I got it too. It does read a lot better as a trade. I couldn't get into it when the issues were coming out but (partly thanks to Ice) I re-read it and something just clicked with me. The backup origin stories punctuate the main story really well.
X-Men: Deadly Genesis (Discussion Spoilers)
- Thread starter Ice
- Start date
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Wha-wha, wha wha wha?E said:
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Ah. You scared me there.E said:
I was a like, "I didn't mean to put anyone off... :cry:."
MaxwellSmart
Well-Known Member
It still gets me how people can be unimpressed with this mini and Brubaker's Uncanny run. Deadly Genesis was great and Brubaker deserves to be recognized for doing such a great job creating an original character like Vulcan. He just kicks ***.
Friday
Well-Known Member
Well, I just read the HC of this and enjoyed it a good bit. Not nearly as much as say Bru's Daredevil or Sleeper, but deffinatly more than his Authority run. The Backups did a great job as chapter breaks, and it set up his Uncanney run very nicely. I was wondering why Vulcan would be going after the shi'ar, now I know.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
No, Gambit is NOT the third Summers brothers. It was a rumor that he was, but it's false. Even the solits for the previews said the 3rd Summers brother was going to be revealed, meaning Vulcan.
What you're thinking of is from X-Men: The End, a mini that is non-cannon. In other words, what's there isn't true to X-Men mytho, it's just a possible outcome of a possible future for the X-Men.
Ultimate MJ
Well-Known Member
Right. Except that as I understand it, the shared past of the X Men: The End books IS canon. The point at which The End comics and 616 diverge is in the future...so the past is the same. Since the end was the ending of the 616 x men, by definition it must be the future of the 616 x men.
And in that hypothetical future, it was established that in the past (i.e. the SHARED past), Gambit is the third Summers brother. Hence Gambit is the 3rd Summers brother in 616, but nobody will ever find that out in 616. Gambit wasnt MADE the third Summers brother in the future, he already was the third summers brother.
Its canon until I read an editorial statement saying otherwise.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
No, non of the THE END comics are cannon. It's like the UMTU #9 issue. NON-CANNON. You're being misguided by something that is wrong. No future is set in stone anyways. Like Earth X-> NON. CANNON.
Ultimate MJ
Well-Known Member
I agree that the events that happen within The End comics are non canon.
But The End comics are hypothetical ends to characters within the 616 universe. Its not like the Marvel Zombies universe, where its obviously a different universe than 616 (i.e. Colonel Amrica). This is the hypothetical conclusion of the current 616 universe, after some diverging event happens (that happens in the future).
But the PAST of the End universe is the same as 616. Anything that happens in The End is non canonical, but any reference to the shared past IS canonical. At least as I see it.
I see your point, which is (I think) that the universes are different, so they dont share a past. I disagree with this, but short of a statement from Marvel we will have to agree to disagree about the number of Summer Brothers.
But The End comics are hypothetical ends to characters within the 616 universe. Its not like the Marvel Zombies universe, where its obviously a different universe than 616 (i.e. Colonel Amrica). This is the hypothetical conclusion of the current 616 universe, after some diverging event happens (that happens in the future).
But the PAST of the End universe is the same as 616. Anything that happens in The End is non canonical, but any reference to the shared past IS canonical. At least as I see it.
I see your point, which is (I think) that the universes are different, so they dont share a past. I disagree with this, but short of a statement from Marvel we will have to agree to disagree about the number of Summer Brothers.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Where are you getting that about not having a shared past? Where have youseen me say anything loike that.
And again, there are no 4 summer brothers. Theres nothing to agree to disagree on. Do you pick up the Marvel Previews, or read intereviews? When the 4th issue I think it was, or 3rd...whichever, they said in the marvel previews it was the 3rd brother, not 4th. And even that was confirmed by Brubaker (you know, the writer?) in an interview a long time ago it was the THIRD. THIRD, NOT FOURTH.
It was only written that Gambit was because that's who Claremont wanted it to be and was going to make him. But since you agree that it's non cannon, than you should agree that nothing that happens counts. It's just like a "What If?" with a different title.
He has a point, Ice - that Gambit didn't *become* the 3rd Summers brother in "The End". Since the established past of the book happened in regular 616 continuity and Gambit as Summers #3 was *revealed* in an alternate future, it always has been true, and therefore is true whether The End happens or not. Same is true for Earth X. It's an alternate future, but based on established, in-continuity past.
If it has been established that the entirety of "The End", including the past, happens in an alternate universe or something, than the point is moot. As far as I know that's not the case.
This is why they shouldn't screw with alternate timelines and futures...crap stories affect the regular ones even when they try to provide an out for them not to.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
By that logic, there's 5 Summers brothers because there was someone else who had the same track as Gambit then for being a Summer's brother.
I don't agree with that. Gambit was made the 3rd summers brother in a non-cannon comic, simple as that. There was none. It was is it him or is it that guy? Claremont just chose him to be it in this alternate place.
I don't agree with that. Gambit was made the 3rd summers brother in a non-cannon comic, simple as that. There was none. It was is it him or is it that guy? Claremont just chose him to be it in this alternate place.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
you guys might be on to something their
but you guys musn't forget ADAM X!! in these equations
UMJ said it; I just agreed. It's a very valid point.
The reveal isn't canon, and thus any information spat out in the series is suspect. Its a pretty stupid freaking plotline anyway - seriously, randomly appearing new siblings? Lazy writing. Secret connections to each other's past? Even lazier - and the reason it isn't clear who it is is that Marvel suck *** and couldn't make up their own minds when they were writing it. So there's stuff that says its Gambit, stuff that says its Cable (which was subsequently ignored so he could be Scott's Daddybaby), stuff that says its Cannonball and stuff that says its this weirdo loser random Shi'ar character who made blood explode or something stupid.
It'd be nice if they wrapped it up and then never spoke about it again like they do with half their other plotlines, but since The End, interesting in some ways as it was, was basically Claremont talking out his *** without about any editorial control or, well, caring, everything that happened there is probably fine, as long as you don't think about it too much.
It'd be nice if they wrapped it up and then never spoke about it again like they do with half their other plotlines, but since The End, interesting in some ways as it was, was basically Claremont talking out his *** without about any editorial control or, well, caring, everything that happened there is probably fine, as long as you don't think about it too much.
Ultimate MJ
Well-Known Member
I see this point, and its a good one, but I still disagree. I feel that even if the comic is non-canon, its revealing canonical information about a shared past. This is starting to sound asinine. Wheres that Marvel Handbook guy when we need him?
Whoa.. Well said.
I guess I inferred that from your argument. The way I see it, if they share a past, any flahsbacks in The End happened in 616.ice said:
It was revealed that in the past of The End's universe, Sinister cloned a third Summers brother, Gambit (I think this was the story, I forget though...?). So, if The End and 616 share a past, then in 616, Gambit is a Summers brother. I'm not sure how you could argue with that other than to say that they don't share a past. Maybe I just don't see your point, please explain.
Fine. Vulcan is the third and Gambit is the fourth (since he hasnt been revealed yet). Same thing.ice said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.. Are you saying that Marvel introduced a third Summers brother in a previous storyline? If so thats hillarious.
Anyways, I think both arguments have basis, but I'm sticking to my guns. I agree with what Cad said, I'm tired of Marvel thinking that new Summers relatives being constantly introduced is good storytelling.
Its quite simple. You say that The End is an AU that splits of sometime, Ice is saying its not connected at all. The answer is that nobody knows because Claremont is mental.
Oh they did it. There's an article on UXM.net somewhere, but I can't really be arsed to search for it now. Basically, the Summers were flying around in a plane for no apparent reason when they were attacked by aliens for no apparent reason. Because the Summers Senior were completely retarded and had inexplicably only packed a single parachute, they strapped both kids in (BRILLIANT IDEAS, this family. No wonder their kids are so damn stupid) and Scott was dropped on his head, which is why he can't control his powers. Because his brain has been bruised for, oh, thirty years or so now.
Meanwhile, their parents paid the price for their appalling stupidity and were carried off to be anal probed or whatever the hell it was the aliens wanted with some boring losers who they'd snatched for no apparent reason. Except somehow, Daddy-Summers was able to do ...something and ended up as a space pirate on a magical spaceship with a random cat-girl girlfriend Nobody ever got around to shooting him in the head a lot, like I hoped ever since I found out he existed.
Their mother, apparently not interesting enough to be a pirate, suffered the very post-feminist fate of being taken to the harem. I dunno, maybe she wasn't hot enough to be a pirate or something, whatever. She presumably spent what remained of her life their sleeping with the enemy or, God, I don't know, breakdancing her way to intergalactic stardom. Basically nobody ever got around to making something stupid up, except for when she popped out a half-alien baby with possibly the stupidest codename ever. Who is probably the third Summers brother, in the least retarded non-cloning way.
The fact I just said that the half-alien lovechild of a nonsensical harem girl who is really married to a space-pirate was the most sensible option actually makes me want to cry or vomit a little. I really hate this franchise sometimes.
Then they kind of went "Hey, this idea sort of sucks!" and tried to make it Cable, Cannonball, Gambit, Apocalypse, and just about every lame-*** F-list character off the street before just giving the hell up and trying to ignore it away.
Summers are just the worst. Anyone's random relatives are ****. Actual relatives? I can deal with. But "Oh look, Wolverine has a brother that was never mentioned before and will never be mentioned again but is really really important" is not a good story. The bull**** plots are the absolute ****tiest part of the x-franchise.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
I love how they put in the info for the cat girl, 'secretes mind altering phermones during sex'
"Wait, we need to get out of here."
"Quick, have sex with me so I can control their minds!"
"LOLROFLOMG!"
"Wait, we need to get out of here."
"Quick, have sex with me so I can control their minds!"
"LOLROFLOMG!"
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I'd hug you if I could Cad. I'd hug you if I could.
