Batman R.I.P. Discussion (Spoilers!)

Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

TGO and I tend to discuss aspects of Morrison's Batman run online frequently and often we discuss who we think the Black Glove may be. Most of the time I tell him weird theories or ideas I come across related to RIP. These have included how Jeremiah Arkham is the Black Glove, secretly releasing all of these villains from Arkham over the years to **** with Batman's psyche. He desires to study Batman and he sees him as the ultimate analysis. I like this idea. Others are a second personality of Bruce Wayne, like Tyler Durden, who's emerged as a result of the crazy **** he's been though, or The Joker's super personalities. Maybe Thomas Wayne... or Alfred. Alfred. I've mentioned him numerous times. He definitely fits Morrison's clues... the whole world know Alfred. Where there's Batman, there's Alfred. The only problem TGO and I saw in this was that Alfred being a villain after all this time would be a huge mind**** and sort of out of place. But then I came across this:



So for some reason, he's been a villain to Batman before. Alfred. WTF?

Personally, I prefer the Arkham idea but it doesn't fit with the clues. Alfred, however, could especially with all those crime novels he loves to read...

Timothy Callahan, the guy who apparently analyses everything Morrison has written, also supports the Alfred as Black Glove theory. He also points out that the prose issue is probably narrated by the Black Glove and therefore Alfred. We all know about Alfred's trashy taste in literature, which would explain the cliches and stuff which people have pointed out in that particular issue of Batman.

I'm against turning Alfred into an outright villain but he really fits. And we know that every Batman story is in Morrison's timeline. So I'm scared.

Eh.... I don't buy it.

The forums are lighting up with all sorts of "Alfred is Black Glove" threads, and Morrison recently went on the record saying no one's guessed it yet.

It seems silly to me. Besides, Hurt just beat the **** out of him and taunted him in front of the Club of Vilains. I think there's got to be a connection to Mangrove Pierce somewhere. Alfred was an actor, and somehow, in the events building to the Wayne's death, he became for some reason involved with them. Is it possible he was an actor in The Black Glove?
 
Re: Batman Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Eh.... I don't buy it.

The forums are lighting up with all sorts of "Alfred is Black Glove" threads, and Morrison recently went on the record saying no one's guessed it yet.

It seems silly to me. Besides, Hurt just beat the **** out of him and taunted him in front of the Club of Vilains. I think there's got to be a connection to Mangrove Pierce somewhere. Alfred was an actor, and somehow, in the events building to the Wayne's death, he became for some reason involved with them. Is it possible he was an actor in The Black Glove?

I don't like Alfred being The Black Glove either. It would completely ruin the character but it definitely fits in with the clues, other than "no one's guessed who it is" which is probably just hyperbole. It reminds me of situations like the traitor in the Ultimates, Ronin in New Avengers etc. Writers aren't going to outright state "Oh, someone has guessed it" though the statement that no one has guessed it coming from Morrison is a lot more believable than Millar or Bendis because no one can really comprehend his mind. This is just one of those things that it's probably better to go along with the ride than try and figure it out yourself.

Also, I've been rereading his Batman run. I was always disappointed when I read it monthly because I'd get a 22 page mind**** but not much else. However, reading it all at once is a great improvement. It's a very good story and I now hope Morrison stays on Batman for a long time to come.
 
Re: Batman/Detective Comics Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Batman #679 preview

Gotham is "a machine designed to make Batman". Awesome. I am excited.
 
Re: Batman/Detective Comics Series Discussion *Spoilers*

must... not.... spoil.... self..... with preview....

Edit: Okay, I cheated. :D I love Grant Morrison's take on Frank Miller's Batman.
 
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Re: Batman/Detective Comics Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I have no idea what is happening and i love it. This is easily the best issue yet. So many great lines...

"Batman thinks of everything, Batman even prepared for psychological attack with a backup identity, remember? He made a secret self to save him. The Batman of Zur-en-arrh."

"We promised Robin to The Joker."

""I'm afraid that you are no longer in charge of this building, Doctor Arkham. It now belongs to The Black Glove."



I'm so scared.
 
Batman R.I.P. Checklist

  • Batman #676-681
  • Detective Comics #846-850
  • Nightwing #147-150
  • Robin #175-176
  • Batman and the Outsiders #11-13

Does anyone know what order it goes in?
 
The tie-ins don't really tie in at all. Detective Comics is about Hush and it only has a mention of The Black Glove. Nightwing... I don't think that even had a mention. Not yet anyway. Robin deals with Robin trying to find Batman... that comes somewhere in the middle of RIP. I have no idea about Batman and the Outsiders.

Honestly, I would avoid the tie-ins. They don't affect RIP at all. You don't need to read them to understand the main story.
 
The tie-ins don't really tie in at all. Detective Comics is about Hush and it only has a mention of The Black Glove. Nightwing... I don't think that even had a mention. Not yet anyway. Robin deals with Robin trying to find Batman... that comes somewhere in the middle of RIP. I have no idea about Batman and the Outsiders.

Honestly, I would avoid the tie-ins. They don't affect RIP at all. You don't need to read them to understand the main story.

So...just to make sure I understand (I haven't started it yet), Batman R.I.P. is told in Batman #676-681, and everything else is a tie in?
 
So...just to make sure I understand (I haven't started it yet), Batman R.I.P. is told in Batman #676-681, and everything else is a tie in?

Yes. Though they shouldn't even be called tie-ins. They're just being labeled as tie-ins so people will buy them.
 
Yes. Though they shouldn't even be called tie-ins. They're just being labeled as tie-ins so people will buy them.

Good to know - thanks. That makes things easier. I'll start reading it tonight.

Thanks to whomever split the discussion out of the Batman thread too.
 
I thought this was good. Still thinking that nearly everything morrison writes somehow involves hallucinations is getting a bit tired...but yeah 'back-up identity' - 'gotham is a machine' ....that's all pretty high concept stuff.
 
This new issue was just as insane. I liked the comment that Batman made to Bat-mite about Robin surviving in the same colors for years. Seriously that is scary awesome.

The new Batman vs The new Joker was as epic as it should of been. The Joker has never been better written with some great lines...

"You actually believed that all it would take is a few chemicals, a couple of days and drug-induced isolation and a cheap little nervous breakdown and you'd have me all figured out? Like there was some rabbit hole you could follow me down to understanding?"

"The real joke is your stubborn, bone deep conviction that somehow, somewhere, all of this makes sense! That's what cracks me up each time!"

I can't wait to get all the HC's and read this in order.
 
The last issue came out. Batman frees himself from his coffin and begins to pull apart The Black Glove. The Joker escapes in an ambulance. Robin is helped by The Batmen of Many Nations. Nightwing escapes from Arkham. Damien pushes an ambulance while Alfred watches.

Batman and Doctor Hurt are in a helicopter that crashes. Nightwing finds the cape/cowl. Bruce Wayne isn't there.

Jet is in her plane which is attacked by Talia's ninja manbats.

It was... okay. Nothing special. I don't know why DC have been hyping this so much. It should just be a little, unique story. But because it's Morrison and it's Batman and it's crazy, then advertise the **** out of it!

My problem is that there are a lot of scenes that feel disjointed. Like they are only in there to show that those characters are involved. Damien, for instance. And in the last issue, didn't it have Jason Todd? He wasn't in this. And Gordon was in the mansion. He just randomly shows up at the crime scene.

I don't know. It will probably be better on rereads like the rest of his run, but I'm still confused. Sometimes I think Morrison tries to hard to **** with readers.

I still don't know who Hurt is. The Devil? Thomas Wayne? The actor? Evil Bruce Wayne?

Oh, and the flashback scene was the best. The bad monk tells Bruce he poisoned him. Then the monk begins to die. Bruce says that the monk blinked and he switched the cups. That is the Batman I love.
 
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My problem is that there are a lot of scenes that feel disjointed. Like they are only in there to show that those characters are involved. Damien, for instance. And in the last issue, didn't it have Jason Todd? He wasn't in this. And Gordon was in the mansion. He just randomly shows up at the crime scene.
Agreed i didn't want to read the tie-ins...now i kinda feel like i should've done to understand what was going on with robin and nightwing.
I still don't know who Hurt is. The Devil? Thomas Wayne? The actor? Evil Bruce Wayne?

I kinda feel like this issue was brilliant and something amazing has happened in the life of batman. But i have absolutely no idea what. maybe it's a false epiphany
Oh, and the flashback scene was the best. The bad monk tells Bruce he poisoned him. Then the monk begins to die. Bruce says that the monk blinked and he switched the cups. That is the Batman I love.

YES YES YES - this is being added to my list of favourite batman quotes. Along with "there are no necessary evils" and "It took a £300,000 space rock to get even with the one in metropolis, with you I just need a penny for a book of matches"
 
I think Hurt is supposed to be....the devil? Maybe? I'm not sure.

Points for attempting to innovate, but ultimately head scratching and disappointing.
 
I just had an interesting idea. If Batman decided to leave his fate unknown intentionally just to study what the effects of Batman disappearing would have, so he could plan for the case where he'd actually die
 
I just had an interesting idea. If Batman decided to leave his fate unknown intentionally just to study what the effects of Batman disappearing would have, so he could plan for the case where he'd actually die

:shock:

I like it.
 
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