Spider-Man Sins Past: brilliant or despicable? (spoilers, of course)

[E]

I was rereading Sins Past yesterday and reveling it it's brilliance (one of the few JMS AMS stories I've really liked), and I was wondering who else thought it was brilliant? Who hated it and thinks it's crap?

I loved it first of all because it was a compelling story that fits in perfectly within the confines of the old Death of Gwen Stacy story. It totally deconstructed a character but in a good way; without destroying her. It introduced 2 great new characters. It changed Peter in the worst way, as if he needed more problems. Toward the end where he tells Gwen he will always love her, and MJ thinks he's talking to her...heart wrenching.

What did you think of it?

 

[Doc Comic]

Despicable. Gwen would give it up to Norman without thinking twice, but she wouldn't do it with Peter even though they were dating for years? Just plain despicable.

 

[E]

Despicable. Gwen would give it up to Norman without thinking twice, but she wouldn't do it with Peter even though they were dating for years? Just plain despicable.

Not to imply that I think you're wrong, but just to offer this up: it was explained in the story. She was away, she had just been dumped by Peter...she was a little fruity. Plus, Norman had the whole Osborn magnetism going on. :heybaby:

I find that totally believable. You might not agree, but it's not like it was just pulled out of JMS's ***.

 

[compound]

I didn't vote because neither extreme -- "brilliant" or "despicable" -- accurately describes my indifference to the story.

I haven't been a fan of the Spider-Man books (in general) and 616 Gwen Stacy (as a character) to feel personally shocked by the revelations.

The fast-aging kids were really the only lame storytelling conceit in an otherwise interesting, well-plotted story. However, I just couldn't bring myself to be emotionally moved by it.

Here are some quotes excerpted from blogger Joe Rice of "Listen To Us, We're Right!", which neatly sum up my opinions of some of the controversial plot threads:

Marvel heroes got the crap beat out of them and they lived in bunkers and cramped apartments with their aunt. Peter Parker's story is better-suited to handle a blow like this story. Tragedy fits into his archetypal arc. His is a world where teenagers do dumb things and make mistakes, and then pay for them.

...

A powerful, charistmatic older man and an inexperienced teenager. Immoral? Yes. Unfortunate? Yes. But it's not rape. It's a mistake, and teenage girls make them all the time. It's a mistake that I'd not judge my female friends for making. A lot of the ire directed at Sins Past online seemed to come from guys who took it personally that "Gwen" "slept with" "Norman." By no means was this ALL the ire, but there was a heavy dose of "Dirty slut!" in the complaints. Again, a teenager screwing up and later trying to make up for it and dying makes sense in the world of Peter Parker.

...

I've not been nor am I yet a fan of anything else Straczynski has written. But he writes a damn charming Spider-Man, with a good three-act structure to his stories, plot development, sharp-but-not-overpowering dialogue, and a decent mix of drama and humor. I've NEVER liked Spider-Man before this, really, other than the requisite "I'm seven and Spider-Man looks awesome" stuff. Sins Past wasn't costant awfulness. Parker was still Parker and he'd still crack wise. Other things would happen.

...

Sins Past was solid comic storytelling that took a very unpopular turn. (Though I will freely admit that the panel focusing on Osborne's "O-face" was gross as hell and unnecessary. But I mostly chalk that up to art I already didn't like.)

And just to remind us of the awfulness that Deodato subjected us to...

I also found this helpful recap for those of you who may not remember the arc:

 

[E]

I haven't been a fan of the Spider-Man books (in general) and 616 Gwen Stacy (as a character) to feel personally shocked by the revelations.

Have you read the original "Death of Gwen Stacy" story? I would recommend it if you haven't. It was collected in TPB form sometime recently...I got mine through either my local shop or Amazon, don't remember which.

Some might consider it sacrelig to say this, but I don't care for most 60's/70's/80's superhero comics. The corny dialogue just ruins stories for me. I blame it more on the Comics Code than any of the creative teams, but nonetheless it's there. I don't not respect or appreciate the comics for what they accomplished, I just find a lot of them unreadable.

(I guess that's part of the appeal of the Ultimate line for me; good stories that aren't held back by corny dialogue).

This isn't the case (for me) with "Death of Gwen Stacy". It was incredibly moving, and although the dialogue isn't great, the story performs the rare feat of overcoming it. And it's not even as terrible as other comics from this era.

Definitely try it out if you ever get a chance.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Without reading it I'm gonna pull a GW and say that it's probably garbage. I read up on the characters through the handbooks. Gwen Stacey's clone's kids? No matter how you say that it sounds bad.

 

[E]

Gwen Stacey's clone's kids? No matter how you say that it sounds bad.

Yeah, you definitely sound like GW because you have no idea what you're talking about.

They weren't her clone's kids. They were the real Gwen's.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Yeah, you definitely sound like GW because you have no idea what you're talking about.

They weren't her clone's kids. They were the real Gwen's.

She died? And reincarnation sucks... there's no lesser of two evils there.

 

[E]

She died? And reincarnation sucks... there's no lesser of two evils there.

No one was reincarnated.

If you aren't going to read the book, don't try and discuss it.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

No one was reincarnated.

If you aren't going to read the book, don't try and discuss it.

I'll be back later. :twisted:

 

[E]

I'll be back later. :twisted:

Good.

 

[SeAcoW]

we just got it done here in DK, Can I ask how far behind we are? !

well, anyway, this was really great. I love that Norman is as evil as always. But that drawing of Norman getting .. ehm... puhhh.

 

[Pandrio]

we just got it done here in DK, Can I ask how far behind we are?

Well, let's see, there was a 4-part arc followed by a 6-part arc and the first AMS part of The Other since Sin's Past, so I would say about 11 months- a year behind. And Sin's Past was actually one of my first comics. I read up on the characters and found it quite enjoyable.

 

[SeAcoW]

Wow alot has voted despicable and I have no clue why. Come on, the best book in a long time guys.

 

[Ice]

I thought it was good. Its what got me into collecting Amazing Spider-Man. Don't see nothing terrible about it. It doesnt diminish Gwen's character at all, since at times like that, it happens all the time in real life.

Love the art. Deodato is great. Ourchair is just crazy, and doesnt know what he's talking about.

 

[Pandrio]

Ourchair is just crazy, and doesnt know what he's talking about.

Ourchair?:?

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I wish there was a more ambivalent choice...

It was okay.

 

[Ice]

Ourchair?:?

Yeah. He doesnt like Deodato. Was there someone else I missed?

 

[Pandrio]

Yeah. He doesnt like Deodato. Was there someone else I missed?

Well he didn't post anything in the thread and compound said something about Deodato

And just to remind us of the awfulness that Deodato subjected us to...

so I wasn't sure if you were talking about OurChair or not.

 

[Ice]

Oh, woops. You know how those guys looks alike.

But they both dont like him. Must've confused another post of Ourchair, as I coulda sworn I read him putting him down, too.