Ultimate Spider-Man #103... SPOILERS!

[ProjectX2]

What has he done??

This is the Ultimate universe. There's no rules here for him to abide by. It's a whole 'What if'/alternate universe. Anything goes. He can do what he likes. And he has done.

If you want proper Spider-Man, then go read the 616 comics.

Too bad 616 Spider-Man is just as bad.

 

[Keehar]

Too bad 616 Spider-Man is just as bad.

True.

There's always the back issues

 

[Void.M]

What has he done??

This is the Ultimate universe. There's no rules here for him to abide by. It's a whole 'What if'/alternate universe. Anything goes. He can do what he likes. And he has done.

If you want proper Spider-Man, then go read the 616 comics.

I dunno bruce Tim and Paul Dini did a better job than bendis in the DCAu..i mean they even made guys like Clock King into a threat..while bendis just turned guy like Schoker into a joke...a trained monkey can do better.

 

[Keehar]

I dunno bruce Tim and Paul Dini did a better job than bendis in the DCAu..i mean they even made guys like Clock King into a threat..while bendis just turned guy like Schoker into a joke...a trained monkey can do better.

Bendis wasn't trying to make Shocker a threat. He deliberately made him a bumbling twit. He's there strictly for light hearted comedy.

 

[Void.M]

Bendis wasn't trying to make Shocker a threat. He deliberately made him a bumbling twit. He's there strictly for light hearted comedy.

My point thats being lazy.


Not to mention the countless throw away villians...Go damn it he turned Omega red..OMEAGA Flipping RED into a throw away villian.

 

[Keehar]

My point thats being lazy.

Why is that lazy?? You speak as though he tried to make him a threat, but failed. So he took the easy way out.

He wanted a light hearted villain because this is a comic that's supposed to appeal to all readers, specifically those who never read Spider-Man before.

Shocker was a good choice. He's no major threat in 616 either. He's a thug villain. Like Rhino.

Bendis did make one very badly written 616 villain into a credible and interesting character: Venom.

Not to mention the countless throw away villians...Go damn it he turned Omega red..OMEAGA Flipping RED into a throw away villian.

Omega red is not a Spidey villain. Hence the cameo. Same as the Punisher.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Shocker's a bad example. I don't have any problem with how he's being used so far in Ultimate Spider-Man. But Bendis has been letting down a lot of fans with some of his ideas in this series lately and they don't seem to be getting any better.

 

[Keehar]

Bendis' biggest screw up so far has been Carnage IMO.

Hate what he did with that character. If you can even call it a character.

 

[Void.M]

Why is that lazy?? You speak as though he tried to make him a threat, but failed. So he took the easy way out.

He wanted a light hearted villain because this is a comic that's supposed to appeal to all readers, specifically those who never read Spider-Man before.

Shocker was a good choice. He's no major threat in 616 either. He's a thug villain. Like Rhino.


r.

Actualy1) Shocker has come close to beating Spiedy 2) alot of people consider him one of Spidey's most Underrated villains he knows he's a thug so he doenst pull any punches on spiedy also thats exacly my point.Mr. Freeze for Example was that high up on Batman's Rougue's galary but after Dini and Timm did his revamp in B:TAS he became on of Batman's most tragic and deadlly foes yet bendis doesnt make any of spiedy's C-list villians into a a real threat.

Rhino is a Major Threat he's gone toe to toe with the Hulk.


And Venom is an Interesting Villains even people who dont read comics think he's the sh!t

Omega red is not a Spidey villain. Hence the cameo. Same as the Punisher

That doesnt change the fact that BMB pretty uch raped the guy and that was his debute in the UU.

 

[Keehar]

Actualy1) Shocker has come close to beating Spiedy 2) alot of people consider him one of Spidey's most Underrated villains he knows he's a thug so he doenst pull any punches on spiedy also thats exacly my point.

Alot of villains have come close to beating Spidey. Shocker is no different.

As for being underrated, I think Electro is more underrated. Shocker is just a poor man's Electro rip off.

Mr. Freeze for Example was that high up on Batman's Rougue's galary but after Dini and Timm did his revamp in B:TAS he became on of Batman's most tragic and deadlly foes yet bendis doesnt make any of spiedy's C-list villians into a a real threat.

Mr Freeze had his entire back story re-written. Which was easy because he is intelligent and powerful.

Rhino is a Major Threat he's gone toe to toe with the Hulk.

Rhino's a meat head with the IQ of a retarded sparrow. I've never seen Spider-Man worry over him much.

And Venom is an Interesting Villains even people who dont read comics think he's the sh!t

Ult Venom is interesting. 616 Venom is a worn out cliche of a character, with weak motivations for hating Spider-Man.

That doesnt change the fact that BMB pretty uch raped the guy and that was his debute in the UU.

He did not rape him. There was nothing done to Omega Red that has damaged the character.

 

[Void.M]

Alot of villains have come close to beating Spidey. Shocker is no different.

As for being underrated, I think Electro is more underrated. Shocker is just a poor man's Electro rip off.

First off Shocker came first and second tehy dont even have the same powers..Plus shocker is sorta noble since he doesnt Kill.

Mr Freeze had his entire back story re-written. Which was easy because he is intelligent and powerful.

WIch is kinda the point of the Ultimate Universe Isnt it?

Ult Venom is interesting. 616 Venom is a worn out cliche of a character, with weak motivations for hating Spider-Man.

Yet,He is still Bad ***

He did not rape him. There was nothing done to Omega Red that has damaged the character.

Are you Blind man? He's a guy who can take on Wolverine yet he is defeted by Spidey with little to no effort.

 

[Keehar]

First off Shocker came first and second tehy dont even have the same powers..Plus shocker is sorta noble since he doesnt Kill.

Shocker came first?? You don't know your Spidey history too well. Electro came in Amazing Spider-Man #9. Shocker came in #46.

Their powers are electricity based. Firing electric power blasts at Spidey. Only Electro does it better.

WIch is kinda the point of the Ultimate Universe Isnt it?

To change a character's persona?? Yes.

And they have done. You just don't happen to like that particular change.

Yet,He is still Bad ***

Not to me he's not.

No wonder the Scorpion is the new Venom right now. They scraped the bottom of the barrell long ago with Brock.

Are you Blind man? He's a guy who can take on Wolverine yet he is defeted by Spidey with little to no effort.

This is the Ultimate universe.

Omega Red didn't defeat anyone here. Stop expecting the characters to be the same. If they were, you might as well stick to reading 616 , as you'd be reading the same thing.

 

[Ultxon]

Shocker came first?? You don't know your Spidey history too well. Electro came in Amazing Spider-Man #9. Shocker came in #46.

Their powers are electricity based. Firing electric power blasts at Spidey. Only Electro does it better.



To change a character's persona?? Yes.

And they have done. You just don't happen to like that particular change.



Not to me he's not.

No wonder the Scorpion is the new Venom right now. They scraped the bottom of the barrell long ago with Brock.



This is the Ultimate universe.

Omega Red didn't defeat anyone here. Stop expecting the characters to be the same. If they were, you might as well stick to reading 616 , as you'd be reading the same thing.

Actually the shocker is primarily a sound-based villain, he use vibro shock units. It's why he weras the suit to protect his body from spazing due to the high frequency.

Venom in the right hands is an excellent character; you can't really critqique him unless you've read ASM # 300, and 315-317, which are absoultely great representations of the character Brock should have been.

The purpose of the ultimate univer has become incresingly relative dependent on the reader. Some of us feel that any character must have have the smae characteritics and foibles as their 616 counterparts except without all the continuity backage, some feel that some chracters need to be redone bceuase their original version is stupid or campy. It's fruitless to argue the ultimazation process sense it's really just a personal thing.

I'm going to be optimistic about the Docneto and assume that he can only control the metal type of his arms and that any other metal was just metal thrown by the arms.

 

[Void.M]

Shocker came first?? You don't know your Spidey history too well. Electro came in Amazing Spider-Man #9. Shocker came in #46.

Their powers are electricity based. Firing electric power blasts at Spidey. Only Electro does it better.

I guess you dont know your Spiedy villians to well.

Shocker isnt electric based..its Sound based man

Not to me he's not.

No wonder the Scorpion is the new Venom right now. They scraped the bottom of the barrell long ago with Brock.

But thats you. alot of peole put him up there in Spiedys top 3(not you but im not asking ya) and brock will be back..since he's in a coma after he tried to commit suicide

and Scorpion way lower in the Spiedy rouges Galery only reason he went up is becouse of the Symbiote.

To change a character's persona?? Yes.

And they have done. You just don't happen to like that particular change.

Becouse the basicly tuened half of the into Joke's

This is the Ultimate universe.

Omega Red didn't defeat anyone here. Stop expecting the characters to be the same. If they were, you might as well stick to reading 616 , as you'd be reading the same thing.

Im not Especting the same im expecting them to Improve characters and not to turn them into Joke's and/or throw away villains.

I'm going to be optimistic about the Docneto and assume that he can only control the metal type of his arms and that any other metal was just metal thrown by the arms.

But he used a random Pipe and a big chunk of metal....though i hope your right.

 

[DIrishB]

Alot of villains have come close to beating Spidey. Shocker is no different.

As for being underrated, I think Electro is more underrated. Shocker is just a poor man's Electro rip off.



Mr Freeze had his entire back story re-written. Which was easy because he is intelligent and powerful.



Rhino's a meat head with the IQ of a retarded sparrow. I've never seen Spider-Man worry over him much.



Ult Venom is interesting. 616 Venom is a worn out cliche of a character, with weak motivations for hating Spider-Man.



He did not rape him. There was nothing done to Omega Red that has damaged the character.

I like the new guy.

 

[Ice]

No money until Friday, so no USM until Saturday. Sounds like an okay issue, but we'll see.

He did not rape him. There was nothing done to Omega Red that has damaged the character.

Besides give him a weak intro, one of Bendis' "Bendis Skills".

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

If Doc Ock has magnetic powers, why did his arms talk to him way back when? When did they stop talking to him?

Also: Otto Octavius just turned from one of the more interesting characters of the Ultimate Universe into a second-rate rip off...

The most painful parts of this arc are the well written sequences suffering from the godawful plot they represent... The good!bendis is so close to the surface I can see it bleeding through at points... I just wish it wasn't wasted on this **** storyline.

And killing off these clones already? How cheap is that ****?

If Jessica Drew dies in the next issue, i will be unspeakably unhappy... There is SO much potential for interesting stories centered around a female hero with a male past.

This book needs a new direction. Yesterday.

If my mom hadn't renewed my subscription for my birthday, this series would become the first Ultimate ongoing i've dropped.

 

[Foolsfolly]

About Magnetic powered Ock....I have to say it. That's ****ing retarded. The arms spoke to him, he could feel them while he was separated from them. But if he has magnetic powers...then what was the point of the arms? And if he's a mutant SHIELD would have caught on while Ock was in the imprisoned. Not saying anyone's saying he's a mutant, but when I hear magnetic powers I think Magneto and Polaris.

About the age old "This is the Ultimate Universe, it doesn't have to be like 616!" argument.

Here's the retort to the new dude.

It's true, it's different. But that doesn't give them utterly free reign here. In a perfect world the Ultimate line would be the universe for second rate characters to take on a life of their own and grow in ways impossible for them in 616, due to a long history of sucking ***.

Everyone uses the example of Mr. Freeze and he's a great example of a second rate forgotten joke of a character that was made better in a different universe. Bendis doesn't get that concept.

Bendis utterly believes that he can take Ock and give him magnet powers, turn Harry Osborn from Peter's friend to...well he was kind of a prick that had no character until the Hobgoblin arc, and then his character was generic psycho number three...the one that sees invisible made up people talking to them.

Compare Harry's in Ultimate, 616, and the Movie-verse. Yeah, see how bad Bendis messed up Harry.

HARRY! This was a main character in the Lee-Ditko era. Bendis barely showed him and when he did he was the guy that said the next line.

I do like Ultimate Shocker. But Ultimate RHINO is a joke, Ultimate Vulture who cares, Ultimate Omega Red is a joke, Ultimate Deadpool is really Ultimate Donald Pierce.

In fact, those are rather big names in the Spidey and X-Men mythos. So what has he made better than 616 counterparts?

The Enforcers. Seriously, that's it. What characters has he done well? Goblin and Kingpin. Everything else from turning Kraven into an Australian man-beast, to Gwen into Carnage is utter crap.

It's a different universe, yes. But it's still Spider-Man. And if this universe is about retelling stories, it's failed. And if this universe is about entertaining the old fans with an updated spin, it's also failed.

Want to see a different take on someone that works? Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Beast, Nick Fury, Sinister, Longshot, Iron Man, Colossus, Bucky, Cap, Hank and Janet Pym, Ben Parker, and Ben Grimm.

Notice how many of them aren't that much different than their 616 counterparts. That's because they're the essence of the character stripped away from the mountains of confusing, conflicting, and convoluted continuity oddness of 40 years of different writers and different takes on them and allowed to breathe and live anew in a different universe.

That's important, these character are classic. Spider-Man usually tops Batman and Superman as the most popular superhero in the world. So if you started a different universe where Spider-Man had the powers to control spiders and had to feed on blood like a vampire, and the personality of Wolverine...how can you justify something like that?

Some changes are cool, I love Hulk-looking Goblin. I love black Nick Fury. I love hippie Thor. I love cynical Cap. I love the Shi'ar as a church. I love villainous Longshot.

But some changes are stupid, and time and time again the person behind those stupid changes happens to be Bendis. At one point he had imagination with these sort of things, but now...he's lost it. He's been on this book too long and it's gotten stale. It's time for him to leave, and someone else pick up Spider-Man before Aunt May turns into the Stilt-Woman.

 

[Gideon Stargrave]

About Magnetic powered Ock....I have to say it. That's ****ing retarded. The arms spoke to him, he could feel them while he was separated from them. But if he has magnetic powers...then what was the point of the arms? And if he's a mutant SHIELD would have caught on while Ock was in the imprisoned. Not saying anyone's saying he's a mutant, but when I hear magnetic powers I think Magneto and Polaris.

About the age old "This is the Ultimate Universe, it doesn't have to be like 616!" argument.

Here's the retort to the new dude.

It's true, it's different. But that doesn't give them utterly free reign here. In a perfect world the Ultimate line would be the universe for second rate characters to take on a life of their own and grow in ways impossible for them in 616, due to a long history of sucking ***.

Everyone uses the example of Mr. Freeze and he's a great example of a second rate forgotten joke of a character that was made better in a different universe. Bendis doesn't get that concept.

Bendis utterly believes that he can take Ock and give him magnet powers, turn Harry Osborn from Peter's friend to...well he was kind of a prick that had no character until the Hobgoblin arc, and then his character was generic psycho number three...the one that sees invisible made up people talking to them.

Compare Harry's in Ultimate, 616, and the Movie-verse. Yeah, see how bad Bendis messed up Harry.

HARRY! This was a main character in the Lee-Ditko era. Bendis barely showed him and when he did he was the guy that said the next line.

I do like Ultimate Shocker. But Ultimate RHINO is a joke, Ultimate Vulture who cares, Ultimate Omega Red is a joke, Ultimate Deadpool is really Ultimate Donald Pierce.

In fact, those are rather big names in the Spidey and X-Men mythos. So what has he made better than 616 counterparts?

The Enforcers. Seriously, that's it. What characters has he done well? Goblin and Kingpin. Everything else from turning Kraven into an Australian man-beast, to Gwen into Carnage is utter crap.

It's a different universe, yes. But it's still Spider-Man. And if this universe is about retelling stories, it's failed. And if this universe is about entertaining the old fans with an updated spin, it's also failed.

Want to see a different take on someone that works? Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Beast, Nick Fury, Sinister, Longshot, Iron Man, Colossus, Bucky, Cap, Hank and Janet Pym, Ben Parker, and Ben Grimm.

Notice how many of them aren't that much different than their 616 counterparts. That's because they're the essence of the character stripped away from the mountains of confusing, conflicting, and convoluted continuity oddness of 40 years of different writers and different takes on them and allowed to breathe and live anew in a different universe.

That's important, these character are classic. Spider-Man usually tops Batman and Superman as the most popular superhero in the world. So if you started a different universe where Spider-Man had the powers to control spiders and had to feed on blood like a vampire, and the personality of Wolverine...how can you justify something like that?

Some changes are cool, I love Hulk-looking Goblin. I love black Nick Fury. I love hippie Thor. I love cynical Cap. I love the Shi'ar as a church. I love villainous Longshot.

But some changes are stupid, and time and time again the person behind those stupid changes happens to be Bendis. At one point he had imagination with these sort of things, but now...he's lost it. He's been on this book too long and it's gotten stale. It's time for him to leave, and someone else pick up Spider-Man before Aunt May turns into the Stilt-Woman.

What he said. (POTD)

 

[Goodwill]

I think we should shut this discussion down. That was beautiful.