Miracleman series discussion (spoilers)

Rich Johnston is all over the Marvel/Marvelman deal.

Marvelman - The OTHER Bid

The negotiations took over two years, and contracts between the Anons and Emotiv were drawn up three weeks before the Marvel announcement, when suddenly Emotiv stopped returning calls and e-mails to the Anons. This was after they asked about a contract clause - in that they would have had to sign a statement that Emotiv were not responsible for the legal rights that the buyer would or would not buy. So if there was a subsequent challenge to them, the buyer not the seller would be responsible for all legal fees to fight it.

One aspect of this was the name of the character possibly infringing Marvel's trademark. And with Todd McFarlane making legal noises, there was even a possibility from Emotiv that the character would would be renamed again to Masterman.
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:sick:
 
It goes like this:

"I WANT TO GET MONEY FROM MIRACLEMAN EVEN THOUGH I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SERIES! I DESERVE THE MONEY BECAUSE I WANT IT RARGH!"

The idea that Marvel, the company that forced Miracleman to change his name from Marvelman is publishing any of it is a ****ing irony.
 
Miracleman > Marvelman > Garth Ennis mocking Alan Moore and calling it Marmalademan > Masterman.
 
So for my birthday I treated myself to the first 13 issues of Miracleman and several of the spin off titles (Miracleman 3D #1, Miracleman Family #1-2, Apochrypha #1-3). I also snagged a copy of Warrior Summer Special which features a never reprinted Miracleman tale by Moore. I haven't recieved the issue yet so I'm not sure if it fits into the existing continuity, or if its more of a "what if?" tale (only $4 too...). I'm going to read one per day while I save up for the next couple weeks to blow a wad on the ridiculously expensive #15.

Anyway, I read #1 last night. Really good. Loved the contrast of the 50's era (corny innocence and light-hearted fun) to the darker 80's era. Loved the foreshadowing of later plot-lines even this early on (Young Miracleman's two bodies being fused together as a result of the nuclear explosion). Loved the scenes of Moran's wife--forgot her name--questioning and wondering about the Mike/Miracleman switch. Loved the building suspense of the scene at Johnny Bates' office before his reveal of still having his powers. Loved it all.

I'm going to read #2 tonight, and do my best not to jump in and keep reading #3, 4, and so on. I want to keep it at one per day so I can really digest each issue, and think it over while I'm bored at work the next day. As said, ideally, this will allow me time to save up for the more expensive issues that make up the last half of the series (#15 especially), as the Gaiman issues are kind of expensive in their own right (on average about $10-20 each from what I found on Ebay). I guess if worse comes to worse I could torrent the missing issues.

But yeah, I'm really excited to be reading this. I'd given it a try a few years back, downloading the issues, but I could barely make out the small text in the bubbles and gave up on it after the 12th issue. Originally printed in a larger, magazine/digest size page (when it was originally in Warrior), then shrunk down to fit the comic book format (when printed as Miracleman by Eclipse), and then finally shrunk even more to be viewable on my laptop's screen makes torrents of the series simply a pain in the *** to read (having to use a magnifier for every word bubble and to make out details of the art is annoying). So much better in the actual issues.
 
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Bass said:
Glad you're enjoying it!
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I am. I couldn't wait, however, and went ahead and read #1-9 over the weekend (damn my impatience!).

I had one problem, and it was with issue #6. It concerns the transformation of Miracledog...why did it take so long for Mike Moran to figure out how to transform Miracledog back to the regular dog? I mean, it seemed obvious from the start considering thats how he'd defeated Kid Miracleman in issue #2, and he clearly heard Gargunza use the word "Steppenwolf" to transform the dog...why'd it take losing two fingers and almost his life to figure that out? And the same goes for Cream...he's a smart guy who's obviously survived as long as he has doing what he does due to that intelligence...was using the word that transformed the dog into Miracledog really beyond him? It seems beneath Moore to make such an obvious oversight, and definitly beneath the character of Miracleman/Mike Moran. Even arguing the point that Mike is human and this was a very human mistake to make (and thereby, Moore purposely did it to illustrate that) seems like a weak argument. I suppose it did do a worthy job of illustrating the differences between regular, human Mike and the godly, otherworldly Miracleman, but it just didn't sit right with me.

Loved the gradual reveal of Cream's death. Awesome.

I'm looking forward to finishing up Moore's run.

My question is, do you think Moore accurately reflected humanity's evolution to a god with the character? How does he do this? How does a God think? How does a God feel (or do they at all)? How can Moore accurately convey those things in a comic, and does he? Is it gradual, or immediate? Is there anything of humanity left in him once he gets there? These are what I'm most interested in finding out as I approach the end of his run, and I'm just as excited to see how Gaiman picked up those threads and continued them in his issues.
 
Miracleman had no problem working out "Steppenwolf" would switch off Miracledog.

Mike Moran was too scared and not bright enough to work it out any faster than he did.

Remember, Miracleman thinks better than Mike too.

I think Moore conveyed it brilliantly here and with Doc Manhattan in WATCHMEN. No, I do not know how he did it.
 
Bass said:
Miracleman had no problem working out "Steppenwolf" would switch off Miracledog.

Mike Moran was too scared and not bright enough to work it out any faster than he did.

Remember, Miracleman thinks better than Mike too.

I think Moore conveyed it brilliantly here and with Doc Manhattan in WATCHMEN. No, I do not know how he did it.
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I know, but I still think it was a bit too "easy", somwhat of a cop-out if you will. It makes sense, but it doesn't, you know?

I guess its a moot point.

Read the 3 Apochrypha issues last night, and they have me pretty excited for Gaiman's run. Why haven't you given his issues a try, Bass? I mean, I know Moore's run was amazing, but Gaiman seems to have some pretty interesting ideas and concepts for the character up his sleeve. And this was apparent just from the bits of Apochrypha he did--which were really only the bookends, as other authors/artists did the middle stories, much like the Miracleman 3D issue, which was pretty lame, admittedly. The 3D stuff gave me a headache after the first 3 pages, and I gave up and just read the rest without the stupid glasses.

So far, I've read #1-7, 9-10, and Apochrypha #1-3 (and the horrendous 3D issue). Very interested to read Moore's ending (#11-16), and the beginning of Gaiman's run (#17-22). And God help me, I really hope Marvel gets the legal **** together enough to finish out Gaiman's run. It'd really be spitting in the collective eye of comic fans not to finish this story. It really is one of those rare tales that DOES need to be told (and snifflepuss to you Bass for holding to the opinion that Moore's run is all thats worth reading).

One question (and I don't care about spoilers, obvious from the asking): Lear is Miraclewoman...but who is Rebbeck?
 
I did read Gaiman's run.

It was okay, but I can hardly remember of any of it. I remember that when I was reading it, I was upset. Not because it's bad, it certainly wasn't that at ALL. It was because I didn't want to know any more about the characters or see them do anything else. It was done. For me, at least.

The fact I can hardly remember any of it, is quite pleasing.

I wish I could do that for THE SOPRANOS and THE MATRIX.
 
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Bass said:
I did read Gaiman's run.
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My mistake.

It was okay, but I can hardly remember of any of it. I remember that when I was reading it, I was upset. Not because it's bad, it certainly wasn't that at ALL. It was because I didn't want to know any more about the characters or see them do anything else. It was done. For me, at least.
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See, I've found the little bit I've read of it to be very interesting, mainly because Gaiman wasn't really focusing on Miracleman so much as the world around him (as a result of him). This is the stuff I find interesting: Miracleman's "utopian" world and the different views of it (the Bates followers, the regular people, etc).

In fact, in the sense of you not wanting to learn more about Miracleman, Gaiman's run seems almost exactly what you'd want since (at least the first book) focuses on everyone BUT Miracleman.

Regardless, I don't really know what I'm talking about since I've only just begun Gaiman's run, but I just really enjoy his writing style so far (this is the first thing I've ever read of Gaiman's). Its serious and dark, but in a much different vein than Moore's writing style. I guess Gaiman's run is less personal than Moore's since it jumps from character to character, but I feel it gives a better understanding and scope of the world they've created by looking outside of just Miracleman and his immediate supporting cast.

In the end, Moore's is obviously the definitive run, but as said, I think Gaiman deserves some credit for what he brought to the table.

The fact I can hardly remember any of it, is quite pleasing.

I wish I could do that for THE SOPRANOS and THE MATRIX.
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The Sopranos is the most over-rated television show ever. The Matrix should have been a stand-alone movie, not a trilogy.

But come on, thats no fair comparing Sopranos/Matrix to Gaiman's run. The Matrix? Really?
 
DIrishB said:
My mistake.



See, I've found the little bit I've read of it to be very interesting, mainly because Gaiman wasn't really focusing on Miracleman so much as the world around him (as a result of him). This is the stuff I find interesting: Miracleman's "utopian" world and the different views of it (the Bates followers, the regular people, etc).

In fact, in the sense of you not wanting to learn more about Miracleman, Gaiman's run seems almost exactly what you'd want since (at least the first book) focuses on everyone BUT Miracleman.

Regardless, I don't really know what I'm talking about since I've only just begun Gaiman's run, but I just really enjoy his writing style so far (this is the first thing I've ever read of Gaiman's). Its serious and dark, but in a much different vein than Moore's writing style. I guess Gaiman's run is less personal than Moore's since it jumps from character to character, but I feel it gives a better understanding and scope of the world they've created by looking outside of just Miracleman and his immediate supporting cast.

In the end, Moore's is obviously the definitive run, but as said, I think Gaiman deserves some credit for what he brought to the table.



The Sopranos is the most over-rated television show ever. The Matrix should have been a stand-alone movie, not a trilogy.

But come on, thats no fair comparing Sopranos/Matrix to Gaiman's run. The Matrix? Really?
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Could not agree with you any more than I do right now.
 
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