Ultimate Spider-Man: Death of a Goblin (#112-117) (Spoilers)

[Random]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #116 (Spoilers)

*sigh*


I just read this and it was okay but felt really stupid. I mean how often are shield agents in this arc going to point their guns at Parker? Why does Danvers suck so much at this? And why is Harry saying "He killed my mommy"? I really can't take this anymore. I mean the dialog alone kills me, specially with Harry and the stake out agents. In ultimate Six Harry was done great, you didn't know if he was being fed these lines or if he really wanted to say it. Here, its so unbelievably insincere and sounds like a moron wrote this (...). And is there one shield agent who isn't either completely incompetent or a trigger happy moron? Jesus this is the highest freaking level US agency! There is good stuff, Bendis can write Ultimate Osborn like its nobody's business, really great, but all the other character dialogs just suck balls. And the story is really great, but its lost all impact for me since we've basically been waiting to see what happen since the Hobgoblin arc. So we get forty issues of crap waiting for the outcome.

You know what, I just have absolutely this title since the very start of Clone sage and this arc has done little to redeam itself. I said back during the clone saga that I was done, I was going to just let my sbscription run out and that's the end of it. Well this was the last issue, I'm done, I'm washing my hands of this. And this is the end of an era, I have all the issues up to this one, USM was my favorite title. Now I absolutely loath it. Too little, too late Bendis; Too little, too late Bendis. I'm done.



... Also I honestly don't get why people like Immonen's art so much, I can't get past those horrible faces

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #116 (Spoilers)

I love this arc. Everything post Clone Saga has been great and gives me a sliver of hope for the future of the Ultimateverse.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Here's the synopsis.

We start with Peter Parker waking up in his wrecked home. A short flashback of Green Goblin smacking him unconscious and running off to Harry. GG has taken the bait. Meanwhile where Danvers is waiting for Norman, she thanks Harry for helping. Seconds later though before they can send him back to safety, GG shows up. Spidey comes in tow as well to help out.

A brawl breaks out. Harry transforms into Hobgoblin to stop his father from starting another massacre. SHIELD gives Green Goblin everything they've got, but it's not enough. In blind fury, GG beats Hobgoblin fueled by what he believes is his son's betrayal. Unfortunately he does not notice that Hobgoblin can't take it anymore and has reverted back to Harry during his assault. He finds out too late and transforms back to Norman in front of Harry's lifeless body, deliberately letting SHIELD have him out of guilt and sadness. Danvers finishes him off by shooting him one last time. It is not clear if Norman was killed or not. Spidey weeps for his fallen friend and out of sheer anger tells Danvers to get the hell away from him and leaves.

On the next day back at school, Peter gives a simple speech in class about how he believes Harry is a hero because he used to protect him from bullying. MJ and Liz weep silently. The End.

It was a very heart-breaking ending honestly. Looks like all mainstream incarnations of Harry (616, Ultimate and movie) have bitten the dust, so I believe it was kind of expected. We won't have the same emotional impact if it was Norman who died. Definitely a 5/5 for me. I hope that this story arc is not a fluke and Bendis' winning streak continues with the Amazing Friends.

 

[Sacred&Profane]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

This was great. The art was great, the writing as good as earlier issues of the series.
Huzzah.

 

[Bass]

I haven't finished reading the issue, I had to stop and post something.

I just recently read the post-Clone Saga stories; Knights and Death of a Goblin.

Bendis got a lot better, and Immonen is wonderful as always. Bendis has brought back a lot of the fun and character touches that got him where he is today. Unfortunately, the man's story arcs are just boring. Knights was Learning Curve with more guest stars. Save the scene of Daredevil with Kingpin's wife, it was boring repetition (the scene with Kingpin's wife was very well done). Death of a Goblin is yet another Green Goblin story and I'm bored.

Which is probably why I was so shocked to see Spidey yell, "MANISHEVITZ!"

SPIDER-MAN ISN'T JEWISH.

What's the next arc? ONE MORE DRIEDEL where Spidey is forced to retcon his life so he's a Jewish kid?

Manishevitz.

****ing hell.

Just finished the issue.

The whole arc reeked of, "I don't know what to do with the Goblins, so I'll kill them in a rather boring way that doesn't involve Spidey". Spidey doesn't do anything to either of them. It's rather boring and silly and unnecessary, I think.

But that's the bad stuff out of the way because:

The eulogy by Spidey for Harry at the end was terrific.

 

[robje]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I haven't finished reading the issue, I had to stop and post something.

I just recently read the post-Clone Saga stories; Knights and Death of a Goblin.

Bendis got a lot better, and Immonen is wonderful as always. Bendis has brought back a lot of the fun and character touches that got him where he is today. Unfortunately, the man's story arcs are just boring. Knights was Learning Curve with more guest stars. Save the scene of Daredevil with Kingpin's wife, it was boring repetition (the scene with Kingpin's wife was very well done). Death of a Goblin is yet another Green Goblin story and I'm bored.

Which is probably why I was so shocked to see Spidey yell, "MANISHEVITZ!"

SPIDER-MAN ISN'T JEWISH.

What's the next arc? ONE MORE DRIEDEL where Spidey is forced to retcon his life so he's a Jewish kid?

Manishevitz.

****ing hell.

Yeah, that was so out of place I am just going to make spidey being jewish my personal canon. Ben said he once went to a community of some sort (where he was bitten by a spider, he mentions it in the very first issue)? It is now a kibbutz. Ben is jewish and so is spidey.

Also, loved this issue.

 

[TwilightEL]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Arrrrgh! Why does he keep getting rid of Harry?! There's so much potential in Harry and Peter's interactions, way more than Peter angsting for a couple of issues over how Harry has once again died/mutated/gone away/gone crazy!

 

[ultimatedjf]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Ha! Harry dies and

Spoiler

comes back from the dead

on the same day! Coincidence? I think not...

 

[Gemini]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Ha! Harry dies and

Spoiler

comes back from the dead

on the same day! Coincidence? I think not...

you're not saying that Ultimate Harry some how got sucked into the massive suck vortex of One More Day and got transported into the Brand New Day Universe are you? cuz i think that's what you're saying

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

you're not saying that Ultimate Harry some how got sucked into the massive suck vortex of One More Day and got transported into the Brand New Day Universe are you? cuz i think that's what you're saying

BENDIIIIIIIIIIIS!!!!!!!

 

[plungingforward]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I wasn't feeling this issue as I was the rest of the "death of a goblin" arc. I wish there had been more villains involved after the escape, and that something MORE had escalated out of all of this. There was such great build up and then ... the end.

THAT SAID, it was a good arc. I liked it. More importantly, it felt like an Ultimates book. Maybe Loeb ought to give it a read...

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

As a single issue....it was meh.


But the arc as a collective was great. EXACTLY what this title needed. Who would've thought USM would be good again.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I wasn't feeling this issue as I was the rest of the "death of a goblin" arc. I wish there had been more villains involved after the escape, and that something MORE had escalated out of all of this. There was such great build up and then ... the end.

I feel this is how most of Bendis' stories end. Just... theendgoodbye.

But the arc as a collective was great. EXACTLY what this title needed. Who would've thought USM would be good again.

How so? It's ULTIMATE SIX without the crossover. It's exactly the same.

Green Goblin breaks out of SHIELD because he's bored. He immediately tries to destroy Nick Fury. Then SHIELD uses their secret weapon; Harry Osborne. There is a big fight with SHIELD. The difference is that Green Goblin and Harry died, but essentially, it fits the formula. So I don't see how this is EXACTLY what the title needed? :?

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

How so? It's ULTIMATE SIX without the crossover. It's exactly the same.

Green Goblin breaks out of SHIELD because he's bored. He immediately tries to destroy Nick Fury. Then SHIELD uses their secret weapon; Harry Osborne. There is a big fight with SHIELD. The difference is that Green Goblin and Harry died, but essentially, it fits the formula. So I don't see how this is EXACTLY what the title needed? :?

Same here, I really dont get why people are say USM is good again with one okay, very repetitive arc.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

You guys hate because you want to hate.


This is easy one of the best arcs ever. Only Venom rivals it.

The fight between Norman and Harry was fantastic as was the ending.


Peter honoring Harry in class was heartbreaking.



Where is Fury, if he is in Ultimate Power, than Peter should know that?

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

You guys hate because you want to hate.


This is easy one of the best arcs ever. Only Venom rivals it.

The fight between Norman and Harry was fantastic as was the ending.


Peter honoring Harry in class was heartbreaking.



Where is Fury, if he is in Ultimate Power, than Peter should know that?

Though I haven't read the last issue, I would not count this issue as the same level as the Great USM arcs. Its okay but there is still some bad stuff, such as dialog, incompetent Shield agents, a recycled story, etc. Really the more I think about it the less spectacular the whole story was.

 

[the watcher]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

You guys hate because you want to hate.


This is easy one of the best arcs ever. Only Venom rivals it.

The fight between Norman and Harry was fantastic as was the ending.


Peter honoring Harry in class was heartbreaking.



Where is Fury, if he is in Ultimate Power, than Peter should know that?

I wouldn't go that far... It was good but I don't think it was that good. It's deffenetly better than it has been. And with the Fury and Ultimate Power thing... I agree with Bass when he said:

DID JEPH LOEB EVEN READ THE ULTIMATES?!?!?!

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I feel this is how most of Bendis' stories end. Just... theendgoodbye.

It is. But it's not a bad thing Bendis just likes to leave everything open ended so he gets the credit for bringing it back in later.

How so? It's ULTIMATE SIX without the crossover. It's exactly the same.

Green Goblin breaks out of SHIELD because he's bored. He immediately tries to destroy Nick Fury. Then SHIELD uses their secret weapon; Harry Osborne. There is a big fight with SHIELD. The difference is that Green Goblin and Harry died, but essentially, it fits the formula. So I don't see how this is EXACTLY what the title needed? :?

Damn...

 

[interpol]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

How so? It's ULTIMATE SIX without the crossover. It's exactly the same.
Green Goblin breaks out of SHIELD because he's bored. He immediately tries to destroy Nick Fury. Then SHIELD uses their secret weapon; Harry Osborne. There is a big fight with SHIELD. The difference is that Green Goblin and Harry died, but essentially, it fits the formula. So I don't see how this is EXACTLY what the title needed? :?

You just have to remember what Millar did with the Ultimates titles. He has the team fight one of their own (Hulk, Thor). He brings in the Hulk at the end to even the odds. He has an over the top battle sequence to make the story epic. Bendis did the same, kind of.
Bendis did kill off people he gave us more shock by killing both goblins (maybe...). He always knows how to give emotional issues. Really this was like Ultimate Six without the six, without Fury, and Harry playing a more important role

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I feel this is how most of Bendis' stories end. Just... theendgoodbye.



How so? It's ULTIMATE SIX without the crossover. It's exactly the same.

Green Goblin breaks out of SHIELD because he's bored. He immediately tries to destroy Nick Fury. Then SHIELD uses their secret weapon; Harry Osborne. There is a big fight with SHIELD. The difference is that Green Goblin and Harry died, but essentially, it fits the formula. So I don't see how this is EXACTLY what the title needed? :?

While the formula may be basically the same, there is still a substantial difference in the stories themselves. Same formula, maybe, but Bendis is injecting life into his characters again, making them more interesting and attractive to the reader. Despite the "Manishevitz" line (I also cringed at that), I really enjoyed this issue, and have steadily been doing so since Immonen came on. Obviously thats a large part due to Immonen, but Bendis' writing has obviously gotten better somehow.

Many people have commented on a noticeable improvement in the writing as well, and I can honestly see why. The stories don't seem just mailed in and completely pointless now (like they did from around #65-110). Most were downright horrible, and Bagley's art was even then turning out to be repetitive and mostly boring. He's a more than competent artist (I often wonder if he's ever been late, gotta give Bagley the credit there), I just got sick of his art after about 50 issues or so. I'm glad to see Immonen on the title, I think it was a wise choice. I really enjoy his style.

Anyway, I think Bendis has certainly tightened up his writing, combined with Immonen on art, and I now look forward to USM each month once again.

How strange is it that one year ago Ultimates 2 was the best Ultimate title, Ultimate Spider-Man pretty much one of the suckiest? Now, its opposite: Ultimate Spider-Man (along with UXM) are pretty good, fun reads; UFF is usually pretty bland and mediocre, but otherwise ok; the first issue of Ultimates 3 was honestly the worst issue in Ultimate Marvel history. It makes Ultimate Iron Man look like the Watchmen of Ultimate comics. Seriously, its that bad. All in one year, its all been switched! This crazy comic business and their piss-poor editorial decisions are hurting my brain!

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

You just have to remember what Millar did with the Ultimates titles. He has the team fight one of their own (Hulk, Thor). He brings in the Hulk at the end to even the odds. He has an over the top battle sequence to make the story epic. Bendis did the same, kind of.
Bendis did kill off people he gave us more shock by killing both goblins (maybe...). He always knows how to give emotional issues. Really this was like Ultimate Six without the six, without Fury, and Harry playing a more important role

While the formula may be basically the same, there is still a substantial difference in the stories themselves. Same formula, maybe, but Bendis is injecting life into his characters again, making them more interesting and attractive to the reader. Despite the "Manishevitz" line (I also cringed at that), I really enjoyed this issue, and have steadily been doing so since Immonen came on. Obviously thats a large part due to Immonen, but Bendis' writing has obviously gotten better somehow.

Many people have commented on a noticeable improvement in the writing as well, and I can honestly see why. The stories don't seem just mailed in and completely pointless now (like they did from around #65-110). Most were downright horrible, and Bagley's art was even then turning out to be repetitive and mostly boring. He's a more than competent artist (I often wonder if he's ever been late, gotta give Bagley the credit there), I just got sick of his art after about 50 issues or so. I'm glad to see Immonen on the title, I think it was a wise choice. I really enjoy his style.

While I found DEATH OF A GOBLIN rather bland but at points, pretty cool, I didn't bring up the ULTIMATE SIX comparison to make the story sound worse, but I brought it up because I didn't understand VVD's comment of how this was "EXACTLY what the comic needs" - simply because, the comic had this before, and it didn't need it (it was rather bland and dull). I'm basically trying to understand VVD's comment, not say, "The arc sucked".

Anyway, I think Bendis has certainly tightened up his writing, combined with Immonen on art, and I now look forward to USM each month once again.

Immonen has really tightened Bendis. Bendis did a clever thing in THE TALK issue; he had May and Peter (drawn by Bagely) gabber as normal, then, when Immonen draws the fight with Spot - he puts all the text to the side so all we have is Immonen's art, essentially going, "THIS GUY IS THE NEW ARTIST SO GET USED TO HIM - ISN'T HE GREAT TOO?" He did it subtly, and he did it well.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

While I found DEATH OF A GOBLIN rather bland but at points, pretty cool, I didn't bring up the ULTIMATE SIX comparison to make the story sound worse, but I brought it up because I didn't understand VVD's comment of how this was "EXACTLY what the comic needs" - simply because, the comic had this before, and it didn't need it (it was rather bland and dull). I'm basically trying to understand VVD's comment, not say, "The arc sucked".

Ah, see I misunderstood you. My bad.

Immonen has really tightened Bendis. Bendis did a clever thing in THE TALK issue; he had May and Peter (drawn by Bagely) gabber as normal, then, when Immonen draws the fight with Spot - he puts all the text to the side so all we have is Immonen's art, essentially going, "THIS GUY IS THE NEW ARTIST SO GET USED TO HIM - ISN'T HE GREAT TOO?" He did it subtly, and he did it well.

Indeed.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I like USM speaking jewish slang.




Anyone else it doesn't work.


I use Oy now.

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

While I found DEATH OF A GOBLIN rather bland but at points, pretty cool, I

I agree with this. I do see the writing any better or anywhere near the way it was, just that past arcs were very bad, and the dialog was horrible. I think this is much better only because its a story Bendis have been holding. He definitely wanted to continue the Goblin story like this, probably back in Hobgoblin, but wanted to wait till a little after the clone saga. So in between the "big events" we get a bunch of filler so by comparison it seems better.

And I don't mind Peter saying Oy vey once in a while but it feels like soon Peter is just going to be only speaking Hebrew, which doesn't suit the character in my opinion.

 

[interpol]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

While I found DEATH OF A GOBLIN rather bland but at points, pretty cool, I didn't bring up the ULTIMATE SIX comparison to make the story sound worse, but I brought it up because I didn't understand VVD's comment of how this was "EXACTLY what the comic needs" - simply because, the comic had this before, and it didn't need it (it was rather bland and dull). I'm basically trying to understand VVD's comment, not say, "The arc sucked".

Sorry I misunderstood also, but the whole theendgoodbye is correct but it can be brought up later. Gwen death got a whole other issue but i'm guessing Harry will be brought up again on and off the next few issues. Also Norman being dead is still in the open, he could still wake up on the autopsy table.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Both probably will at some point. Do they also have advanced healing factors here?

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

I like USM speaking jewish slang.

Anyone else it doesn't work.

I use Oy now.

Yeah, I never really understood this complaint. My parents use Yiddish (Not Hebrew) slang all the time and they're not Jewish. They did grow up in the same area Peter lives, though, which is why I understand it.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

There's a difference between using Yiddish and being Jewish.

Spidey saying "Oy vey" every now and again is okay.

Spidey calling people "shmendrick" and yelling "manesevitch" is not. These are not mainstream Yiddish words. Spidey is not brought up in a Jewish community. He has no Jewish friends, relatives, or neighbours. He spends most of his time, fighting criminals, or talking to caucasian people who aren't Jewish.

It doesn't make any sense he'd even know these words.

As I say, I don't mind Spidey doing the occassional yiddish remark. It's fine. It's New York. But... Bendis sometimes takes it too far.

 

[E]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

Both probably will at some point. Do they also have advanced healing factors here?

I believe so.

Boy, what a disappointing end to an otherwise good arc. I hate sensationalism.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #117 (Spoilers)

There's a difference between using Yiddish and being Jewish.

Spidey saying "Oy vey" every now and again is okay.

Spidey calling people "shmendrick" and yelling "manesevitch" is not. These are not mainstream Yiddish words. Spidey is not brought up in a Jewish community. He has no Jewish friends, relatives, or neighbours. He spends most of his time, fighting criminals, or talking to caucasian people who aren't Jewish.

It doesn't make any sense he'd even know these words.

As I say, I don't mind Spidey doing the occassional yiddish remark. It's fine. It's New York. But... Bendis sometimes takes it too far.

You see.


I now know those words. You know why, because I read it somewhere.




Why couldn't he of done the same? Or seen it on tv?