New X-Men by Grant Morrison - discussion [spoilers]

Bass

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Ok, so Xorn was Magneto.

I've looked through the issues, and some hints ("A man in an iron prison") I get, others, not so much. Morrison said that there was indeed hints in the 'widescreen' issue in which Xorn first appeared, but I can't find 'em.

Anyone want to share the hints with the rest of the group? :)
 

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Bass said:
Ok, so Xorn was Magneto.

I've looked through the issues, and some hints ("A man in an iron prison") I get, others, not so much. Morrison said that there was indeed hints in the 'widescreen' issue in which Xorn first appeared, but I can't find 'em.

Anyone want to share the hints with the rest of the group? :)
One of the biggest ones is that even Xorn had mutant healing powers, he never healed anyone except those who had the nanosentinels in their blood (which of course were metal). Any time it came time to heal someone he'd say something like "this is not what I was brought here for" or something like that.
 

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UltimateE said:
One of the biggest ones is that even Xorn had mutant healing powers, he never healed anyone except those who had the nanosentinels in their blood (which of course were metal). Any time it came time to heal someone he'd say something like "this is not what I was brought here for" or something like that.
That's right! He said that in an issue where Annie and Polaris were in the Med lab....I think it was there....But he definetly said "This is not what I was brought here for".
 

Caduceus

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Well Xorn II probably counts as a fairly substantial hint. "Xorneto" was originally the person known as Kuan Yin Xorn. His brother, Shen Xorn was Xorn II who showed up when someone pulled his helmet of creating a black hole in the middle of China. (This was all in the post-realoded arc of X-men) He explained a little about Kuan Yin Xorn but there were hints from those issues about an "evil residing at the Institute" (Which is like related to whats happening in Astonishing since that scene focused on Emma) but then he sucked the Brotherhood into his head (Including Nocturne :x ) and went off to "think about what he had done". This suggests to me at least that Xorn I was an actual person who's sense of identity was warped by the Kick he was using. However with everything thats happened witht he Scarlet Witch, I really think we'll have to wait till House of M to find out the way it all really happened.
 

Bass

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Buh.

No wonder I'm not picking up X-Men. It's like Psylocke and Cable all over again.

Morrison invented Xorn. Did they have to bring back a character that never existed?

Anyway, I'm interested in Xorn, not Xorn 2: The Blandening. :) Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh if I do.

Anyway, any more hints found in the pages of Morrison's New X-Men?
 

Patriot Mk2

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Caduceus said:
then he sucked the Brotherhood into his head (Including Nocturne :x ) and went off to "think about what he had done"
So are there any Xorn at the Institute now?
 

Caduceus

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Patriot said:
So are there any Xorn at the Institute now?
No, not at this time. He will no doubt return at some point but until then, its a Xorn free zone.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

TheManWithoutFear said:
Someone spoil me about Morrison's run and what was going on with this.
Xorn, who had recently joined the team and whose mutant power was healing people/things, healed Charles and had healed several other X-Men of a deadly nanosentinel infection in their bloodstream. Of course we found out later, in one of the greatest twists in comic book history, that Xorn was Magneto in disguise and was actually using the nanosentinels to hold his back upright so he could walk.
 

Bass

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

But in fact it turned out that it wasn't really Magneto pretending to be Xorn, because there was a REAL Xorn all along. But this Xorn-Magneto guy wasn't Xorn either but Xorn's EVIL TWIN BROTHER who...

Goddamit.

It makes sense if you read only Grant Morrison's run and pay attention to nothing that came after it.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

Bass said:
But in fact it turned out that it wasn't really Magneto pretending to be Xorn, because there was a REAL Xorn all along.
I don't know what you're talking about. That must have come from some sucky alternate Earth dimension that only you as nexus of the universe are privvy to.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

UltimateE said:
Xorn, who had recently joined the team and whose mutant power was healing people/things, healed Charles and had healed several other X-Men of a deadly nanosentinel infection in their bloodstream. Of course we found out later, in one of the greatest twists in comic book history, that Xorn was Magneto in disguise and was actually using the nanosentinels to hold his back upright so he could walk.
Wow, that actually sounds pretty cool.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

TheManWithoutFear said:
Wow, that actually sounds pretty cool.
The whole run is awesome. I can't recommend it enough.

New X-Men #114-154. Collected in 7 TPBs or 3 (I think) HCs.
 

ProjectX2

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

UltimateE said:
The whole run is awesome. I can't recommend it enough.

New X-Men #114-154. Collected in 7 TPBs or 3 (I think) HCs.
I liked most of it. Some of it sucked, but the majority was good. I didn't read any of the stuff that came after it though. I had to leave the X-Universe while I could. :D
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

ProjectX2 said:
I liked most of it. Some of it sucked, but the majority was good. I didn't read any of the stuff that came after it though. I had to leave the X-Universe while I could. :D
That's just the thing...it was good enough that I thought maybe X-books aren't that bad, and it didn't hurt that all of the X-books would be building off the events that happened during that run. Except that's not what happened, they totally ****ed it all up by changing what happened and watering it down.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

Bass said:
But in fact it turned out that it wasn't really Magneto pretending to be Xorn, because there was a REAL Xorn all along. But this Xorn-Magneto guy wasn't Xorn either but Xorn's EVIL TWIN BROTHER who...

Goddamit.

It makes sense if you read only Grant Morrison's run and pay attention to nothing that came after it.
But in actual fact it really was Magneto, but Scarlet Witch changed it so Magneto could come back and make it seem like it was an impostor!
 

Bass

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

TheManWithoutFear said:
Wow, that actually sounds pretty cool.
It's ****ing brilliant. Xorn appears in the fifth issue, and it pays off in the fifth issue at the end of the run. When it happened, I just stopped. And I had to go back and re-read the entire run. It blew me away.

Ultimate E said:
That's just the thing...it was good enough that I thought maybe X-books aren't that bad, and it didn't hurt that all of the X-books would be building off the events that happened during that run. Except that's not what happened, they totally ****ed it all up by changing what happened and watering it down.
It's ****ing terrible because all the things they're trying to do now Morrison already did extremely well. They brought him on to create a new X-Universe. He did that. Then they immediately undid it, then tried to do it again, but in a much worse way.

For example, Morrison starts his run by killing off the entire mutant nation of Genosha resulting in 16 million deaths (an astronomical percentage of the global mutant population) which the X-Men are unable to prevent. They attack those responsible, and seemingly dispose of them. It's these acts that spiral to form Morrison's entire run. This is the beginning of the story.

A couple of years later, Marvel decides to have a story which starts as the Avengers are besieged by all their old enemies, it then transpires that Scarlet Witch, for no reason, went crazy and become omnipotent and did all this. Then she creates an alternate world, and then decides, to eliminate all the non-marketable mutants and everyone is forced to watch and be unable to do anything, not that they had done anything prior to this. This is the entire story.

If you want to 'streamline' the mutants in the X-Universe and make them a minority again, there was your chance, solely within the X-Men title (where it has actual relevance as opposed to the Avengers) without relying on deus ex machina endings and overblown casts. Morrison did it, in his first issue, and it still resonated powerfully with meaning.

Morrison has Wolverine, who has started to remember parts of his earlier life, go off in a perilous search for his true identity and what the Weapon X programme was about. In a stunning flash of insight, Morrison explains Weapon X means "Weapon Ten" and we meet Weapon XIV (14), aka Fantomex. Fantomex leads Wolverine and Cyclops into the belly of the World Plus programme in which Wolverine finds out more about his origin and has to fight the insanely powerful Weapon XV (15). Wolverine not only uncovers some of his past, but also works out Xorn's true identity.

Marvel's new attempt - Wolverine finds out his origin at random, because they wanted to do a new Wolverine ongoing. Scarlet Witch eradicates "all" the mutants from the world and is so doing, gives Wolverine his memory back. For no reason. It just happens. There's no more satisfying an ending to an 8-issue "event" than, "It just happens".

Another example - Magneto, who died in Morrison's first issue during the attack on Genosha, returns and says, "I always come back. Haven't you noticed? I think it's my secondary mutation."

The "New" way - Magneto dies at the end of Morrison's run. Magneto comes back because the Magneto who died was actually an impersonator who was pretending to be his own twin brother pretending to be Magneto. Then, because this made no sense, Scarlet Witch, for no reason, apparently created the dead-pretending-pretender Magneto because she thought her father was dead. Magneto surviving his death in Morrison's first issue is now totally unexplained.

I want you to reread the above "New" way and realise the futile idiocy of the current quality since Morrison's departure. It's pathetic.
 

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Re: Walking Charles Xavier

Bass said:
It's ****ing brilliant. Xorn appears in the fifth issue, and it pays off in the fifth issue at the end of the run. When it happened, I just stopped. And I had to go back and re-read the entire run. It blew me away.



It's ****ing terrible because all the things they're trying to do now Morrison already did extremely well. They brought him on to create a new X-Universe. He did that. Then they immediately undid it, then tried to do it again, but in a much worse way.

For example, Morrison starts his run by killing off the entire mutant nation of Genosha resulting in 16 million deaths (an astronomical percentage of the global mutant population) which the X-Men are unable to prevent. They attack those responsible, and seemingly dispose of them. It's these acts that spiral to form Morrison's entire run. This is the beginning of the story.

A couple of years later, Marvel decides to have a story which starts as the Avengers are besieged by all their old enemies, it then transpires that Scarlet Witch, for no reason, went crazy and become omnipotent and did all this. Then she creates an alternate world, and then decides, to eliminate all the non-marketable mutants and everyone is forced to watch and be unable to do anything, not that they had done anything prior to this. This is the entire story.

If you want to 'streamline' the mutants in the X-Universe and make them a minority again, there was your chance, solely within the X-Men title (where it has actual relevance as opposed to the Avengers) without relying on deus ex machina endings and overblown casts. Morrison did it, in his first issue, and it still resonated powerfully with meaning.

Morrison has Wolverine, who has started to remember parts of his earlier life, go off in a perilous search for his true identity and what the Weapon X programme was about. In a stunning flash of insight, Morrison explains Weapon X means "Weapon Ten" and we meet Weapon XIV (14), aka Fantomex. Fantomex leads Wolverine and Cyclops into the belly of the World Plus programme in which Wolverine finds out more about his origin and has to fight the insanely powerful Weapon XV (15). Wolverine not only uncovers some of his past, but also works out Xorn's true identity.

Marvel's new attempt - Wolverine finds out his origin at random, because they wanted to do a new Wolverine ongoing. Scarlet Witch eradicates "all" the mutants from the world and is so doing, gives Wolverine his memory back. For no reason. It just happens. There's no more satisfying an ending to an 8-issue "event" than, "It just happens".

Another example - Magneto, who died in Morrison's first issue during the attack on Genosha, returns and says, "I always come back. Haven't you noticed? I think it's my secondary mutation."

The "New" way - Magneto dies at the end of Morrison's run. Magneto comes back because the Magneto who died was actually an impersonator who was pretending to be his own twin brother pretending to be Magneto. Then, because this made no sense, Scarlet Witch, for no reason, apparently created the dead-pretending-pretender Magneto because she thought her father was dead. Magneto surviving his death in Morrison's first issue is now totally unexplained.

I want you to reread the above "New" way and realise the futile idiocy of the current quality since Morrison's departure. It's pathetic.
:shock:

That was the most brilliant post in the history of EVAR.

Well said.
 

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Re: Xorn and clues to his true identity (spoilers)

Bass said:
Anyway, any more hints found in the pages of Morrison's New X-Men?
One of the hints in the widescreen annual was when he said, "I could have built heaven on Earth if only they had let me."

Later in the series Esme is leaving the Institute and she leaves in a car with no driver, after she had been ranting about something big that was about to happen.

Also, during the campout with Xorn and the special class, Xorn kills the U-Men by turning over a car on them, then eerily looks back at Angel, who had been watching, and puts his finger to his mouth as if to say "this is out little secret."

(merged some recent NXM talk with this older thread)
 

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