The Ultimates 2 #6 Discussion (Spoilers)

Bass said:
...because the traitor speaks with first hand knowledge of the operation. They make it very clear they were present...
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do they actually make it clear they were present?
Let's not forget that Betty would have excellent knowledge of all the going on in the team, and all the stuff the team is involved in, as she is the PR lady, no? :)
 
Guijllons said:
As I've mentioned before in real world terms about the US being hijacked, and that a true patriot could easily be seen as a traitor.. How patriotic is Hank?

how much does this man really believe in America, or the Ultimates for that matter? Does he just want a playground for his experiments, or does he deep down appreciate what it is that is the motivation behind the Ultimates. We know that both Fury and Tony are patriotic idealists, is Hank in it for similar reasons to Hawkeye for example? Just doing what he does, because that's all he can do.

I think this whole issue of the traitor really hangs over that one point. How patriotic IS Hank Pym?
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Valid question, but I'll counter by suggesting that Pym's patriotism isn't really important to the traitor.

All that matters is that Pym committed one inexcusable act that made him a less public-friendly and marketable individual as a member of the Ultimates. That interests the traitor because what matters to him/her is that Pym is an individual who feels that he has been brushed aside and ousted by the system simply because he didn't measure up to their stringent standards.

Regardless of whether or not one finds Pym despicable or noble, he is now the "guy who got shafted", and that's enough reason for the traitor to believe he can be courted.
 
Isn't it obvious that Hank is 100% behind the Ultimates. I mean even after he's been humiliated and ruined by them, he still wants to help. He's made his errors but he knows the side of good. It didn't really seem to me like he was just doing it so that he can become a huge celebrity.
 
Betty, Betty, Betty ...

Yes, it is Bety. Betty is the traitor. She is the one who has been manipulating people. She manipulated Cap into attacking Hank following the attack on Jan (by claiming - with no supporting evidence - that Hank has ahsitory of domestic abuse). She was responsible for the fiasco of the Hulk cover story (which she then used to expose the Ultimates to public criticism). She was genuinely cynical about Fury's mock sympathy for the injured and grieving following Hulk's ramage in Ultimates Vol 1.

Betty showed genuine affection for Bruce Banner following the Hulk saga in Vol 1 (remember she wrote a letter every day for months, requesting personal visits with Bruce) and she showed genuine remorse when Bruce was facing a death sentence - blaming Fury and the Ultimates for the death of her beloved Bruce is more than enough reason for betrayal. Disgust at a cynically mourning Fury is enough reason to betray the Ultimates and her repulsion at the militarism of Captain America (who is so easily manipulated to act violently) is enough reason to betray the Ultimates.

Betty is the betrayer and she knows where all the Ultimates skeletons are buried! Question is, who are her allies?
 
ranaj said:
Yes, it is Bety. Betty is the traitor. She is the one who has been manipulating people. She manipulated Cap into attacking Hank following the attack on Jan (by claiming - with no supporting evidence - that Hank has ahsitory of domestic abuse). She was responsible for the fiasco of the Hulk cover story (which she then used to expose the Ultimates to public criticism). She was genuinely cynical about Fury's mock sympathy for the injured and grieving following Hulk's ramage in Ultimates Vol 1.

Betty showed genuine affection for Bruce Banner following the Hulk saga in Vol 1 (remember she wrote a letter every day for months, requesting personal visits with Bruce) and she showed genuine remorse when Bruce was facing a death sentence - blaming Fury and the Ultimates for the death of her beloved Bruce is more than enough reason for betrayal. Disgust at a cynically mourning Fury is enough reason to betray the Ultimates and her repulsion at the militarism of Captain America (who is so easily manipulated to act violently) is enough reason to betray the Ultimates.

Betty is the betrayer and she knows where all the Ultimates skeletons are buried! Question is, who are her allies?
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DUDE! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE. It's Betty. I agree with you 100%
 
Although I dismissed the idea when I first heard it, how awesome would it be if Bruce gave Betty Hulk serum like an STD?
 
ranaj said:
Yes, it is Bety. Betty is the traitor. She is the one who has been manipulating people. She manipulated Cap into attacking Hank following the attack on Jan (by claiming - with no supporting evidence - that Hank has ahsitory of domestic abuse). She was responsible for the fiasco of the Hulk cover story (which she then used to expose the Ultimates to public criticism). She was genuinely cynical about Fury's mock sympathy for the injured and grieving following Hulk's ramage in Ultimates Vol 1.

Betty showed genuine affection for Bruce Banner following the Hulk saga in Vol 1 (remember she wrote a letter every day for months, requesting personal visits with Bruce) and she showed genuine remorse when Bruce was facing a death sentence - blaming Fury and the Ultimates for the death of her beloved Bruce is more than enough reason for betrayal. Disgust at a cynically mourning Fury is enough reason to betray the Ultimates and her repulsion at the militarism of Captain America (who is so easily manipulated to act violently) is enough reason to betray the Ultimates.

Betty is the betrayer and she knows where all the Ultimates skeletons are buried! Question is, who are her allies?
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But didnt Loki say that the traitor is on the team. Remember how he said about "super soldier" (not literally one, but you get the idea). Betty isn't on the team, so it can't be her.
 
Why would Betty sell out Banner? She's so fixed on him that it would be really out of character for that to be so.
 
Sell out banner?

No. Not sell out Banner, but surely sell out the team which almost killed him, demoted him and embarassed/humiliated him.

Exposing the Ultimates cover-up of the Hulk connection was a means of embarassing the Ultimates Not Banner. Indeed, it may be seen as a means to having Banner freed. And it worked on both counts.
 
icemastertron said:
But didnt Loki say that the traitor is on the team. Remember how he said about "super soldier" (not literally one, but you get the idea). Betty isn't on the team, so it can't be her.
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He said "...You ahve a traitor in the fold." So it could someone who works closely with The Ultimates or SHIELD.
 
ranaj said:
...blaming Fury and the Ultimates for the death of her beloved Bruce ....
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hmm, i disagree with that one - i think she knows he is alive. maybe she didnt know at the time, but she would know now.
because:
Betty knows where all the Ultimates skeletons are buried!
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i think she would know if fury had ordered banner to be spared, somehow or other...

Question is, who are her allies?
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that is indeed a very good question!
 
René said:
He said "...You ahve a traitor in the fold." So it could someone who works closely with The Ultimates or SHIELD.
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And he also said "One of your super soldiers...etc.". Betty isn't a supersoldier, and I know he didn't literally mean one, but a member on the team. Betty isn't a member of the Ultimates. Its not her.
 
ranaj said:
Betty is the betrayer and she knows where all the Ultimates skeletons are buried! Question is, who are her allies?
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I just had a though. What if Loki's friends are Ultron and Vision II and HE'S responsible for their gaining sentience? He can twist reality remember, and giving uber-androids the ability to decide good or evil sure would cause alot of mischief. Maybe there's more going on here than seems too be. Loki isn't working too the same goal as the "traitor" he has his own agenda. Maybe its let the traitor break the Ultimates/disenfranchise them and THEN have something like say, Ultron breaking out happen. Fun little idea, huh ;).
 
Did we actually see Ultron and Vision II fuctioning? Like, on their own? I'd like to see scans of each of these characters... They'll probably be big pieces in the next arc.
 
Goodwill said:
Did we actually see Ultron and Vision II fuctioning? Like, on their own? I'd like to see scans of each of these characters... They'll probably be big pieces in the next arc.
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They were walking...they looked at each other when Pym said something about them being expendable.
 
Do they have any likeness to their 616 counterparts? Does Pym say anything about the older Vision? Is it really necessary for a second one? Does anyone have the panels that they appear in?
 
Goodwill said:
Do they have any likeness to their 616 counterparts? Does Pym say anything about the older Vision? Is it really necessary for a second one? Does anyone have the panels that they appear in?
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All of these questions have been discussed, even in this thread.

They don't really look like the 616 versions.

He refers to this as Vision 2 - he says nothing about the first.

You don't read Ultimates? :shock:
 
The robots did look a little unfinished however, were they to be used then they would probably be given a look more in fitting with their 616 counterparts.
 
Did no one else think Ultron and Vision II looked like they'd been made from bits and pieces of the Iron Man armour?
 
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