10 yrs old...

Secondly, here's the relevant part (roughly):
It's important to look at the last thing Klungo said to Gruntilda when leaving her. He wanted to work at a desk and potentially develop dumb games. He worked on that, and thus, Banjo-Pilot was made. [...] The reason [for this theory] is the character selection. There are characters in the game that [Banjo and Kazooie] meet for the first time in Banjo-Tooie, but also the original Gruntilda, still with her green body, is present. That's the reason why Banjo-Pilot couldn't happen in the lives of Banjo and Kazooie. Thus, to fit it in regardless, the game was programmed by Klungo. And hey, it even works with the next entry. [...] After Banjo-Tooie and Klungo's first try at programming, many years passed. Then, Banjo-Kazooie Nuts'n'Bolts followed. [...] Klungo opened his own arcade with own games in this game. Although he practiced with Banjo-Pilot, his arcade games weren't really that good.
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Honestly, don't think that holds that much ground and can be disregarded, the memory just popped into my head when I read that games' title. Sorry ^^"
 
Hi I'm new here but I have a lot of notes. Mario + Rabbids was confirmed by the devs to be noncanon to Mario (it's still canon to Rabbids though apparently so if you want to include it on a separate timeline for that franchise you can.

I don't think you should count Sim City as evidence for when Mario was born, he's considered 24/25 in Donkey Kong Arcade and 30 in Dr Luigi, and in Color Splash Huey says Mario has been fighting Bowser for 30 years (counting yoshis Island is started at his birth)

Banjo and Conker were apparently never considered part of the Mario universe according to Rareware devs, Greg mayles I believe said this on Twitter I could maybe find it later. (Also Banjo Pilot was confirmed in an in-universe blog to be a dream Kazooie had during the gap between Tooie and N&B)

The Paper games DO take place in another universe but it's worth noting the exact same events happen in both universes since in Paper Jam the 2 Peach's mention they lived identical lives. Also Bowser created Goomboss with the Star Rod and he later appears in Non-Paper Games. The TTYD characters even appear on scoreboards in sports spinoffs.

You shouldn't include games set on earth without a [Parallel Earth] marker. Mario takes place on a very different earth, you can see in Odyssey the full globe and the continents are extremely different and there's no real life locations. They do go to real earth in some games but it's usually implied to be a parallel universe, like in the GameBoy golf spinoffs we see Peach's castle in the clouds not on Earth, implying it's some kind of dimensional gateway (my personal headcanon is they used the castles 120 stars from Mario 64 to travel to the Real World Earth since in Galaxy it's stated 120 stars are what's needed to travel to parallel universes). It also kinda has to be a parallel Earth since F-1 race is set pre-end of Cold war due to a guy in the game being from East Germany and in Mario Kart Tour it's clearly present day earth so obviously some time dilation is going on (perhaps 1 year on Marios earth = 5 or so on Tour Earth) p.s. most fans call the parallel Earth tour earth
 
Also SabreWulf from the Sabreman series isn't connected to SabreWulf from Killer Instinct. SabreWulf in Sabreman is some kind of ancient creature iirc, think the nemean lion from Greek mythology. While the SabreWulf in KI was a guy bit by a werewolf. It's just the same name because rare wanted a callback to their previous history, not a shared universe implication.
 
Also... For crossovers and cameos in general Nintendo seems to be mostly against shared universes unfortunately? Like they confirmed in an interview or something awhile back that Rhythm Heaven isn't a part of the Mario universe and the characters that appear in Warioware are just variants (which is sad since they expanded on those characters in Warioware a little bit like Cricket and stuff) this is further seen in other Nintendo series like Kid Icarus where the characters straight up break the 4th wall to say it's not the same universe as Metroid when Pit compares the Komaytos to Metroids. Same with confirming James McCloud from Star Fox isn't the same James McCloud in the F-Zero series. Again really lame but thems the breaks
 
Also, in Mario Kart 8 and Tour we see a Submarine on Mario's planet with a current expedition going on labeled 2014-2015 placing those games sometime in that time frame. And in Warioware 1 the opening says it's 200X (also March according to the in-universe diary on an official website). Meaning the Mario franchises present day probably occurs from 2007-2013 up through Dr Luigi, then MK8 through Tour plus most of the surrounding games in 2014-2015 and then Mario Maker 1 crosses over into 2016 (the tie in comic online has a story set on new years 2016) and then DK Bananza and Mario Kart World (Kart Worlds photo mode has 2025 dates) set years later in 2025. Bananza is weird it might be retconning all of DK in a prequel (this would decanonize GameBoy DK if so.) but the Metro Kingdom City Hall is under construction in Odyssey and is only seen finished in DK Bananza sooooooo yeah Bananza could just be set years later
 
Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I’ve linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I’ll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they’re kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I’m personally disregarding that
 
The SabreWulf/Killer Instinct connection was made by myself, I clearly didn’t do enough research for that, I’ll remove that too (while I currently haven’t added games for it, it’s still listed in connections)
 
stphylcccs said:
Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I’ve linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I’ll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they’re kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I’m personally disregarding that
Click to expand...
Will you add a [Banjo Universe] and [Conker Universe] marker for those games because of what Greg Mayles said?
 
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