Daredevil reboot

I don't want Daredevil interacting with the Avengers at all.
 
A few months ago I would have said that a grim and gritty DD movie was the only way to go, but the current Mark Waid series has me convinced it doesn't have to be that way. It would be better, but it wouldn't be terrible it that wasn't the route they went.
 
I think Daredevil would work well as a MCU TV series. A lawyer drama with both police procedural and superhero elements, ideally on a paid network like HBO or Showtime so it could get a decent budget behind it, though a cable network like FX or AMC could work well also. I think Murdock's profession as a lawyer could serve a TV series well, and offer an interesting dynamic to his vigilantism, and be better explored in series as opposed to a film (though I'm certainly not against a DD film). Just think a series would better serve the character, and then maybe see it transition to a film for MCU Phase 3. And as said Waid's slightly toned down approach to the grit and violence of Miller's version could open it up to a wider audience, though that isn't necessarily a "better" approach. I'm just taking into account that a wider audience leads to the possibility of better ratings and ad revenue.
 
DIrishB said:
I think Daredevil would work well as a MCU TV series. A lawyer drama with both police procedural and superhero elements, ideally on a paid network like HBO or Showtime so it could get a decent budget behind it, though a cable network like FX or AMC could work well also. I think Murdock's profession as a lawyer could serve a TV series well, and offer an interesting dynamic to his vigilantism, and be better explored in series as opposed to a film (though I'm certainly not against a DD film). Just think a series would better serve the character, and then maybe see it transition to a film for MCU Phase 3. And as said Waid's slightly toned down approach to the grit and violence of Miller's version could open it up to a wider audience, though that isn't necessarily a "better" approach. I'm just taking into account that a wider audience leads to the possibility of better ratings and ad revenue.
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I don't hate it.
 
Wow DIrishB, found the one thing in the universe that MWoF doesn't Hate... Does this mean that ManWithoutFear will no longer be the Grumpiest Oldest young man ever anymore??
 
the watcher said:
Wow DIrishB, found the one thing in the universe that MWoF doesn't Hate... Does this mean that ManWithoutFear will no longer be the Grumpiest Oldest young man ever anymore??
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Watcher I don't know if how old you are or made the mistake of calling me "young man" by comparison to your own age but thank you.

Is the any word on if Disney/Marvel has any ideas yet what to do with the character?
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Watcher I don't know if how old you are or made the mistake of calling me "young man" by comparison to your own age but thank you.

Is the any word on if Disney/Marvel has any ideas yet what to do with the character?
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Not yet. They probably aren't going to do a DD film until Phase 3, so I'd expect it in 3-5 years. They've got a pretty full slate already through 2015, though you never know. I'm sure they're just starting the process of how they'll approach it, then start looking at script-writers. It'll probably be several years at least though.
 
They'll probably show DD characters in other movies though. I'm sure we might see Bullseye or the Hand or something
 
I would like to see them connected using Kingpin as a recurring character.
 
I want kingpin in a Spider-Man movie! You know, considering he was a Spidey villain way before Frank Miller stole him and made him way more awesome as a DD villain.
 
Captain Canuck said:
I want kingpin in a Spider-Man movie! You know, considering he was a Spidey villain way before Frank Miller stole him and made him way more awesome as a DD villain.
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Eh, I can see your point, but I think with Spidey's already huge rogues gallery and the current films focusing on cross-species/genetics angle, Kingpin wouldn't really fit the approach. I say let a DD movie or tv show have him, since he's DD's main antagonist (Bullseye qualifies too, but he's just a gun for hire, Kingpin is the one pulling the strings). Spider-Man's got his direct antagonists like Green Goblin (which could fit the cross species thing well if they take a similar approach to the Ultimate origin of the character, albeit with a different look), or the animal based villains like Rhino, Vulture, etc (though admittedly it'd be hard to take them seriously unless approached carefully). Doc Ock is also another main Spidey villain, and that could also work in the cross species approach. Again, though, does this mean he'd have actual octopus arms (stupid) or mechanical arms (stupid, but acceptable in comic book terms)?
 
Whenever I hear someone suggest a superhero should be "adult" (Waid says DD should have an "adult TV show") I cringe because all it means is, "I didn't learn anything from 1986-1998".

I'm sure he means "sophisticated" or "dark" much like THE DARK KNIGHT or WATCHMEN, but sophistication can exist in a series pushed at young teens and kids entering their double-digits, just as HARRY POTTER and Pixar prove. But with I think the sole exception of the Punisher who isn't a superhero unless you think "skull on chest = superhero" there isn't a character in Marvel or DC's stable that became popular by being "adult", nor survived the transition to "adult", because it is a profoundly stupid idea. The comics industry crashed and the thought that people still think that we should legitimize superheroes by distorting them into adult crime dramas is disheartening and artistically bankrupt. Write your own damn crime drama if you want one so bad, don't co-opt an existing intellectual property and ride its coattails.
 
I think you're overanalyzing it, Bass. I'm not sure about Waid's particular views, but I'd surely like to see a DD series. Granted, it'd explore more "adult" themes through both the legal drama court room proceedings and the street level crime and violence, but I don't think it's necessary or even right to alter the concept and foundations of the source material to make it "gritty" or "dark" (there's enough of that already in DD). I also like the idea of combining established genres (legal, police procedural, and super-heroes/vigilantes) into an hour long weekly series, as long as it comes off well.

Personally I think a DD show related to the MCU movies would be great fun, and possibly serve as an avenue to introducing other Marvel street-level characters like Punisher, Blade, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Misty Knight, etc. On an occasional basis, mind you, as this should be a DD show first and foremost, not Marvel Team-Up labeled as DD. It'd also be a great testing ground for Marvel Studios to gauge the fan interest in these characters and their viability for possible MCU films of their own.

I'm not a writer, producer, or showrunner and only moderately familiar with DD and his supporting characters, so I can't necessarily pin down a specific approach on the tone, approach, or direction it should take. I think part of my problem is I'm viewing it as a theoretical cog in the MCU machine instead of viewing it strictly as it's own animal which may or may not fit into the bigger picture.

In terms of co-opting it, I get your point, and agree artistic merit should come first, but as a realist I also recognize that studios are trying to approach and hook as large an audience as possible. If that means giving in to the more cynical, less intelligent approaches to telling these stories in an attempt to get that larger audience, it's a shame but I understand it.

I disagree with your summation that making "superhero" books more adult is intellectually bankrupt, though. I hate to drink from the Watchmen or Miracleman well once again, but I'd argue those are the best examples of superhero books aimed at older readers who took a somewhat more realistic, deconstructionist approach and succeeded beyond measure. Granted, just about every writer since has tried and failed to reach those same heights of comic genius, but I don't think pigeon-holing and specifically labeling different books into rigid genres and sub-genres is the way to go (including their various adaptations). Inevitably that'll stagnate creativity, imagination, and original story-telling, just as less talented writers trying to ape Moore has done. Same result, different avenues.
 
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DIrishB said:
I disagree with your summation that making "superhero" books more adult is intellectually bankrupt, though. I hate to drink from the Watchmen or Miracleman well once again, but I'd argue those are the best examples of superhero books aimed at older readers who took a somewhat more realistic, deconstructionist approach and succeeded beyond measure. Granted, just about every writer since has tried and failed to reach those same heights of comic genius, but I don't think pigeon-holing and specifically labeling different books into rigid genres and sub-genres is the way to go (including their various adaptations). Inevitably that'll stagnate creativity, imagination, and original story-telling, just as less talented writers trying to ape Moore has done. Same result, different avenues.
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I didn't say it was intellectually bankrupt, but artistically.

You've merged my two points, so let me separate.

One point was that trying to make a character "adult" is inappropriate and against their "type". This was not what I was referring to as artistically bankrupt, rather just misguided and foolish as it doesn't work and hasn't worked. The only successful examples of "adult" superheroes exist weren't adapted to adulthood but utterly reinvented. Nothing of the real MARVELMAN is in Alan Moore's except similar names and images. Same for WATCHMEN. But this is fundamentally different to say, trying to make Daredevil "adult" while keeping him the same. Sophistication and a serious tone is different to "adult", but while one could say its just shorthand for such a serious, sophisticated tone, I think it's the shorthand term that ends up causing the very creative decisions that make it unsophisticated and absurd.

The second point, the one I said was artistically bankrupt, is the truer reason for why people want to make "adult" versions: they are lazy. They want to do a more serious crime story but don't have the desire or talent to actually create a new world to write in, so they co-opt another world to write in. I indict this as artistically bankrupt because it is. That's not to say all reinventions and adaptations are bankrupt, rather that if your desire is to take an intellectual property and reinvent it, it must to be express something unique to that property and not just to try to push it into a new market or era.
 
"The grimness is just absurd. It's 'how do we out-grim each other, how do we out-violence each other.' Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended because I want comics to be like they were when I was a kid. I don't care. I don't want comics to be like they were when I was a kid because I still have my comics. If I need that I'll go look at those. What I need is for comics to not cheapen out and just do what they think a bunch of bloodthirsty 15-year-old fans want. Stop trying to gross us out with blood and violence. It's just cheap. It's bad storytelling. I'm not offended on a moral or ethical level, I'm just offended on a creativity level. There are other ways to create tension and drama than to have somebody stabbed through the back with a sword."
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-Mark Waid

A pretty relevant quote from Mark Waid.
 
That's kind of a weird quote. Was it made specifically in relation to Daredevil? DD comics have, over the last number of years, been darker and grittier but I have never seen any kind of gross-out factor. It's been a lot of tragedy bouncing off of street-level superheroics. When you tell those stories, I think they almost naturally take that tone.

I'm not sure what his quote is specifically in reference to.
 
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