Mario Timeline

[stphylcccs]

Paper Mario also happens in the main Mario universe too though, remember what I said about Goomboss and stuff earlier?

Goomboss on the Mushroom World first appears in Mario 64 DS, a retelling of the original game. This wouldn't align with his date of creation in the Paper Universe. If it's established original characters have a different origin in the Paper Universe, why would you assume every original character other than Goomboss has the same origin, with the same events occuring to them?

 

[Elly]

Goomboss on the Mushroom World first appears in Mario 64 DS, a retelling of the original game. This wouldn't align with his date of creation in the Paper Universe. If it's established original characters have a different origin in the Paper Universe, why would you assume every original character other than Goomboss has the same origin, with the same events occuring to them?

Read Sean's timeline that Megatron linked, Paper Mario occurs before Super Mario 64, and remakes replace the originals in the timeline

 

[Elly]

616 and 199999 develop their Gregorian calendars separate to each other; they are their own calendars. They are not made to align with each other. It is well established that the two calendars do not align due to time dilation. The Gregorian calendars on Earth and the Mushroom World align with each other, so it is unreasonable to assume they don't. Furthermore, no time dilation occurs in Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 due to the millennium event still taking place, which only happens every 100 years for a few days at most. If no time dilation occurs here, why would you assume it occurs for the Mushroom World and Earth, under the basis that you want games to happen close together

The only event that definitively takes place in both the Paper and regular universes is Super Mario Bros. (and Paper Jam, I guess, but that's different). While it can be assumed that the Paper universe is similar to the normal world, clearly not every event that ever occurs is the same, otherwise there's no point in even establishing they're separate universes. Since the Paper Universe is a book, it can be assumed that most - if not all - normal world events occur in the Paper Universe, but not all Paper Universe events occur in the normal world.

I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree then, because I still think Tour Earth is in a separate dimension they travel to and runs on a different timeline

 

[stphylcccs]

Read Sean's timeline that Megatron linked, Paper Mario occurs before Super Mario 64, and remakes replace the originals in the timeline

... based on the premise that the Paper universe events all occur in the Mushroom World (if that was the case, why even make them distinct universes?)

 

[stphylcccs]

I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree then, because I still think Tour Earth is in a separate dimension they travel to and runs on a different timeline

Agree to disagree, I guess

 

[Elly]

... based on the premise that the Paper universe events all occur in the Mushroom World (if that was the case, why even make them distinct universes?)

In paper jam they say the universes are identical I'm pretty sure, again they just wanted to combine both styles for a fun game it's not that complicated.

 

[Elly]

Even if we disagree on Years and such I think you should still look through the timeline I keep mentioning, I think you will mostly agree with the Game Order and evidence on there.

Also if you're including GBA SabreWulf you should include the rest of the Sabreman series, the original Sabre Wulf, UnderWurlde, Knight Lore and Pentagram. SabreWulf GBA isn't a remake and takes place years after the original series

 

[stphylcccs]

Also if you're including GBA SabreWulf you should include the rest of the Sabreman series, the original Sabre Wulf, UnderWurlde, Knight Lore and Pentagram. SabreWulf GBA isn't a remake and takes place years after the original series

Yes, this isn’t finished yet, I have quite a few games I still need to add

 

[stphylcccs]

Even if we disagree on Years and such I think you should still look through the timeline I keep mentioning, I think you will mostly agree with the Game Order and evidence on there.

I’ve skimmed over it, I’ll look more thoroughly into it when I have the time

 

[stphylcccs]

In paper jam they say the universes are identical I'm pretty sure, again they just wanted to combine both styles for a fun game it's not that complicated.

Paper Jam states that many people are the same, though that this is the only similarity between the two. Gimmicks in the paper games are incompatible without Paper, so unless you’re entirely changing the plot and motives of the games they shouldn’t be assumed to be identical universes

 

[Elly]

Paper Jam states that many people are the same, though that this is the only similarity between the two. Gimmicks in the paper games are incompatible without Paper, so unless you’re entirely changing the plot and motives of the games they shouldn’t be assumed to be identical universes

Ehh, I mean they do the paper mechanic on regular Non-Paper Petey piranha in Paper Jam so idk. Plus in Mario & Luigi Luigi turns into a surfboard and stuff so it's not like it's out of the possibility for the non-paper versions of the characters to do weird morphing like that.

 

[Elly]

I’ve skimmed over it, I’ll look more thoroughly into it when I have the time

For example it mentions, according to Mario Maker, Mario Bros arcade leads directly into Super Mario Bros

 

[Elly]

I just personally am very passionate about the Mario timeline and was primarily the reason I made an account for this site finally is that I could provide some insight for it here. Sorry if I came across as combative over it.

 

[stphylcccs]

I get where you're coming from, I have been like that for a lot of franchises on here. Generally though, waltzing in and saying "This is all wrong because I have a different interpretation of how the franchise works in order to make it very easy to document it" isn't the best way to go about it. I know that obviously wasn't the intent at all, though it comes across that way and generally will be interpreted that way.

I do greatly appreciate the help, I have taken a lot of it into consideration and acted accordingly, mostly with official statements, though I have found a lot of the adjustments given are based on the other timeline being taken as fact.

I am probably going to do a lot of shuffling around (mostly with the earlier games) to actually fit a narrative of sorts, though I don't have time now to do the research and apply them accordingly (I don't want to just take the evidence on the second timeline as absolute, since when I skimmed it there didn't seem to be any counter-evidence for alternate interpretations, and the creator took many interpretations they thought were trivial as definitively canon to the game(s) being spoken about

 

[stphylcccs]

I did, however, do some research and Diddy Kong Racing never even mentions Kazooie's absence in the game, so it doesn't need to be before Banjo-Kazooie, as there are a plethora of reasons Kazooie didn't show up - the most likely being Diddy Kong is more acquainted with Banjo specifically

 

[Elly]

I get where you're coming from, I have been like that for a lot of franchises on here. Generally though, waltzing in and saying "This is all wrong because I have a different interpretation of how the franchise works in order to make it very easy to document it" isn't the best way to go about it. I know that obviously wasn't the intent at all, though it comes across that way and generally will be interpreted that way.

I do greatly appreciate the help, I have taken a lot of it into consideration and acted accordingly, mostly with official statements, though I have found a lot of the adjustments given are based on the other timeline being taken as fact.

I am probably going to do a lot of shuffling around (mostly with the earlier games) to actually fit a narrative of sorts, though I don't have time now to do the research and apply them accordingly (I don't want to just take the evidence on the second timeline as absolute, since when I skimmed it there didn't seem to be any counter-evidence for alternate interpretations, and the creator took many interpretations they thought were trivial as definitively canon to the game(s) being spoken about

Yeah sorry I just wanted to get all my thoughts out at once since I had been thinking about all of this for a few days before coming here

 

[Elly]

I did, however, do some research and Diddy Kong Racing never even mentions Kazooie's absence in the game, so it doesn't need to be before Banjo-Kazooie, as there are a plethora of reasons Kazooie didn't show up - the most likely being Diddy Kong is more acquainted with Banjo specifically

I thought rojinn showed it was stated in an official bio or something?

 

[stphylcccs]

I thought rojinn showed it was stated in an official bio or something?

They recounted it, but didn't show any source. I initially didn't mind, but I couldn't find the quote anywhere so they could just be remembering wrong. Diddy Kong Racing released before Banjo-Kazooie, so they were just showing off the Banjo character since they already had the model (at least, that's the reason he was included) so they had no need to state he didn't come with Kazooie, or that they hadn't met, since Kazooie wasn't an established character. The reason DK Racing is where it is, is because the DS port features a matured Tiny Kong, which happens around the time of the placement

 

[Elly]

They recounted it, but didn't show any source. I initially didn't mind, but I couldn't find the quote anywhere so they could just be remembering wrong. Diddy Kong Racing released before Banjo-Kazooie, so they were just showing off the Banjo character since they already had the model (at least, that's the reason he was included) so they had no need to state he didn't come with Kazooie, or that they hadn't met, since Kazooie wasn't an established character. The reason DK Racing is where it is, is because the DS port features a matured Tiny Kong, which happens around the time of the placement

Btw I think for Conker you could technically count the remake as a separate event since Conker acknowledges in the first part of the game with the gargoyle that this has all happened before. Live and Reloaded also has a multiplayer mode set in the past and the future, the future one is set like 200 years in the future iirc? So it'd probably be the furthest thing in the future in your timeline. There's also Conker's Big Reunion which was part of the Project Spark video game. As well as Young Conker which was a game on the Microsoft eye thing or whatever it was called

 

[Elly]

Also for Banjo we see in Nuts and Bolts in the horizon that Ghoulhaven Hall from Grabbed by the Ghoulies is near showdown town. I'm not sure if Showdown town is the same universe as banjo or not though so I don't know if that means GBTG happens in banjos world, since iirc all the different levels in Nuts and Bolts take place in different "game worlds" or whatever. I think it can go either way