Daredevil series discussion (spoilers)

[Gemini]

BP is literally taking over for DD, he's not expanding anything (he's completely lost Wakanda btw), it's a complete character transplant. He's not actually going to be DD but he may as well be. There is no real logic or anything for this move, it's just happening, I'm sure it'll be a perfectly serviceable book but there is literally no reason for any of this to happen.

 

[E]

im gonna have to disagree with ya E, I think the books semi-ending worked out pretty well. this isn't the 1st time Matt has left N.Y. after things have gone array.

I don't believe that just because the precedent has already set it means things "worked out pretty well".

Black Panther isn't taking up the mantel of DD (as far as i know), just the expanding his territory.....sort'a like mob boss expanding his criminal empire.

It doesn't matter if he's not calling himself Daredevil. He's completely taking his place.

 

[Random]

It doesn't matter if he's not calling himself Daredevil. He's completely taking his place.

Yeah the problem is why the hell does Black Panther gives a rat's ass about Hell's Kitchen, just no reason. If he was just looking for something to do why not just join up with the Avengers again?

 

[E]

Yeah the problem is why the hell does Black Panther gives a rat's ass about Hell's Kitchen, just no reason. If he was just looking for something to do why not just join up with the Avengers again?

That, too.

 

[nigma]

I don't believe that just because the precedent has already set it means things "worked out pretty well".

Then how were you expecting it to end? no matter how i look it at it, there was no pretty way to end it. i'll take what im given.

and for BP taking over HK.... i don't know why he's done it, guess we'll figure that out....... did you want the Sentry taking over HK instead or Danny taking the mantel up again?

 

[E]

and for BP taking over HK.... i don't know why he's done it, guess we'll figure that out....... did you want the Sentry taking over HK instead or Danny taking the mantel up again?

Depends at which point you're talking about. I didn't "want" any of it because this is not the same book as it was when Bendis or Brubaker were writing it. I can't really describe it but it didn't read like a superhero book. A lot of times the superheroics were completely incidental - all of the interesting stuff was happening to Matt Murdock, not Daredevil. And as for the superhero stuff, this is a "street" book. There's a level of realism involved, and building a giant whatever-Shadowland-is-supposed-to-be in the middle of NYC is not that. It's a supremely stupid plot.

If you mean to ask who would I rather see take DD's place while he's out, like I said, I prefer no one else. Cancel the book if you're out of ideas. But if it HAS TO BE someone, I'd much rather see Danny or even Luke or Shang-Chi - choices that make sense. Black Panther doesn't make sense; it is change for the sake of change. It's the "throw crap against the wall and see what sticks" method, which is stupid.

I'm not sure what you mean by Sentry taking over HK. Sentry has been a horrible character for a long time (basically since early New Avengers) and him having anything to do with Daredevil makes about as much sense as Black Panther.

 

[nigma]

Depends at which point you're talking about. I didn't "want" any of it because this is not the same book as it was when Bendis or Brubaker were writing it. I can't really describe it but it didn't read like a superhero book.

how we all miss the glory days of a books run, before someone messes it up *cough*runaways*cough*

A lot of times the superheroics were completely incidental - all of the interesting stuff was happening to Matt Murdock, not Daredevil. And as for the superhero stuff, this is a "street" book. There's a level of realism involved, and building a giant whatever-Shadowland-is-supposed-to-be in the middle of NYC is not that. It's a supremely stupid plot.

couldn't agree more, but higher up on the food chain you know someone was thinking "how do we sell more issues?"

If you mean to ask who would I rather see take DD's place while he's out, like I said, I prefer no one else. Cancel the book if you're out of ideas. But if it HAS TO BE someone, I'd much rather see Danny or even Luke or Shang-Chi - choices that make sense. Black Panther doesn't make sense; it is change for the sake of change. It's the "throw crap against the wall and see what sticks" method, which is stupid.

.
I think the choice works. BP has always been a protector of his people. always down on the ground fighting everyday things that's sort'a what I like about him. Matt has always had the same approach. BP like Matt ****ed over alot of people when BP get rid all the Vibranium and when Matt built his Shadowland. In some way I think their both looking for penance.

how about we agree to disagree on the BP issue until after the 1st few new issues

I'm not sure what you mean by Sentry taking over HK. Sentry has been a horrible character for a long time (basically since early New Avengers) and him having anything to do with Daredevil makes about as much sense as Black Panther.

I remember how much you just LOVE the Sentry

 

[E]

couldn't agree more, but higher up on the food chain you know someone was thinking "how do we sell more issues?"

Always the driving force behind any decision, but I have to question the intelligence of increasing sales on Daredevil by turning it into Black Panther. If people wanted to buy a Black Panther book there would be a Black Panther ongoing.

I think the choice works. BP has always been a protector of his people. always down on the ground fighting everyday things that's sort'a what I like about him. Matt has always had the same approach. BP like Matt ****ed over alot of people when BP get rid all the Vibranium and when Matt built his Shadowland. In some way I think their both looking for penance.

Yeah, but by those standards there are a LOT of heroes who could be called "protector of his people". I don't think that's enough qualification.

how about we agree to disagree on the BP issue until after the 1st few new issues

I usually will give just about anything a chance, but I can't get behind this. I don't think I'll bother with it.

I remember how much you just LOVE the Sentry

As a concept (which I sort of gave up on once I realized he's a huge Miracleman ripoff), yes. And the first mini was great. After that, not so much. I HATED the second mini and while he started off OK in New Avengers, it didn't take long before Bendis completely destroyed the character.

 

[Zombipanda]

Always the driving force behind any decision, but I have to question the intelligence of increasing sales on Daredevil by turning it into Black Panther. If people wanted to buy a Black Panther book there would be a Black Panther ongoing.

They're trying the same tact they took with Incredible Hercules, and it worked there. But then, Herc was a great book. The jury's still out on Black Panther.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really question the motive behind the stunt with Daredevil. I liked Bendis' Daredevil and loved Bru's, but a character can only death spiral so long before he has nowhere lower left to sink. The book just got darker and darker until it was pitch black. So they figure they need to retool the character some. Fair enough. The way they went about it is questionable but I'm still cautiously curious to see what Diggle's new spin is, following this miniseries he's putting out.

Maybe he'll become the new champion of Wakanda, get a whole foreign exchange program thing going on.

 

[E]

To be perfectly honest, I don't really question the motive behind the stunt with Daredevil. I liked Bendis' Daredevil and loved Bru's, but a character can only death spiral so long before he has nowhere lower left to sink.

I thought about that a lot during Bendis's run. What happens when you're so far down you can't go any further?

But the answer is not to replace him with a character that can't carry his own book.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Dthis is not the same book as it was when Bendis or Brubaker were writing it. I can't really describe it but it didn't read like a superhero book. A lot of times the superheroics were completely incidental - all of the interesting stuff was happening to Matt Murdock, not Daredevil. And as for the superhero stuff, this is a "street" book. There's a level of realism involved, and building a giant whatever-Shadowland-is-supposed-to-be in the middle of NYC is not that. It's a supremely stupid plot.

I haven't read almost any DD in the past ten years (I did read Kevin Smith's run and maybe a handful of other arcs). But I've read everything from 1979-1991 (Frank Miller-Ann Nocenti). When DD was fighting crime, there was a lot of gritty realism to it, but there were also a LOT of issues that weren't realistic at all. Every time he faces the Hand or has dealings with Stick, it gets very surreal and occultish. He even has dealings with Mephisto and Blackheart on several occasions (Blackheart's first appearance was actual DD #270). So straying from the realistic isn't new to DD.

That being said, just because there is a precedent, doesn't mean it's a good idea to revisit that side of things, and as I've said I haven't read Shadowland or any of the stuff leading up to it.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really question the motive behind the stunt with Daredevil. I liked Bendis' Daredevil and loved Bru's, but a character can only death spiral so long before he has nowhere lower left to sink. The book just got darker and darker until it was pitch black. So they figure they need to retool the character some.

DD seems to be the most interesting to read when Matt Murdock's life is falling apart. It's been that way since the early 80s. But again, after a while you have to let him come up for air and reconstruct him before you start destroying his life again. DD's taken breaks from Hell's Kitchen before.

I thought about that a lot during Bendis's run. What happens when you're so far down you can't go any further?

But the answer is not to replace him with a character that can't carry his own book.

but that's true too.

 

[The Overlord]

So what does everyone think of Mark Waid's run on Daredevil so far?

 

[E]

So what does everyone think of Mark Waid's run on Daredevil so far?

I really like it. It's a nice change of pace, even though I had no problem at all with the previous pace. They did it without it being boring. Also, the art is great. It reads and looks like early Daredevil.

 

[ProjectX2]

It is brilliant.

 

[Iceshadow]

I love it. One of Marvel's best books right now.

 

[The Overlord]

Also, just for fun, what characters would you like to see appear in Daredevil in the future (villains, heroes, old supporting cast members) and are there any plot threads that should be picked up on?

I wouldn't mind see Becky Blake appear again, Matt and her did not part under the best circumstances and it would be interesting to see her either mend fences with Murdock or become a legal rival to him. Frankly I think Matt could use a reoccurring lawyer to face off against in court.

Also I think Matt should settle accounts with Mr. Fear, sooner or later.

 

[Dancanread]

I love it. One of Marvel's best books right now.

Seconded. Mark Waid is killing it.

 

[Friday]

So what does everyone think of Mark Waid's run on Daredevil so far?

I got the first issue and that was it. I'm tired of punishing myself by buying Daredevil, and thats exactly what I've been doing since Brubaker left the book. Shadowland was a total cluster**** and Waids first issue didn't sell me on coming back.

Maybe, MAYBE, I'll check out a trade somewhere down the line.

Maybe.

 

[E]

I got the first issue and that was it. I'm tired of punishing myself by buying Daredevil, and thats exactly what I've been doing since Brubaker left the book. Shadowland was a total cluster**** and Waids first issue didn't sell me on coming back.

REALLY? Wow.

Shadowland was complete garbage but even 3 or 4 issues in, Waid has taken this book in a complete 180. It could not be more different.

 

[Friday]

REALLY? Wow.

Shadowland was complete garbage but even 3 or 4 issues in, Waid has taken this book in a complete 180. It could not be more different.

Like I said, I only got issue #1, but it didn't do anything for me. The art was very pretty, but I just didn't care about the plot. I think I've finally broken it off with DD and I'd rather it be a clean break.

I...I don't want to talk about it any more. :cry: