The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

Man, I finally got a crew together to see this.

It's just too good. Densely packed, thick with themes, so many little things fitted into it. In short, it's a more complex and well-directed comic book movie than all the other superhero fare put together. And it's amazing in that it's an entirely different film from its predecessor while still feeling like a natural evolution. I feel like it's the first comic book film to really overstep the core problem of a franchise. Spider-Man and X-Men and all those others ended up falling flat because they established a formula and just kept rotating it until people got sick of it.

But this.... With the history of the character, you could keep these movies going indefinitely, as long as you have a good director with a clear vision of a new chapter for the character. So far each movie brings Batman to a new place, and establishes a thick volume of themes for exploration.

I don't know if I can elaborate any more... The drool is shorting out my keyboard.
 
The Overlord said:
She not a complex character, a jewel theif that makes Batman horny. Its fun side character and not that hard to do, but she couldn't carry a whole movie.
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Even as a second or third tier supporting character or villain, thats still pretty shallow, simplistic, and derivative. I'd expect a bit more imagination from the writers' if she were to be introduced in a third.

Dr.Strangefate said:
Batman hates dogs, apparently.
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But he likes cats (see Catwoman). Zing-ga-da!

Lynx said:
What about Catwoman wouldn't work in the Nolanverse? Obviously ignoring Berry's Catwoman.

I mean, all she is is a cat burglar who wears a disguise to conceal her identity. Much like the titular character is a vigilante who wears a disguise to conceal his identity. Plus, she presents a moral dilemma for Batman.

Obviously, she wouldn't be the movie's main villain. She'd be the Two-Face of Batman 3. I honestly think a movie about the Riddler and Catwoman would be a great follow-up to this movie. And, if you really want, throw in the Penguin as the guy who took over Falcone's empire.
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Thats what bugs me about it, I know it can work, I just can't picture it in my mind without it seeming ridiculous.
 
DARKKNIGHT said:
Thanks that makes sense. Anyone know who the five people Two-Face kills are? All I have is two, Maroni's driver and the cop in that bar. That leaves three, one of which has to be a cop. Were they off camera?
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The car crash is implied to kill Maroni as well, methinks. I don't know who the other two are.
 
DIrishB said:
I think the other two were the policeman guarding Gordon's family. It was just offscreen. But I don't think he just incapacitated them in a non-lethal way.
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But then that female cop called Barbara to come to so and so a place. Why would he have her do that when he just killed them?
 
I'm currently watching the Psychology of Batman (Batman Unmasked) on the History Channel.
 
Doublehex said:
But then that female cop called Barbara to come to so and so a place. Why would he have her do that when he just killed them?
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????

He had Ana Ortiz (I think that was the female cops name) call them to lure them there or something, then he killed them. I assumed Barbara and kids show up or something and he nabbed them then. I honestly can't remember the details, there was so much going on. I'll keep an eye out when I see it again this weekend.
 
DIrishB said:
????

He had Ana Ortiz (I think that was the female cops name) call them to lure them there or something, then he killed them. I assumed Barbara and kids show up or something and he nabbed them then. I honestly can't remember the details, there was so much going on. I'll keep an eye out when I see it again this weekend.
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He had Ana call, and the excuse she gave was that the cops couldn't be trusted. Theoretically, why would Gordan move his family to a more secure location, due to fears of the cops guarding his family, only to have the exact reasoning of his doubts go with his family?
 
I've been thinking lately that Catwoman could totally work.

I suggested back in the speculation thread about bringing in Nightwing, but Catwoman would actually be more plausible: Introduce Selina Kyle as a mysterious socialite who become Bruce Wayne's newest piece of arm candy. But soon they both begin to figure out that the other is keeping secrets and projecting a more vapid public persona than who they really are, which just makes them more interested in each other. Batman encounters Catwoman, but it's a while before he realizes that she and Selina are the same person. When Batman is put out of commission by Bane, Catwoman briefly becomes Gotham's new protector. Batman has helped someone turn over a new leaf and has regained his hope that Gotham isn't a lost cause.

That's how I'd see it working. And just downplay the "cat" aspect of Catwoman. The only thing that really makes her costume much of a costume is those ears. Other than that, she dresses the way you would probably expect a highly-skilled cat burglar to dress.
Dr.Strangefate said:
Fun thing to do: Next time you see this movie, count how many dogs Batman kills.

I counted three, but i may be wrong (one off the balcony in the parking garage, one down the elevator shaft in the building, and another one looks and sounds like he's breaking its neck).

Batman hates dogs, apparently.
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I have deduced The Batman's true identity! The Batman is, in fact...





MICHAEL VICK!!!
 
I was wondering why they used Ana in the animated movie and not Renee.

This explains it. It mentions her mom in the hospital in that as well.
 
moonmaster said:
I've been thinking lately that Catwoman could totally work.

I suggested back in the speculation thread about bringing in Nightwing, but Catwoman would actually be more plausible: Introduce Selina Kyle as a mysterious socialite who become Bruce Wayne's newest piece of arm candy. But soon they both begin to figure out that the other is keeping secrets and projecting a more vapid public persona than who they really are, which just makes them more interested in each other. Batman encounters Catwoman, but it's a while before he realizes that she and Selina are the same person. When Batman is put out of commission by Bane, Catwoman briefly becomes Gotham's new protector. Batman has helped someone turn over a new leaf and has regained his hope that Gotham isn't a lost cause.

That's how I'd see it working. And just downplay the "cat" aspect of Catwoman. The only thing that really makes her costume much of a costume is those ears. Other than that, she dresses the way you would probably expect a highly-skilled cat burglar to dress.
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I kinda like that, not sure about her being gotham's protector but maybe an ally of Batman. I agree that there should be no cat in her costume. Just a suit needed for stealing. And that she's a female cat burglar who envades that Batman she gets labeled cat woman, something she takes a liking too. But that's it
 
Yep, I like it all except for "Catwoman briefly becomes Gotham's new protector", which is just too implausible and the sort of comic-bookiness the series is trying to evolve from. I agree that she should help Bruce and turn over a new leaf in that respect, but not quite to that level. Jean-Paul Valley on the other hand..... I think seeing Bruce have to catharically out-bat somebody is the kind of "what could top TDK?" moment we've been asking for.
 
I'd almost prefer The Red Hood (without the Robin background) as the new protector he'd have to Out-Bat. Jason Todd fits better into this universe than any of the other robins.

Hell, if they were to go the Robin route, i'd almost prefer Todd to Grayson. He's a kid off the street. A real child to the corruption of Gotham. The perfect symbol for what Batman wants to change and redeem.
 
I agree with Doc. Out of all the former Robins, Jason Todd is far and away the best fit

But what about Commissioner Gordon's son? He was forced, at the end of the Dark Knight, into a sort of reversal of the Wayne murders. and he's one of the few people in Gotham to directly witness the heroic nature of the Batman.
 
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Zombipanda said:
I agree with Doc. Out of all the former Robins, Jason Todd is far and away the best fit

But what about Commissioner Gordon's son? He was forced, at the end of the Dark Knight, into a sort of reversal of the Wayne murders. and he's one of the few people in Gotham to directly witness the heroic nature of the Batman.
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and the fact the Ramirez is still, alive (assuming) she's a pretty decent threat to the truth behind Dent

and that other kid from Begins
 
Gemini said:
and the fact the Ramirez is still, alive (assuming) she's a pretty decent threat to the truth behind Dent

and that other kid from Begins
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But she doesn't seem like a genuine threat. She came across, to me at least, as a generally good intentioned cop who was compromised and exploited by family emergency.
 
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