Lost *spoilers*

Re: New Bram/Illana theory

Goodwill said:
You're forgetting the DI. I think that's the group that's trying to make a play for the island now.
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that actually would be a good storyline for next season, i remember in the DHARMA booth video Pierre Chang did mention, i think, i don't remember the exact words, that the DHARMA Initiative needed to make a comeback i guess you could say, i still think Bram and Illana are working with Eloise, but i dunno 'bout Caesar... i don't think he's trying anything for DHARMA... we'll see, he better not be dead, he's kinda my favorite new character i guess, i heard he might be brought on as a main cast member, along with Illana

p.s. Season five two-hour finale is "The Incident" :)
 
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Re: New Bram/Illana theory

Random said:
They already provided how he gets out of jail, Ben's lawyer. the question of why he goes on the flight will be answered, just as Sayid's and Kate's was.
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yeah, i realize that, but they're not just gonna show him getting arrested and then have a lawyer say "don't worry, he'll be cleared of charges by tomorrow!" and then leave it at that, they'll show him in court or being released from custody or at least Hurley will have a line to the effect of "Some lawyer dude brought all this evidence...and..well, they let me go."

DIrishB said:
Also, I'd read that Faraday's father is Widmore (and his mother Eloise Hawking as revealed)...making he and Penny half-siblings...or maybe full siblings? I can't remember if Penny's "mother" was ever mentioned or shown.
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she was mentioned,

T_Montalbano said:
this is unlikely. if you saw the recent Ben-centric episode "Dead Is Dead," in one of the flashbacks Ben mentioned one of the reasons Charles was being banished from the island was because he fathered a child with an outsider. my theory is that Ellie from the episode "Jughead" is a young Eloise Hawking, therefore she wouldn't be an outsider
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exactly, but i don't think this needs to be spoilered

T_Montalbano said:
now there seem to be three major "players" in the Lost storyline:
1. Richard Alpert (Benjamin Linus could count, but i'm talkin' like the original players)
2. Charles Widmore
3. Eloise Hawking (if she was in fact called "Ellie" when she was younger)

all three seemed to have some type of leadership role amongst the indigenous people of the island

now my theory is that since Bram said in the flashback/flashforward (however you wanna look at it) of the Miles-centric episode "Some Like It Hoth" that he is against Charles Widmore, and i kinda doubt he'd be working for Richard/Benjamin, he seems like he's working for a third party... maybe Eloise Hawking. which would definitely explain why Bram was on the same flight the Oceanic Six were on, Ajira Airways Flight 316. which would also explain why Illana REALLY caught Sayid, she is working for Eloise too, just to get all of the Oceanic Six onboard that flight, but we all know Bram and Illana are up to something else on the island, something to do with the statue

i'm still tryin' to figure out what Caesar's motives are... hopefully he didn't die when Ben shot him, my best guess is he's either workin' for Charles Widmore and no one knows, or he is also working for Eloise, but he has something else planned for himself, or a double agent... hence why he didn't mention the shotgun to Illana... it's kinda interesting how he seemed like he had to hide it from Illana, and now that Illana (and Bram) have guns, they're taking over and callin' the shot... interesting... this is just comin' as i keep typin' haha
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well he did get shot in the chest with a shotgun from a few feet away, but you never know.

Goodwill said:
You're forgetting the DI. I think that's the group that's trying to make a play for the island now.
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good call! I bet you're right. Maybe when Ben and Widmore both say to Locke that he needs to get back to the island b/c there is a war coming and he needs to make sure the right side wins, they are both talking about the same side. They're both playing for the same team, they just hate each other.
 
T_Montalbano said:
this is unlikely. if you saw the recent Ben-centric episode "Dead Is Dead," in one of the flashbacks Ben mentioned one of the reasons Charles was being banished from the island was because he fathered a child with an outsider. my theory is that Ellie from the episode "Jughead" is a young Eloise Hawking, therefore she wouldn't be an outsider
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Exactly. Daniel's mother is Eloise, Penny's is a woman from the outside world. There would be no problem with Charles knocking up Eloise with Daniel since they're both Others...but the problem arose when he knocked up Penny's mom.

You do see where I'm going with this, don't you?
 
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DIrishB said:
Exactly. Daniel's mother is Eloise, Penny's is a woman from the outside world. There would be no problem with Charles knocking up Eloise with Daniel since they're both Others...but the problem arose when he knocked up Penny's mom.

You do see where I'm going with this, don't you?
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yeah, i see where you're going but you originally said maybe they were full siblings and that you couldn't remember if Penny's mom had ever been mentioned.

Here, I'll prove it:
DIrishB said:
Also, I'd read that Faraday's father is Widmore (and his mother Eloise Hawking as revealed)...making he and Penny half-siblings...or maybe full siblings? I can't remember if Penny's "mother" was ever mentioned or shown.
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and we're saying they can't be full siblings b/c if Daniel's Mom is Eloise Hawking and Penny's mom is not from the island, then they must be different women. That's all.
 
captaincanuck65 said:
yeah, i see where you're going but you originally said maybe they were full siblings and that you couldn't remember if Penny's mom had ever been mentioned.

Here, I'll prove it:
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I actually said it made them half-siblings, and maybe full siblings. Stop making me resort to semantics. ;)


and we're saying they can't be full siblings b/c if Daniel's Mom is Eloise Hawking and Penny's mom is not from the island, then they must be different women. That's all.
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Thats what I was saying as well...I just couldn't remember mention of Penny's mom. Thats all.
 
exactly, but i don't think this needs to be spoilered
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i didn't spoiler it

DIrishB said:
Exactly. Daniel's mother is Eloise, Penny's is a woman from the outside world. There would be no problem with Charles knocking up Eloise with Daniel since they're both Others...but the problem arose when he knocked up Penny's mom.

You do see where I'm going with this, don't you?
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i get you now, but some also believe that Charles and Eloise are
brother and sister

some people think that Jack is Jacob mostly 'cause Christian is able to speak for him and Claire was in the cabin with Christian at the time. i dunno if Jack could be Jacob, Jack was only brought back to 1977 when in 1954 John mentioned that Jacob had sent him to Richard and Richard seemed to know who he was talking about, you see what i'm gettin' at?

if Jacob already existed in 1954, Jack had to have been brought further back in time to become "Jacob," but then there's the theory that Jack does become Jacob sometime in or after 1977 and Jacob is able to be or see anywhere at any time on the island... but like i said, i dunno

i'm leanin' towards Jacob being the captain or someone from The Black Rock, but i also believe that someone from the Black Rock has maybe a family connection to one of the characters, we'll see...

i'm still waitin' for Elizabeth's past to be revealed, i actually thought Dave (Hugo's "imaginary" friend) was her dead husband who she mentioned to Desmond as "David," but i believe Carlton and Damon told the fans that they weren't the same person, but i still kinda thought the theory could be true

1. Hugo fell in love with Elizabeth
2. "Dave" might've known this would happen so he "appeared" to Hugo encouraging him to eat food all the time to stay fat, thinkin' Hugo wouldn't be appealin' to Elizabeth that way
3. Dave made Hugo believe that the island was his imagination as well and almost talked him into killing himself, maybe just so he would stay away from Elizabeth
 
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Re: New Bram/Illana theory

T_Montalbano said:
i didn't spoiler it
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Yes, you did. I edited one of your posts because it had a spoiler in it but I haven't touched any of the others.

And relax a bit on the posting, okay?
 
Recent Lostpedia interview with Cuse and Lindelof (Libby's missing past)

Alex: One mystery that you said a month ago, in a Sky One interview, you were not going to show us is basically Libby's backstory, yet two seasons ago you basically said there was one significant missing piece from her story which is how she got from Desmond to the mental institution, and you also added that to know that answer, you had to show her story through another character's flashback. So, now that you've said that her story is done on the show, can you now tell us her missing piece and which character would you have told it through?

Carlton: Uhh, you know, again, these are not questions that we are going to answer. I think the point we were trying to make with the Libby story is that everything is graded in terms of importance for us, and, as we are doing the last season of the show, it's not going to be sort of a didactic, you know, here's a list of a thousand questions that we're going to answer. That would not make for a very entertaining show. We are focusing on what we consider to be the significant questions, and mysteries, and character relationships. That's the story that we're gonna tell. I think that the reference to Libby was more illustrative of the fact that I think, we accept the fact that in the end of the day there will, probably, you could ask a spectrum of a thousand different fans "Well what question did you not get answered?" and there might be a thousand different answers, but we are focusing on what we consider to be the main questions of the show and the main narritive. It's impossible to tie up every loose end, and we don't really consider, honestly, Libby's story is incredibly tangential to the principle action on the show. For us, the focus of the final season really has to be on the main characters and what would generally be acknowledged as the most significant mysteries.

i'm kinda disturbed by this, but then again i guess there's gonna be a lot of stuff that'll never be answered
 
Great episode last night. (again) It was nice to get another Farady centric episode. His mother is quite the b*tch. However it still remains to be seen just what team Ellie is playing for.

I loved when Sawyer called Faraday "twitchy". His nicknames for people never get old. I also like the new "take it on faith" Jack.

And is Radzinsky a tool or what? He really really needs to have his a** kicked.

It will also be interesting to see if Faraday gave little Charlotte the same message this time as he did the first time.

All in all, I get the feeling it is going to be a looooong summer waiting for the final season to begin.
 
I like that this episode sets up the rest of the season. I like that Daniel turned the "whatever happened, happened" rule on its head... And in an original way. But there are a couple things I don't get about this. I'm sure they'll be addressed within the next three hours of the season (or maybe not)... Anyway, my questions are 1.) At first Dan is telling us that they are not supposed to be in the past. His goal at that point was to get them to return to 2008, right? AND 2.) With the knowledge that Jack and company are in the past now, Faraday now changes his motives because he understands that he's able to? AND FINALLY, 3.) What would it mean for the Jack, Kate, etc. characters that we know that are left on the island if they are successful at changing time? Would they stay on the island and be a part of its history throughout the time they've corrected or what? Are you understanding my questions? I hope.

Also, is Hawking blaming Dan because he was the catalyst in all of this to happen in the first place? That seems like a bit of a stretch... Not that it was out of character for Hawking to say that. I just thought it was odd. Really, that line was in there to drum up the idea that Ben might be her son... But it's not the case.

Jack in action again was cool and so was the fact that our main cast was all finally interacting again. I got exciting seeing all of our favorite characters up against a wall of sorts... And the idea of beginning at square one is alluding to season six. Or at least I'm hoping.

Lastly, I just want to express my outrage at the offing of Daniel, too. It was so poorly executed. I don't like when Lost does the gunshot off camera bit. I think what they're doing is trying to make it more shocking, but it just comes off as stupid. It was the same for Danielle and Karl. We get this cool episode drumming up how smart Daniel is and how good he is with numbers, but what else did he do with his smarts besides be the person to explain to Jack what was what? His importance should have been emphasized a bit more if he's got so many people jumping down his throat and hoping he'll do this or that. I just wanted him to be around a little more to see him fleshed out into a useful character... Because that's what they were building him up to be.
 
Lastly, I just want to express my outrage at the offing of Daniel, too. It was so poorly executed. I don't like when Lost does the gunshot off camera bit. I think what they're doing is trying to make it more shocking, but it just comes off as stupid. It was the same for Danielle and Karl. We get this cool episode drumming up how smart Daniel is and how good he is with numbers, but what else did he do with his smarts besides be the person to explain to Jack what was what? His importance should have been emphasized a bit more if he's got so many people jumping down his throat and hoping he'll do this or that. I just wanted him to be around a little more to see him fleshed out into a useful character... Because that's what they were building him up to be.
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The way I saw it, Daniel's brilliant with numbers, but he's never ever been proficient with anything else, especially interpersonal skills. Take, for instance, when Radzinsky saw him. Dan didn't try to hide his gun. It's just not something he really considers.

For Dan, Time is of the essence, and he probably concluded that holding a gun to Richard Alpert was the fastest way to the bomb.

I miss him too. He was one of my favorite characters. But he was also bat**** insane and, in the end, I don't think his theory on variables is nearly as all-encompassing as he thinks it is. I'm pretty sure we've seen the extent to which a Variable can effect the time stream (Desmond and Charlie through season 3) but in the end, the universe will course correct, and there WILL be an incident.
 
This episode could have been better. I mean there were great parts, but a lot of things just fell flat. Also the reveal of his father was lame, it just seemed forced
 
I didn't like his death either. Seriously, he's the son of two of the most important characters in the mythology of the show, and they couldn't think of anything better to do with him than a lame shock-value killing? It doesn't help that his character was completely mis-handled for this half of season; seriously, they dumped him, and came up with some off-hand "oh he was out doing research" explanation (which actually doesn't explain anything; why did Sawyer have that "mysterious" look whenever he was asked what happened to him?), brought him back for one episode, and killed him.

I hope he's not dead. I really do. Because he was easily the most interesting of the Freighter Folk, and there's really so much more you can do with the character whose forte is time travel during the Time Travel Season than just dump him.

And is it me, or did they never explain that "if something goes wrong, Desmond will be my constant" thing in his note book? I'm seriously asking, I have no recollection if that was ever addressed.
 
Well, I'll say this...

Jack's nearness to Dan is convenient. And if they can heal Ben, whose gunshot wound was a direct hit to his heart, by bringing him into the temple, they can do the same for Dan, too. I don't see why not. Unless he isn't special enough... Although I do believe the bastard son of Eloise and Charles Widmore should've gotten a larger role. I wish that that could've been developed a bit last season, and I bet they would've had the writer's strike not occured.
 
okay, but here's the thing:

He hasn't convinced Pierre Chang to get the people off the island yet. So that video from comic con of him filming Pierre hasn't happened yet, so Daniel must come back at some point. Maybe they save him, maybe he does some time crazy thing, but I don't see how Dan can be finished.
 
I think Faraday will come back in some form... hopefully. He is too good of a character not to return. :(

I have lots of stuff going through my mind but it's so hard to discuss and speculate with Lost now. I'm just enjoying the ride.
 
Jack's nearness to Dan is convenient. And if they can heal Ben, whose gunshot wound was a direct hit to his heart, by bringing him into the temple, they can do the same for Dan, too. I don't see why not. Unless he isn't special enough... Although I do believe the bastard son of Eloise and Charles Widmore should've gotten a larger role. I wish that that could've been developed a bit last season, and I bet they would've had the writer's strike not occured.
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Ben was healed because Richard knew he was special. He could see the ghost of his dead mother- there was already a connection between himself and the island. There's no such connection with Daniel. Also, Dan's dead. Ben wasn't (and it wasn't a shot to the heart, the camera angle was flipped in He's Our You- something I hope they realize and fix for the eventual DVD).

He hasn't convinced Pierre Chang to get the people off the island yet. So that video from comic con of him filming Pierre hasn't happened yet, so Daniel must come back at some point. Maybe they save him, maybe he does some time crazy thing, but I don't see how Dan can be finished.
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That's not canonical. Damon and Carlton stated in the most recent Lostpedia interview that those previews are much more promotional than they are canonical.

I didn't like his death either. Seriously, he's the son of two of the most important characters in the mythology of the show, and they couldn't think of anything better to do with him than a lame shock-value killing? It doesn't help that his character was completely mis-handled for this half of season; seriously, they dumped him, and came up with some off-hand "oh he was out doing research" explanation (which actually doesn't explain anything; why did Sawyer have that "mysterious" look whenever he was asked what happened to him?), brought him back for one episode, and killed him.
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I'm sure he'll return in some fashion, but his death wasn't a lame shock value killing- it emphasized the danger inherent in ****ing around in the past and attempting to change things. His death, in the end, was 'fate' laughing in his face. Just because you don't like a death doesn't mean it's lame and solely for shock value.

I'm not sure why his off doing research is such a problem. It led to his deduction that humans were variables, which was something we didn't really need to see off camera.

Also, the entire episode was about the theme of Destiny vs. Free Will, which is encapsulated in Hawking's belief that she cannot do anything to prevent her son from dying at her hands.

Daniel Faraday has, like it or not, a complete circular character arc. I'll miss him greatly, but the episode was an intriguing, fantastic sendoff.
 
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