Was just telling Ultxon now on MSN that if they have Captain America wake up here, it would be awesome that when Cap is waking and is trying to escape, somehow (details obviously not important here) Abomination escapes and Cap fights him there, bare hands and all.

That would rock.
 
I thought if they did indeed have more than one Avengers movie Ultron would have to be the villain in the first film. Maybe have Loki pull a string here, alter a reality there. Have Ultron be a robotic AI that Pym creates to assist in search and rescue, security and other things. Have Loki give him an even more advance Intelligence and a drive to eradicate all humans. Ultron would be a threat to the Avengers because he'd have all of SHIELD's files on the defense of the country and the Avengers themselves. Once the Avengers stop Ultron Loki decides to reveal himself and take down the heroes himself by bringing the Asguardian monsters a la Ultimates 2 down on top of the Avengers. They'd fight and the Avengers would be victorious. You could always set the seeds for a future film by Fury telling the Avengers how the Triskellion holds the superhuman enemies that they go against. Have files showing inmates Emil Blonsky, Chen Lu, Gennady Gavrilov and maybe some other villain's names that belong to the Masters of Evil. I'd like to see Helmut Zemo as a corporate rival to Stark who's benifitted from them haulting their weapons programs and has financed the construction of the Triskellion. Have him be the son of Heinrich Zemo, who was the Nazi scientist that put Captain America on ice and killed Bucky. I don't know what would set him off, probably Captain America's reemergance but he would use his knowlege of the Triskellion to break the Abomination and other cirminals out to go against the Avengers. Even if the highly unlikely third movie would come out I would like to see a Kree-Skrull War with maybe Captain Mar-Vehl helping the humans fight off the invasion. Even throw in the elements of the Skrull being behind the empowerment of the Nazis in WW2 as a means of attacking the Kree. Of course this would all depend on how much the actors would want to come back for each film but it worked for so many actors in the Ocean's movies.

And on the members who should be in the Avengers since Cap, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are definites you could add Pym and the Wasp and maybe Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch. Vision and Mar Vehl could be introduced in later films. But of course this all depends on who they get for the film and what they plan with it. I just think that Ultron, the Masters of Evil and the Kree-Skrull War are the biggest events in Avengers history and should be the ones highlighted in a film series.
 
Zombi makes a lot of good points in his posts about multiple villains. I'm actually starting to agree with him in seeing how focusing on the hero vs. villain arcs in the story. Good stuff.

Thank you.

Like said, I think there's a dozen ways it could be done.

I know how I'd do it, and I might get to that late night, if I'm not too drunk to manage.
 
Was just telling Ultxon now on MSN that if they have Captain America wake up here, it would be awesome that when Cap is waking and is trying to escape, somehow (details obviously not important here) Abomination escapes and Cap fights him there, bare hands and all.

That would rock.

btw, that idea is wicked.
 
CBR:


IGN spoke to Marvel movie mogul Kevin Feige. "Our instincts are definitely leading us towards some specific directions for it. It will be a challenge. But I think what we've done in the past, and particularly my experience on the X-Men films where we balanced, you know, 'X-Men 2' had half a dozen villains and more than a half a dozen heroes. And 'Avengers' won't have that many characters in it," Feige said. "More importantly, it'll be how does each character get their due. And frankly I think the joy of the 'Avengers' in addition to the splash-page, blow-out action scenes with all of them in the frame together, what I'm actually more excited about is the scene interactions between them because you don't find two more different people than Tony Stark and Steve Rogers as everybody knows who reads the comics."



I am guessing that this means it won't have so many villains as people want/think it will have.
 
CBR:


IGN spoke to Marvel movie mogul Kevin Feige. "Our instincts are definitely leading us towards some specific directions for it. It will be a challenge. But I think what we've done in the past, and particularly my experience on the X-Men films where we balanced, you know, 'X-Men 2' had half a dozen villains and more than a half a dozen heroes. And 'Avengers' won't have that many characters in it," Feige said. "More importantly, it'll be how does each character get their due. And frankly I think the joy of the 'Avengers' in addition to the splash-page, blow-out action scenes with all of them in the frame together, what I'm actually more excited about is the scene interactions between them because you don't find two more different people than Tony Stark and Steve Rogers as everybody knows who reads the comics."



I am guessing that this means it won't have so many villains as people want/think it will have.

I'm guessing just the original lineup for the team in the comics. Maybe Widow, Hawkeye or Scarlet Witch as a seventh but that's doubtful.
 
I'm guessing just the original lineup for the team in the comics. Maybe Widow, Hawkeye or Scarlet Witch as a seventh but that's doubtful.
Yeah, that as well. Especially as the first Avengers film (yeah, yeah. I'm in the mindset that there'll be future installments at some point), it works better.

I mean, hey, Millar didn't have Widow or Hawkeye for Ultimates 1 vol. 1! :p

As for Scarlet Witch, I want to say she'd be probably a no-go at all, since she falls under the X-Men world, and I'm sure that even she wasn't in the movies, FOX wouldn't want a character from the X-Men mytho anywhere else unless they got some piece of pie. Who knows.
 
Yeah, that as well. Especially as the first Avengers film (yeah, yeah. I'm in the mindset that there'll be future installments at some point), it works better.

I mean, hey, Millar didn't have Widow or Hawkeye for Ultimates 1 vol. 1! :p

As for Scarlet Witch, I want to say she'd be probably a no-go at all, since she falls under the X-Men world, and I'm sure that even she wasn't in the movies, FOX wouldn't want a character from the X-Men mytho anywhere else unless they got some piece of pie. Who knows.

Considering FOX's new game plan seems to be establishing an X-Men franchise with original creations, I get the impression that FOX is trying to make the franchise feasible for when the time comes around and they lose the rights to make movies with Marvel-created X-characters.

I'd guess those rights are going to open back up to Marvel Studios fairly soon.

Ice said:
I am guessing that this means it won't have so many villains as people want/think it will have.

Uh.... How many villains do people want/think it will have?
 
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Prepare yourself guys. I've scrabbled together an idea for how a multi-villains Avenger movie could work. Not necessarily how it should work, but at least how it could work, and still turn out pretty decent. Don't mind the formatting. I cut and pasted it out of Notepad. I believe this is a very feasible blueprint for an Avengers movie featuring four heroes on the team (Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America),
and four villains (Mandarin, Red Skull, Loki, and Ultron). The Mandarin is the production end of things, the Red Skull the general, Loki their inside man, and Ultron the weapon. I'll detail broad brushstrokes
about how the lead-in hero films could build to it and then jump into the meat of the Avengers film itself. I don't think this is the only way to do a multi-
villain Avengers film, and it certainly isn't the best, but it at least makes the argument that a film of this magnitude could be pulled off.

Iron Man 2 - Basically, Armor Wars. The lid finally breaks on the sort of catastropophe hinted at in the first film. Stark's technology is freely being
traded on the black market, and has come into the hands of all sorts of rogue groups. S.H.I.E.L.D. is laying increasing pressure on Stark to accept their
help, but he's wary of working too closely with the military. He ends up facing off against the most threatening of these rogue powers, a renegade general
from either the former USSR or China known as the Crimson Dynamo. At the end of the movie, we get a teaser as Dum Dum Dugan or Nick Fury reveals to Stark
intel on the mystery supplier of his weaponry - a Middle Eastern warlord known as the Mandarin who runs a criminal empire called the Ten Rings and has
a history with Stane dating back to the first film.

Hulk 2 - Banner's still on the run, this time facing the Leader, who has the brilliant tactical insight to always be one step ahead of Banner. The climax of
the film signals a reversal of the script for the first. Instead of being put into a situation where Banner has to become the Hulk to save lives, the Hulk is
put into a situation where he has to revert to Banner to save lives. He defeats the Leader, but the Leader's set in motion a chain of events where Banner is
forced to realize that if he doesn't surrender, lives will be lost. The teaser at the end reveals Bruce Banner's new government handler - a psychiatrist who
calls himself Gunnar Golmen but reveals himself to be Loki.

Thor - The framing device is Thor in a mental institution, his sanity uncertain, under the depraved care of Gunnar Golmen, a man he believes to be his brother
Loki. The majority of the film takes lace in Asgard, where the Nordic Gods are in the heat of the final battle Ragnarok, against the children of Loki,
monstrosities that mix mythology with the horrors of industrialized warfare. We see the pyrrhic struggle of the gods, Thor's fall, and his banishment to
Midgard. In Midgard, we see Thor befriending a fellow inmate called Donald Blake who gives him hope and insight into the human condition, and we see Loki
twisting the psyches of some of the more depraved inmates and blessing them with Asgardian relics that turn them into the monstrous Wrecking Crew. The
denouement has the question of Thor's sanity put to rest as he reclaims his powers and puts down Loki's henchmen. We finale with him returning to Asgard to
teach the gods what he's learned, and discover that Odin sent Thor away not for punishment, but to become a savior for the gods. Thor returns to Earth. The
tease shows Iron Man meeting up with Thor.

Captain America - I think Proj's comments in the Captain America thread are absolutely right. We need glimpses into Cap's uncovering in the modern day so
that it doesn't have to become as integral a part of the Avenger's movie. Basically, Cap tears his way across the WWII theaters of war, piecing together
the horrors of the Nazi super-soldier program and establishing the history of superheroes in the Marvel film universe. He's in pursuit of the Red Skull,
who is more than a Nazi, but rather an opportunist who sees the Nazi party as a springboard for him to achieve his own goals. I'd take a page from Raiders
of the Lost Ark. The Skull is in search of some relic of unimaginable power (maybe something Nordic, as a nod of the head to the Thor franchise) but
ultimately discovers that he's not equipped to handle its true power. His face is scarred as a result of his hubris but he blames Captain America. Rogers is
frozen. The teaser is, I don't know, maybe the revelation that Loki and Red Skull are in cahoots?

Anyway, to the Avengers film itself. It's rough, and it would need a whole mess of work before it could function as a real treatment, but I think the ideas
at the heart of it are sound.

Act one is The Avengers vs. the Hulk. We have a meeting of top American generals (maybe an excuse to cameo Gen. Ross and Dum Dum Dugan) who are looking for a
way to greenlight the Avengers Project. The heroes are reticent to enlist themselves with the military for their own reasons seen in their own films, and the
public is wary of fighting another war. Resident expert psychiatrist Gunnar Golman, who has been assigned to recondition Banner as a suitable weapon, suggests
a staged rampage by the Hulk. He insures them the property damage can be controlled and that the heroes they're looking to recruit would be forced to act. The
plan goes into effect. The Avengers take down the Hulk, and we get the first glimpses of how they interact with each other. The Avengers Project is greenlit,
the penitent Bruce Banner is put into SHIELD custody as the Avengers' secret weapon (in the sub-basement of the Triskelion, along with all the other super
villains that SHIELD has managed to capture), and Gunnar is transfered to the Triskelion to continue his work with Hulk and the rest of the inmates. We get
interactions between the men behind the masks as the move into the Trisk.

Act two gives us the public's reaction to the Avengers and the inner workings of how they interact as a team. The Hulk remains imprisoned, and gets visits
from most of the key characters. Tony Stark is insistent on hunting down this terrorist cell that calls itself The Ten Rings (or maybe HYDRA). Thor's convinced
that the resident shrink is Loki, but no one believes him or his assertions that he's a god. We maybe get a look at the Avengers functioning as a military
unit abroad. Finally they discover a HYDRA production facility in the desert, and the Avengers are sent to strike. A fleet of unmanned robots are sent to
fight them. Iron Man gets his epic showdown with the Mandarin, in his own armor, and defeats him. A twist on the "human weapons" theme comes to light in the
conflict, the idea that you don't need a standing army to fight a war anymore. You just need the money and the technology. What chance does one man in armor
stand against an army of programmed, unmanned "Ultron" robots? Cap, meanwhile, is on the ground, and has descended into the heart of the base, which is
much larger than they ever thought. It's a production facility burrowing miles into the desert. Worse, they seem to be shutting down production, as if the
facility has finished serving its purpose. His communication with the other Avengers is lost as HYDRA sets the base to self destruct. Iron Man and Thor return
home. Cap is presumed dead.

Act three. The team has already fractured. Tension between Thor and the military-industrial complex has driven him away from SHIELD. Tony Stark is drinking
heavily. They won, but everyone knows there's more to the story than they can gather. Tony Stark is trying to fit the pieces together, but the whiskey-haze
is getting in the way. Captain America, meanwhile, is in the custody of the Red Skull, aboard a flying fortress manned by his elite guard, who have all been
treated with watered-down versions of the super soldier serum. We discover that Loki has been feeding him the technology to construct the helicarrier they're
on, as well as blueprints and specs for the Triskelion, details on the most advanced forms of the super-soldier serum, and advanced schematics that Stark has
been working on, which became the blueprints for the Ultron technology. They're ready for their strike on American soil, and the Skull wants Captain America
to watch. Loki reveals himself to Bruce Banner just before hijacking the Triskelion, orchestrating a break on the prison levels while using the power grid
as a mainframe to orchestrate the Ultron attack. A drugged Bruce Banner has to force himself into a rage beyond the drugs, to fight his way through a prison
break of super-powered lunatics. Thor and Captain America have to defend New York City against a swarm of Ultrons and berserker monsters crafted by Loki
out of industrial warfare machinery and mutant super-soldier experiments. Captain America is butchering his way through HYDRA's helicarrier, floating above
New York City. In the end, everyone gets their just desserts. Thor fights his way to the Triskelion and gives Loki what he finally deserves. Iron Man repels
the grossly misused monstrosities created with his technology. Hulk gets his chance at redemption. And Captain America finally squares off against the Red
Skull for all the marbles.

The best way to do it would be to make it a two-parter shot back-to-back, Kill Bill style. After all, if you manage to get all these big stars together in
one place, you may as well squeeze as much production out of it as you possibly can. A good split would be the end of the Iron Man/Mandarin showdown in the
desert. Give it sort of an Empire Strikes Back cliffhanger. They won the battle, but there's still lots of threads floating around. They have no clue what
the bad guys' true intent was, and Captain America is missing. A vol.1/Vol.2 thing would allow you to squeeze in a handful of extra set pieces, really flesh
out more of the character bits, and maybe cameo some background characters (Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver anyone?). For that matter, if you cast a
relative unknown for Captain America and did the same for the three guys mentioned above, that would open up a feasible and less complicated route for
producing a second Avengers movie. Get Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver together and do Cap's Kooky Quartet. There are really two ways you could end the film. Either the "Yay! Good guys won!" easy route or the "We've seen the mistakes the military has made getting to the end and you're just damn lucky
we happened to be around. We are NOT happy" ending. I think the latter would be a good lead-in to follow-up Avengers films (Secret Avengers, anyone?).
 
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I think they're really trying to use all the original members in this so you'd have to work Pym and Van Dyne in. Otherwise it's not bad. I really like the Thor premise.
 
I think they're really trying to use all the original members in this so you'd have to work Pym and Van Dyne in. Otherwise it's not bad. I really like the Thor premise.

Are you sure about that? As it stands now, I'm thinking the Avengers movie will feature only Cap, Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor. I'm not saying Wasp/Giant Man won't appear, but my gut tells me they won't.
 
Are you sure about that? As it stands now, I'm thinking the Avengers movie will feature only Cap, Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor. I'm not saying Wasp/Giant Man won't appear, but my gut tells me they won't.

I'm really thinking that they want to use the original lineup. And why not? Pym and Wasp are good enough characters to be included in the lineup.
 
What makes you think that?

While Tony, Cap, Thor and Hulk are these indestructable diety like characters the Pyms were always the kind of the more human people on the team compared to them. Hank pops Prozac pills and leads to the creation of the team's greatest nemesis which gives him that fractured edge to him. Janet's kind of self-absorbed and into the hero worship that the Avengers recieve but still cares about her husband's faults.

But as I type this I realize that they just add more characterization to them. Cap's got the man out of time angle, Tony has the Howard Hughes character down pat, Thor is the seemingly nutcase outlook on life in that he's a god, and Hulk has the Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde aspect to his character. Pym and Wasp are the odd couple of the group, they're constantly bickering and arguing with each other but when it comes down to it they love each other. If I had my way I would add Clint for that rebellious counter-hero and Wanda and Pietro for the troubled sins of the past redemptionists. While these aren't the only character types that these people portray they're the most interesting aspects of the characters. I think that the Pyms really could just add a lot to the characters.
 
I'm really thinking that they want to use the original lineup. And why not? Pym and Wasp are good enough characters to be included in the lineup.

Limited screen time is why. Even though Cap, Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man will all get their establishing time in their own movies, they'll still need to be established in their new team dynamic in the Avengers movie.

Also, Wasp and Giant Man probably won't compare to the cool factor of the big 4 (cap, thor, Iron man, Hulk) in kids eyes (or in the merchandiser's eyes).

When it comes down to it, from both a story standpoint and a merchandising standpoint, I doubt the studios and PTB will bother with Jan or Hank.
 
I'd be kind of stunned if they didn't include the Pyms..... if nothing else, for a strong female presense on the team.


Or maybe The Black Widow. Then add the other two sequel time (as Avengers 2 would need new members)
 
Or maybe The Black Widow. Then add the other two sequel time (as Avengers 2 would need new members)

I find the Black Widow to be a completely uninteresting character. I would much prefer to see Janet or Wanda used than Natasha for a film. And Hawkeye needs to be in it.
 

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