Punisher MAX [Aaron/Dillon] discussion (Spoilers!)

I don't get why all of that is a problem to begin with. They did the same thing with Alias - they integrated it well within the main universe but then decided that it was too integrated and they didn't want to pollute the kiddies' minds by having Spider-Man and Captain America in a MAX book.

I don't think there's any reason they can't. There's no reason to put Punisher in a separate "universe" in order to tell a good story.
 
Steve Dillion is a superb comic artist.

I read #11 and I'm pretty sure Bullseye says "I want a daughter". Any other guesses?
 
I just read the last two issues (reading #11 before #10 like an idiot) and I think he said "thank you." The death of his family gave Frank the chance to embrace death and fully become the Punisher.

This comic is great. I'm glad it's coming out again. Stupid Ultimate Avengers.
 
So I read #12.

I thought it sucked. Aaron's insights into Punisher's psyche only seek to make the character more shallow, rather than deeper, whilst also being something of a cliche. Not only that, but it's all on-the-nose voice-over narration and dialogue, characters saying exactly what they're thinking and feeling. It's awful stuff.

However, the prisoners' attempt on Punisher's life was brilliant, funny, and genuinely exciting. The terrible thing is, there is no need for the flashbacks. Frank just lying in the bed, with no voice-over, would've been brilliant because we would, like the criminals, be uncertain as to Frank's condition. Then when he yells "What are you waiting for?" it would've had a big effect, and Frank's self-loathing would've been apparent in how he interacts with the criminals. The flashbacks tell us stuff we already know. As soon as Bullseye told Frank what his last words to his wife were, we immediately got what kind of inner turmoil Frank was in, and it didn't need to be so overtly explained.

This issue could've been #13 as well. It's a shame. I hope the psychoanalysis stops soon, but I think it's going to continue for the entire arc, and if it does, I'll probably drop the title. I got what was going on in Frank's head within a page of flashbacks. I skimmed most of the issue since I knew it all because I have seen it before. And it's crappy. Aaron says that Frank is the Punisher (in part) because he is scared to live. Ennis, someone who seems to understand the psychology war, was much more honest and much darker. He very clearly expressed that Frank is the Punisher because he loves war.

The prisoners were great though.
 
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I just read #15 and it was a sudden, and complete turnaround for me.

The family stuff is now really brilliant and the cliffhanger of the issue is as good as any PUNISHER arc I can remember. I am genuinely excited about the next issue. Well done to Jason Aaron for pulling this off, and Steve Dillon for his storytelling skills. These two are really doing a great arc.

I just loved how genuinely tense I was, unsure what Frank in the past was going to do with the options he's been given, and just what the hell is going to happen in the next issue at the park. I assume that when the flashback happens of Frank losing his family will coincide with Frank deciding to fight and kill the prisoners. In other words, as the Punisher is born in the park, he'll be reborn in the prison. But it's all very exciting.

Yay!
 
That cliffhanger at the end of #15 is one of the greatest I've ever seen.
 
That cliffhanger at the end of #15 is one of the greatest I've ever seen.

Agreed. And I had to think about whether I liked the retcon (if you can call it that) regarding the picnic and what transpired in #16 but I decided it was pretty brilliant and adds a whole new meaning to Frank's guilt.

This is a great book right now - I just wish someone else was drawing it.
 
Steve Dillon drawing Preacher and Punisher is great. Steve Dillon drawing superheroes... not so much.
 
You are so bipolar.

you have no idea.

I thought the conclusion to FRANK was poor. The breakout undoes all the jeopardy of the arc, and the idea that Frank is now punishing people because of his own sense of guilt ruins the character. Garth Ennis gave great insight into Frank Castle: He understood that Frank loves war and hates himself for it, and hates himself for using his family as an excuse to never stop. Jason Aaron has replaced that with his own interpretation, which is fine, except I find it extremely less interesting as Frank is not using his family as an excuse, but as a punishment, which undercuts the idea that Aaron himself put into the story about Frank wanting to leave his family to work for Fury: that Castle loves war. It's just a tacked-on psychological gesture of guilt which makes no sense and only makes the Punisher a moping "woe-is-me" character.

I will re-read all of Aaron's arc to give it a fair, second go, and try to just "go with it" and not compare it to Ennis' run. If I cannot enjoy it, I will dump the title. Which would be a shame because some of Aaron's work, particularly #15, and Dillon's art, is very good.
 
Man, another great cliffhanger in #21. This is a really good book.

Frank is still having a ton of flashbacks as he works through the Kingpin's men, an kills Kingpin after Vanessa Fisk refuses to help him. And, oh yeah, Frank bit Kingpin's tongue off and stuck a hammer in his head. Some of it is over the top but this is Punisher. And it's a MAX book.

But the art is still killing it. Steve Dillon can not draw a convincing action sequence. Very frustrating.
 

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