Batman R.I.P. Discussion (Spoilers!)

[thee great one]

Batman R.I.P. has started.


It was not a bad beginning, the last few pages with The Joker made the entire issue. The Black Glove invited him to there party. Scary.

 

[Bass]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I don't get the appeal of this. The first issue was dull as hell. Everyone's going around acting like something important is about to happen, but nothing happened and I don't understand what I'm supposed to be 'excited' about happening. :/

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I liked it, but was expecting more from it.

Honestly? I wish Morrison would just do a storyarc that dealt entirely with Bruce's relationships with his pseudo-family. Tone down the action, and really reflect on who he is. They've promised a bit of that here, but clearly the focus is on this Black hand group, which didn't seem all that terrifying. The Joker was good, though.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

The second issue of RIP was quite good. Definitely an improvement over the first. Batman's going nuts and Alfred is being beaten to death.

Also, something is up with the Waynes. Specifically Thomas Wayne. It's implied he's had some secret past.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Also, something is up with the Waynes. Specifically Thomas Wayne. It's implied he's had some secret past.

I think we all saw that coming.

 

[Bass]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I think this isn't particularly good.

I don't get any of what's going on. I assume this is because I've not been reading the rest of Morrison's run but... this says "part 2". And I read "part 1". I assume I'm at the 'beginning', but I'm feeling more like this is the 'middle'.

I'm a avid comic book reader, and I can't jump into the first issue of a BATMAN arc without a primer.

This is why mainstream superhero comics are a niche cult, and not mainstream successes like their movie counterparts.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I think this isn't particularly good.

I don't get any of what's going on. I assume this is because I've not been reading the rest of Morrison's run but... this says "part 2". And I read "part 1". I assume I'm at the 'beginning', but I'm feeling more like this is the 'middle'.

I'm a avid comic book reader, and I can't jump into the first issue of a BATMAN arc without a primer.

This is why mainstream superhero comics are a niche cult, and not mainstream successes like their movie counterparts.

I think that's the problem with Morrison's Batman. It's supposed to be a "novel in episodic form". I've been reading it since the start, and thought it was good, but not great. Then, right before the first issue of R.I.P. came out, I sat down and read the whole thing from start to finish.

And it's actually pretty damn excellent. Up until R.I.P. the issues were able to stand fairly well on their own, but you could easily shrug them off. But when you read it all together, it all starts to come together. I for one, really like it. Pacing-wise, it seems to have a lot in common with New X-Men, although I can't say that with certainty, because I didn't read New X-Men until well after it came out, in trades. For the record, I liked New X-Men, but I didn't love it, and felt like some parts were very sketchy. This feels like an evolution of that kind of storytelling.

Basically, it's a mystery story, but you're never entirely sure what the mystery is. There's a series of interweaving themes, but if you don't read it all together, you start to miss a lot of them, mostly because it's not linear. Pieces will be picked up, forgotten for an issue or two, and then revised. Even so, the first arc is a pretty hard means to get into the story, because, even with the context of the story as a whole, it's not nearly as good as what follows it. Even if you don't like the story, I think it can be said pretty objectively that Morrison's writing a Batman story that's never been seen, or at least hasn't been seen in years. It's like a dark nightmare, with all sorts of bizarre fringe elements drawn in from the corners.

As for R.I.P. I can definitely see how a new reader couldn't get into it. I haven't read the second issue yet, and won't get the chance until tomorrow, but it depends heavily on an understanding of the mythology Morrison's already built. The pacing was a little off on the first issue, but I liked it for two reasons. One, I really like Grant's take on the evolution of crime in Gotham City - this idea of the organized crime hierarchy being usurped by costumed crime. The mooks, in turn, are forced to adapt by playing into the henchman game. And now that so many of the established big players are locked away, the city's open for a flood of henches and just plain lunatics who now have an opportunity to get a piece of the playing field. A game that was previously dominated by these intensely polarizing psychotics is now equal opportunity for anyone with a mask and the desire. I also really like the potential of the Black Mask's organization. It draws Batman back to the real roots of the character, a very pulpy feel with a new gallery of bizarre rogues that seems straight out of an old Dick Tracy comic. Tony Daniel's art helps, too. The first couple of issues he was on I wasn't much of a fan, but since then, he's really stepped up his game. I think he's an excellent fit.

I can see how people might not like it, but I'm just eating it up. I know I have a reputation for getting on Grant Morrison's bandwagon, but this is actually really, really good. It just takes a steep investment to enjoy.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Okay, while I was disapointed with the first part of Batman R.I.P, part two was really really good... I like where they are going with this.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

hm.... I'm not sure I entirely buy the mysterious evidence on the Waynes that's just showed up out of nowhere. Someone's being played. These rich, debauched millionaires are playing a game. The first act was the destruction of the Waynes. The next is their ruination. I'd guess Martha Wayne's family is part of the Black Glove. Act two is to tear Bruce Wayne down piece by piece. To smear his family, to isolate him from his friends, to use his own "reckless Bruce Wayne" cover to convince the public that he is quite insane, and then to besmirch the whole family. They thought they'd got rid of the Wayne legacy when they took out Thomas, only to have it revived by Bruce Wayne. Now they need to burn down the whole family.

Also, that page with Bruce and Jet standing in the Batcave, dwarfed by all those silly novelty toys and memorabilia, that was just beautiful.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I thought it was much better than the first issue and I think the whole thing will be amazing in bulk.


The JWIII arc was the best one yet.


I'm also sure that Jet is part of The Black Glove.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I thought it was much better than the first issue and I think the whole thing will be amazing in bulk.


The JWIII arc was the best one yet.


I'm also sure that Fox is part of The Black Glove.

I think Jet is part of the Black Glove. There's parallels in her history to Bruce Wayne, but I think with an easy and subtle twist, they could be turned into a parallel of Talia Al-Ghul.

My favorite arc has been the Three Ghosts of Batman, but the Club of Heroes one was pretty exceptional too, mainly because JWIII is such a brilliant artist.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I meant Jet.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I am also in the Jet is in the Black Glove camp, though I hope i'm wrong.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I am also in the Jet is in the Black Glove camp, though I hope i'm wrong.

I think the other possibility is that Jet's family has been played at the mercy of the Black Glove in the same way as the Waynes.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

If Jezebelle Jet is in the Black Glove it would be the lamest and most obvious reveal in some time.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

If Jezebelle Jet is in the Black Glove it would be the lamest and most obvious reveal in some time.

Every aspect of the story doesn't have to be a shocking twist.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Every aspect of the story doesn't have to be a shocking twist.

Naming a character Jezebelle and having her act badly is a bit much.

Interesting, I did not know this.

Apparently there is a New God named Jezebelle. Perhaps this is a Dark Side Club avatar of her and Batman RIP ties into Final Crisis?

 

[thee great one]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Naming a character Jezebelle and having her act badly is a bit much.

Interesting, I did not know this.

Apparently there is a New God named Jezebelle. Perhaps this is a Dark Side Club avatar of her and Batman RIP ties into Final Crisis?

It says she was in Seven Soldiers. Might have to look that up.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Naming a character Jezebelle and having her act badly is a bit much.

Interesting, I did not know this.

Apparently there is a New God named Jezebelle. Perhaps this is a Dark Side Club avatar of her and Batman RIP ties into Final Crisis?

Eh, the devil's in the details. I think it's less about whether Jezebel Jet is good or bad and more about whether she's interesting.

And we'll get an answer to that once we start to excavate more of her background. I doubt she'll just be an avatar for a New God. Seems like that would negate the little bit of background that's already been established.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

So, I've got to wonder... Could Harvey Dent be the Black Glove? The MO's would fit pretty perfectly. More on this later.