So, who is it? (Ultimates 2 #5 spoilers)

Who is the traitor?

  • Total voters
    58
Dr.Strangefate said:
Imagine two Ultron-level androids, and the Hulk, and then possibly Thor (if they freed him to fight Captain America) working together, They could beat the Ultimates a thousand times over... And utilize the Triskelion to apprehend power from all US Government organizations...

That'd be one heck of a fight scene.
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I would love that. Cap never loses no matter what. It would be great just to have his *** handed to him for once.
 
cap is the bad guy

I posted some thoughts in another thread but here goes:

first I think they there have been lots of clues to indicate that Cap is not happy with the government. read on:

Pym mentions that his fight with Cap was one of the reasons he was thrown out of the Ultimates. Cap started that fight. he probably figured it would be a good way to finally get Pym thrown out.

Cap is a soldier, and will follow orders. however, he must really be disappointed with what he sees now. Cap strikes me as the kind of solider that will fight you tooth and nail as they say however, if you surrender and/or make peace with him, I think he would honor those terms. given that, quantanamo Bay, preemptive strikes and perceived loss of civil liberties under Homeland security. well he's probably feed up.

lastly, on more than a few occasions Cap has voiced his displeasure at the way this government(I mean the Ultimate's world) has created monsters in an attempt to duplicate him. I think the Sinister Six mini, and somewhere else. Cap has not been a happy man for some time. I rest my case.
 
Rhyo said:
So, our new clues from issue #6



3. The speech pattern sounds female ("Oh, Hank"...) or at least somewhat feminine.
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I think the speech is meant to be sarcastic and mocking. Oh, Hank, as in you out of the loop dumb basta&&.
 
Ultimate Gambit said:
I doubt it could be Cap he doesn't like Pym and I could see it being Janet
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well, like the saying goes the enemy of my enemy is my friend. also, Pym seems surprised at who the traitor is. some of you would say that means his wife. but I say, of all the team members Cap would be the biggest surprise.
 
Let's find a median guys. It's not Captain America is the most OBVIOUS choice right now because in the comic Pym says something like oh, you're the least likely to be the traitor. That's through Pym's eyes, not ours. The dialogue of the traitor alone turned me off to the idea that it might be Captain America. He/she was so shady Captain wouldn't just be like that. In fact, if it was Cap than I'd imagine he'd be very confused about his own actions at this point. He's betraying the country he loves. It's not Captain.
 
Honestly, I think it is Cap, based on the line to the effect of "This country isn't what I believe in anymore". No one else on the team had ever believed in the ideal of America. Wasp and Giant Man were out to make themselves famous, Hawkeye and Widow are practicly soldiers for hire, Wanda and Pietro are simply out for political consessions, and Iron Man is just trying to help everyone. The only person it fits to me is Cap.

And I've finaly cast my vote.
 
Who Is IT?

Could it be Betty Ross? Certainly would account for Hank's surprise.
 
Baxter said:
Honestly, I think it is Cap, based on the line to the effect of "This country isn't what I believe in anymore". No one else on the team had ever believed in the ideal of America. Wasp and Giant Man were out to make themselves famous, Hawkeye and Widow are practicly soldiers for hire, Wanda and Pietro are simply out for political consessions, and Iron Man is just trying to help everyone. The only person it fits to me is Cap.

And I've finaly cast my vote.
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That depends on how you define "believing in America".

As an example: Widow was an ex-KGB agent who stopped taking orders from Moscow and switched allegiances to the US. You could very well say she stopped believing in the mother land, and saw a better life for herself in The Land of the Free. In a sense, that means she "believed in America" as a place of opportunity for such a career-oriented assassin like herself.
 
ourchair said:
That depends on how you define "believing in America".

As an example: Widow was an ex-KGB agent who stopped taking orders from Moscow and switched allegiances to the US. You could very well say she stopped believing in the mother land, and saw a better life for herself in The Land of the Free. In a sense, that means she "believed in America" as a place of opportunity for such a career-oriented assassin like herself.
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But you also need to take into account the personalities of the people involved. Captain America is the kind of person to see things in very ridgid terms. I belive in this. I don't belive in that. I've lost faith in this. The rest of the team is a bit more gray minded, and while you cn argue taht they believe or don't, they're not the sort of personalities to come out and say "I don't believe in this country" before they'd say something less final, like "I've got doubts about what we're doing.".
 
ranaj said:
Could it be Betty Ross? Certainly would account for Hank's surprise.
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And her complete emotional turnaround when Banner was executed, like maybe that was an unintended consequence and she felt guilty (I think someone else mentioned that before).

But - she's not a supersoldier. At least not that we know of.
 
Baxter said:
But you also need to take into account the personalities of the people involved. Captain America is the kind of person to see things in very ridgid terms. I belive in this. I don't belive in that. I've lost faith in this. The rest of the team is a bit more gray minded, and while you cn argue taht they believe or don't, they're not the sort of personalities to come out and say "I don't believe in this country" before they'd say something less final, like "I've got doubts about what we're doing.".
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Well to be honest, I'm really just trying to play devil's advocate here. I agree that Cap is a likely candidate, but I don't think "believing in America" automatically excludes most others.

I certainly consider gray personalities like Hawkeye less suspect, but I think Widow should be seen past her "commie slut" exterior. On the other hand, Millar hasn't really built her up as a character either, but that's just me playing devil's advocate with myself---which will only guarantee an endless series of circular arguments that could never fit into one post.
 
ourchair said:
Well to be honest, I'm really just trying to play devil's advocate here. I agree that Cap is a likely candidate, but I don't think "believing in America" automatically excludes most others.

I certainly consider gray personalities like Hawkeye less suspect, but I think Widow should be seen past her "commie slut" exterior. On the other hand, Millar hasn't really built her up as a character either, but that's just me playing devil's advocate with myself---which will only guarantee an endless series of circular arguments that could never fit into one post.
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Ifigured you were arguing for the sake of argument, but hey, I've got to defend my views. And I don't automaticaly exclude everyone for not "Believing in america", I just think that it puts alot more weight to the traitor being Cap.

....hehe, commie slut.
 
UltimateE said:
And her complete emotional turnaround when Banner was executed, like maybe that was an unintended consequence and she felt guilty (I think someone else mentioned that before).

But - she's not a supersoldier. At least not that we know of.
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One thing I think that has been overlooked is that while Loki states that a single individual was responsible for the Hulk leak, he follows up by saying "they're working for some friends of mine."

Which means that whoever released the Hulk info and whoever showed up to speak with Pym has a collaborator. Perhaps it's the two mutant terrorists? Or perhaps Tony and Natasha are co-traitors? Maybe Jan and Cap?

This is actually an angle that I think is much more difficult to explain. Who are Loki's friends and why is/are the traitor(s) working for them?
 
ourchair said:
One thing I think that has been overlooked is that while Loki states that a single individual was responsible for the Hulk leak, he follows up by saying "they're working for some friends of mine."

Which means that whoever released the Hulk info and whoever showed up to speak with Pym has a collaborator. Perhaps it's the two mutant terrorists? Or perhaps Tony and Natasha are co-traitors? Maybe Jan and Cap?

This is actually an angle that I think is much more difficult to explain. Who are Loki's friends and why is/are the traitor(s) working for them?
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What if it's Cap and Betty Ross? Cap deffinatly lacks the technical knowhow to leak any computer based such and such, but Betty would be able to get the information for him without any problem. Could be he's asked her for all the hulk info she had and dropped it press release stlye.... quit channeling Fight Club... And leaked it to the press. This would help explain her turnaround with Banners sentance, as well as make her an unintendend co-conspiritor.
 
Baxter said:
What if it's Cap and Betty Ross? Cap deffinatly lacks the technical knowhow to leak any computer based such and such, but Betty would be able to get the information for him without any problem. Could be he's asked her for all the hulk info she had and dropped it press release stlye.... quit channeling Fight Club... And leaked it to the press. This would help explain her turnaround with Banners sentance, as well as make her an unintendend co-conspiritor.
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I honestly think anything's possible. My schtick with Tony as traitor isn't because I think he has more evidence, but rather it's out of a preference for him filling that role. :D

Perhaps we should have a suspect's line up that knocks out all the motivations and possibilities, as thorough as Bass' manifesto and my Iron Man theory, but without the excessively in depth historical digging.
 
Here's the UltimateTM reason that Captain America is the traitor: Mark Miller loves Ultiamte Cap, and has said he can write his ******* out of time character forever. If thats the case then he's got to be the centerpiece of the arc.
 
Hitllar has stated that they have to work very hard to prevent any one of the Ultimates from dominating the book because they love each of them so much.
 
Who Is It? Betty, of course!

Don't forget that Betty Ross had access to all sensitive information about the Ultimates AND was the one to talk about Hank having beaten Jan while at college. A claim not varified by any other source. Indeed Betty seems to have made the claim simply tomotivate Cap into going after Hank.

Betty is one of the traitors.
 
There's one reason I eliminate captain america from being the black gloved traitor. He wouldn't be talking to pym so casually. And the suit in the bedroom wouldn't help pym's case too much either.
 
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