Avengers movie discussion (news/etc.)

[SSJmole]

I find the Black Widow to be a completely uninteresting character. I would much prefer to see Janet or Wanda used than Natasha for a film. And Hawkeye needs to be in it.

That's why I suggested her.

She could blend in to the movie and with Shield been involved she would be believable. Leave other heroes till sequel and you have a great movie

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Someone should make a poll about which characters you'd want in the movies. Yes, I made two posts about polls today.

 

[Ice]

Someone should make a poll about which characters you'd want in the movies. Yes, I made two posts about polls today.

Lists the characters and I'll add it.

 

[Planet-man]

I'd pretty much just want the original Ultimates. Fury, Stark, Banner/Hulk(but a good guy), unfrozen Steve Rogers, Giant-Man, the Wasp, Ultimate Thor.... that's all I need.

 

[The Overlord]

I'd pretty much just want the original Ultimates. Fury, Stark, Banner/Hulk(but a good guy), unfrozen Steve Rogers, Giant-Man, the Wasp, Ultimate Thor.... that's all I need.

Well if Hulk is a good guy, they would need some sort of villain to provide conflict. Which is why a straight adaption of the ultimates wouldn't work, too many elements in the movies are different.

You need Ultron or someone to mix things up.

 

[Planet-man]

I wouldn't start with Ultron, but I can easily see bringing the Abomination back, and maybe even Iron Monger and the Red Skull(if they use him in the Cap movie). If the Avengers movie is going to be a one-shot, all-or-nothing epic deal, then Ultron would be a great end-all-be-all bad guy. If they're going to do two or more, I'd save Ultron for a later film.

 

[moonmaster]

I would say put all you eggs in one basket.

Because we should be grateful if they can do this right once. It's already kind of a big deal that you've got people like Robert Downey Jr. and Edward Norton committing to franchises, let alone two franchises. The point is, that if you have sequels to the solo movies as well as a whole series of Avengers movies, the actors aren't going to have any time to, y'know, make other movies.

The only way I could see it working is if there's four or five year between them.

 

[The Overlord]

Limited screen time is why. Even though Cap, Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man will all get their establishing time in their own movies, they'll still need to be established in their new team dynamic in the Avengers movie.

Also, Wasp and Giant Man probably won't compare to the cool factor of the big 4 (cap, thor, Iron man, Hulk) in kids eyes (or in the merchandiser's eyes).

When it comes down to it, from both a story standpoint and a merchandising standpoint, I doubt the studios and PTB will bother with Jan or Hank.

You need the pyms to play off these characters though, with all the iconic characters, it would be interesting to have two less powerful and more disfuctional people to play off the big heroes.

Plus you need at least one female character (if they go with Ultimate Wasp, it also means having someone who isn't just white on the main team).

 

[Zombipanda]

While Tony, Cap, Thor and Hulk are these indestructable diety like characters the Pyms were always the kind of the more human people on the team compared to them. Hank pops Prozac pills and leads to the creation of the team's greatest nemesis which gives him that fractured edge to him. Janet's kind of self-absorbed and into the hero worship that the Avengers recieve but still cares about her husband's faults.

But as I type this I realize that they just add more characterization to them. Cap's got the man out of time angle, Tony has the Howard Hughes character down pat, Thor is the seemingly nutcase outlook on life in that he's a god, and Hulk has the Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde aspect to his character. Pym and Wasp are the odd couple of the group, they're constantly bickering and arguing with each other but when it comes down to it they love each other. If I had my way I would add Clint for that rebellious counter-hero and Wanda and Pietro for the troubled sins of the past redemptionists. While these aren't the only character types that these people portray they're the most interesting aspects of the characters. I think that the Pyms really could just add a lot to the characters.

So, when you say you think the studio wants to add the Pyms, you mean you want to add the Pyms. I guess I can see them working in the movie, but on the other hand, I can see it working in any other number of ways. They don't have to be there, and I honestly feel that if you want it to be an iconic sort of Avengers film, adding in these "too human" characters in central roles might actually hinder that. We can talk about how human and odd they are, but I seriously don't see what all they'd add to the movie.

You need the pyms to play off these characters though, with all the iconic characters, it would be interesting to have two less powerful and more disfuctional people to play off the big heroes.

Plus you need at least one female character (if they go with Ultimate Wasp, it also means having someone who isn't just white on the main team).

'sez who?

 

[The Overlord]

So, when you say you think the studio wants to add the Pyms, you mean you want to add the Pyms. I guess I can see them working in the movie, but on the other hand, I can see it working in any other number of ways. They don't have to be there, and I honestly feel that if you want it to be an iconic sort of Avengers film, adding in these "too human" characters in central roles might actually hinder that. We can talk about how human and odd they are, but I seriously don't see what all they'd add to the movie.



'sez who?

Demographics experts and marketers, people will compain if there are no women and alsmot all white people on the team. The team isd more marketable with some women and minorites on the team.

Recently Spike Lee compalined about how there was no black soliders in "Flags of Our Fathers", so people do notice.

 

[Zombipanda]

Demographics experts and marketers, people will compain if there are no women and alsmot all white people on the team. The team isd more marketable with some women and minorites on the team.

Well, after the reconstructive surgery Robert Downey got for Tropic Thunder, we shouldn't have to worry about that, should we?

Recently Spike Lee compalined about how there was no black soliders in "Flags of Our Fathers", so people do notice.

So what you're saying is.... Black Goliath should be on the team?

 

[The Overlord]

Well, after the reconstructive surgery Robert Downey got for Tropic Thunder, we shouldn't have to worry about that, should we?



So what you're saying is.... Black Goliath should be on the team?

Nah, Ncky Fury and Asian wasp are enough.

Still I think you need a woman on the team, considering more than half the population in the America is female, it would be silly not to have one woman on the team.

 

[Zombipanda]

Nah, Ncky Fury and Asian wasp are enough.

Still I think you need a woman on the team, considering more than half the population in the America is female, it would be silly not to have one woman on the team.

Even if there's no real story reason for her to be there?

 

[The Overlord]

Even if there's no real story reason for her to be there?

So there wasn't a story reason in the 616 or Ultimate Universe, when she was there from day one on both of those teams? its kinda like saying Martian Manhunter shouldn't be in a JL movie, because he isn't "iconic" enough.

Like I said, she can play off the more iconic team members, becuase just having iconic characters would be boring.

Is there any good reason why there shouldn't be a woman on the team?

 

[Zombipanda]

So there wasn't a story reason in the 616 or Ultimate Universe, when she was there from day one on both of those teams?

The problem is that comic book writing and movie writing are two different endeavors. The four main guys will have already proven themselves in their own franchises. They already have magnified and instantly relatable characteristics that tell big stories about the human condition. What's the defining story at the heart of the Wasp? What's her story arc going to be? And how are you going to fit it into a movie that's already got a ton of characters, when you have to start with her from scratch? Millar did a great job with the Wasp, but even on Ultimates, her defining stories were completely contingent on her relationship to male characters. I'd really like to see a strong female character in this movie - don't get me wrong - but she needs a reason to fit.

Like I said, she can play off the more iconic team members, becuase just having iconic characters would be boring.

A team consisting of Howard Hughes, Dr. Jekyll, David Ickes, and a patriot from the 40's isn't interesting?

Is there any good reason why there shouldn't be a woman on the team?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a woman on the team. I'm just saying it's a hard sell to integrate her into the story and have her be more than "Avengers Female Member A". And I don't want an "Avengers Female Member A".

 

[DIrishB]

So, when you say you think the studio wants to add the Pyms, you mean you want to add the Pyms. I guess I can see them working in the movie, but on the other hand, I can see it working in any other number of ways. They don't have to be there, and I honestly feel that if you want it to be an iconic sort of Avengers film, adding in these "too human" characters in central roles might actually hinder that. We can talk about how human and odd they are, but I seriously don't see what all they'd add to the movie.



'sez who?

Seriously, Zombi, its like you're my unknown twin or something.

Completely agree.

 

[The Overlord]

The problem is that comic book writing and movie writing are two different endeavors. The four main guys will have already proven themselves in their own franchises. They already have magnified and instantly relatable characteristics that tell big stories about the human condition. What's the defining story at the heart of the Wasp? What's her story arc going to be? And how are you going to fit it into a movie that's already got a ton of characters, when you have to start with her from scratch? Millar did a great job with the Wasp, but even on Ultimates, her defining stories were completely contingent on her relationship to male characters. I'd really like to see a strong female character in this movie - don't get me wrong - but she needs a reason to fit.

A character can fit as well as the writer needs them, the writwers of the recent filsm have done a good job of fitting in characters, who maynot have "fit" at first (They redsigned Obadiah Stane to better fit into Iron Man's origin.)
They can play around with the character a bit.

Plus without Hank Pym, who is supposed to create Ultron?

A team consisting of Howard Hughes, Dr. Jekyll, David Ickes, and a patriot from the 40's isn't interesting?".

Yeah, but we already seen those characters in action in the movies by that point, I want to see some characters that wouldn't have been seen on film in this movie, add some new elements.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a woman on the team. I'm just saying it's a hard sell to integrate her into the story and have her be more than "Avengers Female Member A". And I don't want an "Avengers Female Member A".

I still it would be wrong not to have female character on the team.

 

[Zombipanda]

A character can fit as well as the writer needs them, the writwers of the recent filsm have done a good job of fitting in characters, who maynot have "fit" at first (They redsigned Obadiah Stane to better fit into Iron Man's origin.)
They can play around with the character a bit.

Okay. But how do they make her interesting enough to fit the movie? The difference is exactly how iconic the characters we already have established are. They have a wealth of super villains that are asking for creative redesigns. They have strong concepts that speak to the human condition. Wasp's concept isn't inherently very strong. She's a mutant who turns tiny. The only way Marvel's found so far of giving her a concept is to make her an abuse victim. Give me a legitimate voice for the character that can be organically twined into the film instead of just stapled on, and I might be inclined to agree with you.

Plus without Hank Pym, who is supposed to create Ultron?

Make it derived from Iron Man tech.

Yeah, but we already seen those characters in action in the movies by that point, I want to see some characters that wouldn't have been seen on film in this movie, add some new elements.

Mixing all of these characters isn't "new elements" enough? I'm not adverse to introducing new characters. If they went the "Kill Bill" two volume route, I'd be the first to endorse the introduction of Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Black Widow. I don't see the value of the Pyms for this medium, though.

I still it would be wrong not to have female character on the team.

I think it would be wrong to have an underdeveloped, weak female character just for the sake of putting one in the movie.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

They could design Janet the same way Millar did in Ultimates which was making her a main staple for Hank's research in Growth and Shrinking formulas for the human body. She could also be a subject of racism since she's a mutant and asian (but I doubt they'd go that asian route). Layer that with spousal abuse and maybe a painful family memory(abuse related maybe) and you have a pretty in-depth character.

 

[The Overlord]

Okay. But how do they make her interesting enough to fit the movie? The difference is exactly how iconic the characters we already have established are. They have a wealth of super villains that are asking for creative redesigns. They have strong concepts that speak to the human condition. Wasp's concept isn't inherently very strong. She's a mutant who turns tiny. The only way Marvel's found so far of giving her a concept is to make her an abuse victim. Give me a legitimate voice for the character that can be organically twined into the film instead of just stapled on, and I might be inclined to agree with you.



Make it derived from Iron Man tech.



Mixing all of these characters isn't "new elements" enough? I'm not adverse to introducing new characters. If they went the "Kill Bill" two volume route, I'd be the first to endorse the introduction of Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Black Widow. I don't see the value of the Pyms for this medium, though.



I think it would be wrong to have an underdeveloped, weak female character just for the sake of putting one in the movie.

Making Ultron an off shoot of iron Man's tech, makes Tony look like a screw up and after the character development he went through in his film, Tony should not be a screw up at this point. Hank makes a better screw up then Tony.

Also if wasp is no good, what Black Widow? It would be stupid of SHIELD to create a team of loose cannons and not have an agent on the field to see that the group serves SHIELD's interests.