The Future of Star Wars

[ourchair]

Re: future of star wars

-Lucas said himself he is 1000% done with the films

People say a lot of things. Doesn't mean they always go by what they said. And if it worked for Empire Strikes Back, why wouldn't it work for this if say it was done and Lucas wasn't directing?

George Lucas is a compulsive liar.

Normal film it would end up pissing off so many fans and making star wars looses a good portion of the fan base. Like a lot of fans stopped been fans after Episode I.

First rule you always need to learn is that you will never, NEVER please everyone. Fan or not.

Exacty. Not to mention that trying to second-guess the potential audience of your work is usually a fruitless endeavor.

Could you imagine if Tolkien tried to figure out how to write The Lord of the Rings without pissing off people who read The Hobbit? Or if Frank Miller got worried about alienating audiences with his Japanese fetish ninjitsu hoo-ha in Daredevil?

Because they would show other Jedi and other sith who wouldf look more impressive. They would have to been Jedi and Sith in their prime and at war with each other making him look weaker

I know, let's stop making detective stories because they might look more impressive than Sherlock Holmes. Let's also stop making making kung fu films where everyone looks more impressive than Bruce Lee. Let's also stop making new superheroes because they might end up being more impressive than the forty-year old creations of Stan Lee, et al. (of course, some would argue that superhero universes are ALREADY crowded, but that's neither here nor there).

Congratulations, you've just indicated a desire to completely arrest and impede the entire creative health of pop culture.

 

[Lynx]

Re: future of star wars

I have to kind of agree with Mole. The Star Wars films told a complete story and, to be honest, anything not dealing with the Skywalkers would feel. . .out of place. If they're going to make more films, than they need to do 7, 8 and 9, not KOTOR-era films.

But, I think KOTOR would be great for either a live-action or animated series.

 

[Ice]

Re: future of star wars

I have to kind of agree with Mole. The Star Wars films told a complete story and, to be honest, anything not dealing with the Skywalkers would feel. . .out of place. If they're going to make more films, than they need to do 7, 8 and 9, not KOTOR-era films.

But, I think KOTOR would be great for either a live-action or animated series.

It's done a-plenty with comics and games and the stories work fine. I don't see how a film would hurt anything.

 

[ourchair]

Re: future of star wars

I have to kind of agree with Mole. The Star Wars films told a complete story and, to be honest, anything not dealing with the Skywalkers would feel. . .out of place. If they're going to make more films, than they need to do 7, 8 and 9, not KOTOR-era films.

Star Wars is wrong without the Skywalkers?

The franchise lived fine in stories without them for nearly twenty years in comics, role-playing games, novels and even two animated series.

 

[SSJmole]

And? I still don't see how it makes it any less better.

because written by lucas = a feel to it. Even the cheesy Dialogue is part of the feel. Anyone else and thee feel changes there is no Denying that and it becomes different.

You keep making it as anything bad only applies to movies and not shows.

again see real star wars fan EU argument.

Yeah, you mean like actually not give up because someone else thinks different than I? Definetly me.

There is difference between "giving up" and just sick of the same old debates

They don't listen? You mean the same way you're acting, too? Nice.

I mean they refuse to see that the real fans the ones who buy 99% of the stuff from comics to even action figures know it would fail but hey pissing off fans is ok. After all i've everyone here say how much love the MJ Goblin thing that 99% of fans would hate.... oh wait no they don't they hate it.

I don't even give a damn about Superman.

It was an example. Ok then you like Ice man so i'm sure you get sick of "Oh he's made of ice right shouldn't he like melt?"

Star Wars is wrong without the Skywalkers?

The franchise lived fine in stories without them for nearly twenty years in comics, role-playing games, novels and even two animated series.

EU stuff thou.

I have to kind of agree with Mole. The Star Wars films told a complete story and, to be honest, anything not dealing with the Skywalkers would feel. . .out of place. If they're going to make more films, than they need to do 7, 8 and 9, not KOTOR-era films.

But, I think KOTOR would be great for either a live-action or animated series.

exactly 7,8,9 is more forgiveable and I love KOTR stuff and DO think like I said and you said anything but movies unless its dvd/tv movies. TV show fine , cartoon fine , Movie wrong

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: future of star wars

I didn't see this thread when I posted in the Off-Topic Thread, but I think we can all agree the best bet for the future of Star Wars is in gangsta rap.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: future of star wars

Lucas didnt write or direct Empire or Jedi.

Just sayin'

 

[SSJmole]

Re: future of star wars

Lucas didnt write or direct Empire or Jedi.

Just sayin'

He did write it but someone edited it

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: future of star wars

He did write it but someone edited it

No, he didn't. He plotted them.

Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan wrote the screenplay for Empire. Lawrence Kasdan wrote Jedi (but Lucas reworked a lot of it in production and got a screenwriting credit for it)

 

[Lynx]

Re: future of star wars

Star Wars is wrong without the Skywalkers?

The franchise lived fine in stories without them for nearly twenty years in comics, role-playing games, novels and even two animated series.

Not at all.

But I think the Star Wars MOVIES without the Skywalkers is wrong.

It's done a-plenty with comics and games and the stories work fine. I don't see how a film would hurt anything.

I just don't think a SW movie without the Skywalkers would be right. The movies were about the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. The movies told their tale. I think the comics, novels and games are great, but I think the movies, unless they make a sequel about Luke, are done.

I have no problem with TV, though. Plus, the KOTOR era is just that, an era. A two hour movie wouldn't do it justice. It's like how we only got the very beginning and tail end of the Clone Wars. A two-hour movie just wouldn't be enough to tell a war that lasts several years. KOTOR would be better as a TV series, animated or live-action doesn't matter. It could tell the entire story over seasons rather than try to cram it into 1 (Or 3) movies.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: future of star wars

No, he didn't. He plotted them.

Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan wrote the screenplay for Empire. Lawrence Kasdan wrote Jedi (but Lucas reworked a lot of it in production and got a screenwriting credit for it)

And Leigh Brackett (wife of classic Legion of Super-Heroes writer Edmond Hamilton) apparently had nothing to do with the final script to Empire, but got credit anyway because the writer's guild has bizarre rules (ask Terry Gilliam about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas sometime).

I have the Star Wars Annotated screenplays book and I have to recommend it. It's totally awesome and shows how completely Star Wars changed from Lucas' original vision. If you knew what he planned before ending up with what we got you would never believe anything he ever says about an overarching mythology.

(also, Harrison Ford ad-libbed all Han's best lines)

 

[Lynx]

Re: future of star wars

I have the Star Wars Annotated screenplays book and I have to recommend it. It's totally awesome and shows how completely Star Wars changed from Lucas' original vision. If you knew what he planned before ending up with what we got you would never believe anything he ever says about an overarching mythology.

Pffft, I figured that out in Return of the Jedi when Lucas made Leia Luke's sister.

Hell, I had my suspicions when Vader told Luke he was his father.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Re: future of star wars

Pffft, I figured that out in Return of the Jedi when Lucas made Leia Luke's sister.

Hell, I had my suspicions when Vader told Luke he was his father.

So really then, any argument about the two trilogies being Anakin's story is pretty much crap. The latest three are, yes, but the first trilogy is clearly Luke's story, with Vader barely even being in Star Wars (at least, for someone who the movie's supposedly about).

Like you say, vader being Luke's father was added way later and his redemption wasn't even in mind until Jedi.

 

[Lynx]

Re: future of star wars

So really then, any argument about the two trilogies being Anakin's story is pretty much crap. The latest three are, yes, but the first trilogy is clearly Luke's story, with Vader barely even being in Star Wars (at least, for someone who the movie's supposedly about).

Like you say, vader being Luke's father was added way later and his redemption wasn't even in mind until Jedi.

By that argument, only A New Hope wasn't about Anakin. Because Empire and Jedi dealt with the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. His redemption may not have been talked about before Jedi, but at least you could tell that was coming. The only one that seems out of place, then, is ANH.

But, regardless, the movies are still about the Skywalkers. Luke, Anakin, it doesn't matter. I think the lack of a Skywalker in a new movie would detract from the experience. They would feel disconnected.

Like I said, I have no problem with the EU dealing with other aspects and time periods of the GFFA. Games, comics, novels and television. But, the movies are about the Skywalkers, regardless of how Lucas wrote them.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: future of star wars

So really then, any argument about the two trilogies being Anakin's story is pretty much crap. The latest three are, yes, but the first trilogy is clearly Luke's story, with Vader barely even being in Star Wars (at least, for someone who the movie's supposedly about).

Like you say, vader being Luke's father was added way later and his redemption wasn't even in mind until Jedi.

Sorry Kids, that's not true... While Vader was not always supposed to be Luke's father, he was always supposed to be be a father figure. His name, in Dutch, is Dark Father, for pete's sake. His redemption was in the cards from the beginning Lucas started to think out the trilogy, although the introduction of a non-literal father figure for Vader (aka, The Emperor) was necessary for Vader to complete his own Hero's Journey in Jedi (although the early parts of that journey wouldn't be told until the prequel Trilogy.

Lucas was a big fan of Joseph Campbell's theory of the Cosmogonic Cycle (aka The Monomyth, or the Hero's Journey), and Vader represents the archetypal father in the story for Luke...

Call to Adventure
LUKE - Princess Leia's Message
ANAKIN - Qui-Gon quite literally calls him to Adventure

Introduction of the Guide
LUKE - Obi-Wan reveals himself as more than just Ben Kenobi
ANAKIN - Qui-Gon shows up

Initial Refusal of the Call
LUKE - Luke needs to stay for the Harvest
ANAKIN - Anakin doesn't want to leave his mother

Defeat The Threshold Monster
LUKE - Escapes the Stormtroopers and the Spies (Agents of his Father, and Thus representative of his Father) on Tatooine
ANAKIN - Escapes Darth Maul (The Agent of his Father Figure) on Tatooine

Cross The Threshold into the Underworld
LUKE - Leaves Tatooine to enter the heart of the Intergalactic Empire
ANAKIN - Leaves Tatooine to enter his life as a Jedi in the heart of the Republic

Trials and Tribulations of the Underworld
LUKE - Training with Obi-Wan, Training with Yoda
ANAKIN - Training with Qui-Gon, Training with Obi-Wan

Meeting with the Goddess
LUKE - Leia (while initially a sexual thing, the Goddess character can also emerge as a Priestess, or a Sister figure, and still serve the same purpose)
ANAKIN - Amidala

Temptation
LUKE - Tempted towards the Dark Side of the Force by his Father
ANAKIN - Tempted towards the Dark Side of the Force by his Father-Figure

Defeating the Dark Side of Self
LUKE - Luke fights Vader in the cave in Dagobah, only to find his face behind the mask
ANAKIN - For Anakin this is more complex than purely literal, as the Dark Side of Self is Darth Vader... And Anakin's battle with Vader is basically halted from the moment he hears Padme is dead until he realizes his children are still alive...

Atonement with the Father
LUKE - Luke refuses to kill Vader, reconciles with his Father in his final moments
ANAKIN - Anakin kills Palpatine

Apotheosis (Godly Moment)
LUKE - Luke risks his life to save his father, acting selflessly to become a Jedi
ANAKIN - Vader saves his son by killing Palpatine, and by cracking open his mask allows himself to die so that he can see his son and die to become one with the Force.

Exiting the Underworld with the Boon
LUKE - Escapes the exploding Death Star and the Intergalactic Empire has been destroyed
ANAKIN - Escapes the Dark Side of the Force and rejoins the Jedis in death


There are other steps and archetypes in there (such as Han Solo as the Antihero, trying to get Luke to stray from the Hero's Journey as a false Guide), and i could explain it better... but I am tiiiired.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

Re: future of star wars

Sorry Kids, that's not true... While Vader was not always supposed to be Luke's father, he was always supposed to be be a father figure. His name, in Dutch, is Dark Father, for pete's sake. His redemption was in the cards from the beginning Lucas started to think out the trilogy, although the introduction of a non-literal father figure for Vader (aka, The Emperor) was necessary for Vader to complete his own Hero's Journey in Jedi (although the early parts of that journey wouldn't be told until the prequel Trilogy.

Lucas was a big fan of Joseph Campbell's theory of the Cosmogonic Cycle (aka The Monomyth, or the Hero's Journey), and Vader represents the archetypal father in the story for Luke...

Call to Adventure
LUKE - Princess Leia's Message
ANAKIN - Qui-Gon quite literally calls him to Adventure

Introduction of the Guide
LUKE - Obi-Wan reveals himself as more than just Ben Kenobi
ANAKIN - Qui-Gon shows up

Initial Refusal of the Call
LUKE - Luke needs to stay for the Harvest
ANAKIN - Anakin doesn't want to leave his mother

Defeat The Threshold Monster
LUKE - Escapes the Stormtroopers and the Spies (Agents of his Father, and Thus representative of his Father) on Tatooine
ANAKIN - Escapes Darth Maul (The Agent of his Father Figure) on Tatooine

Cross The Threshold into the Underworld
LUKE - Leaves Tatooine to enter the heart of the Intergalactic Empire
ANAKIN - Leaves Tatooine to enter his life as a Jedi in the heart of the Republic

Trials and Tribulations of the Underworld
LUKE - Training with Obi-Wan, Training with Yoda
ANAKIN - Training with Qui-Gon, Training with Obi-Wan

Meeting with the Goddess
LUKE - Leia (while initially a sexual thing, the Goddess character can also emerge as a Priestess, or a Sister figure, and still serve the same purpose)
ANAKIN - Amidala

Temptation
LUKE - Tempted towards the Dark Side of the Force by his Father
ANAKIN - Tempted towards the Dark Side of the Force by his Father-Figure

Defeating the Dark Side of Self
LUKE - Luke fights Vader in the cave in Dagobah, only to find his face behind the mask
ANAKIN - For Anakin this is more complex than purely literal, as the Dark Side of Self is Darth Vader... And Anakin's battle with Vader is basically halted from the moment he hears Padme is dead until he realizes his children are still alive...

Atonement with the Father
LUKE - Luke refuses to kill Vader, reconciles with his Father in his final moments
ANAKIN - Anakin kills Palpatine

Apotheosis (Godly Moment)
LUKE - Luke risks his life to save his father, acting selflessly to become a Jedi
ANAKIN - Vader saves his son by killing Palpatine, and by cracking open his mask allows himself to die so that he can see his son and die to become one with the Force.

Exiting the Underworld with the Boon
LUKE - Escapes the exploding Death Star and the Intergalactic Empire has been destroyed
ANAKIN - Escapes the Dark Side of the Force and rejoins the Jedis in death


There are other steps and archetypes in there (such as Han Solo as the Antihero, trying to get Luke to stray from the Hero's Journey as a false Guide), and i could explain it better... but I am tiiiired.

I've only ever read Joseph Campbell's "The hero with a thousand faces" but your assessment is completely accurate. Rock on.

 

[moonmaster]

Re: future of star wars

Star Wars is overrated.

THAT IS ALL.

 

[Lynx]

Re: future of star wars

Star Wars is overrated.

THAT IS ALL.

As a piece of cinematography, I agree with you.

But, since most of us grew up with it, we have fond, childhood memories of it. And that's where it gets its popularity.

 

[ourchair]

Re: future of star wars

Star Wars is overrated.

THAT IS ALL.

I agree with you. I even feel more strongly AGAINST Star Wars than most people, but I didn't bring it up because it's neither here nor there for me to say so when I'm too busy arguing about everything else.

EU stuff thou.

But, regardless, the movies are still about the Skywalkers. Luke, Anakin, it doesn't matter. I think the lack of a Skywalker in a new movie would detract from the experience. They would feel disconnected.

Like I said, I have no problem with the EU dealing with other aspects and time periods of the GFFA. Games, comics, novels and television. But, the movies are about the Skywalkers, regardless of how Lucas wrote them.

By that logic, the LOTR trilogy is completely invalid because it was HARDLY about Bilbo, the chief protagonist of The Hobbit. Oh wait, no, it's about the Bagginses. :roll:

In any case, what's the next choice? A whole new trilogy about the Skywalkers? Like what Anakin's father? The Solo twins? So we'll just have a long-running multi-generational saga about ONE family?

Mind you, there's nothing wrong with that, but to say that the Expanded Universe has no right to encroach into the film territory is complete bollocks. It's just fundamentally stupid narrow-minded thinking that pretty much cripples the idea of doing anything remotely creative with the property.

I mean Jesus, it's called "NEW franchise". We're talking creativity AND dollars.

 

[Random]

Re: future of star wars

I think a film that is set in a different time period of the Star Wars universe, I would just say that I'd rather it not have "Star Wars" in the title cause to me Star Wars is the title of the overall story with 6 episodes. But I think that a film like that wouldn't do so well, if they avoid the mistakes the prequels made than maybe but I just cant see it