Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
I do recall hearing DC wanted to change the ending.
Final Crisis series discussion [spoilers]
- Thread starter Bass
- Start date
I do recall hearing DC wanted to change the ending.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Well Morrison himself said that he didn't make any changes to what he turned in except for one thing near the end that DC specifically asked for.
He didn't say what that was, but I'm assuming it's the Aquaman scene.
Ninja4peace
Well-Known Member
I hadn't really thought about it, but i didn't think that this had been editorialised.
I really liked it, it was just so big. Especially the end, i love that new monitor character when he was just summoning whatever. This is the biggest event possible - the story of all their stories. I can't see how it would be any bigger, sure blackest night will prob be better and kick more ***, but it'll still be predominantly green lanterns and in the realms of normality for superhero stories. This was just insane.
and i wasn't really put off by that many time jumps people said there were, i hadn't really noticed until it was pointed out here.
I really liked it, it was just so big. Especially the end, i love that new monitor character when he was just summoning whatever. This is the biggest event possible - the story of all their stories. I can't see how it would be any bigger, sure blackest night will prob be better and kick more ***, but it'll still be predominantly green lanterns and in the realms of normality for superhero stories. This was just insane.
and i wasn't really put off by that many time jumps people said there were, i hadn't really noticed until it was pointed out here.
Willverine
Well-Known Member
I just read #7 and yeah, I'm pretty lost. I'll have to re-read the whole series if I want to understand just what the hell happened. I hope. But I'm withholding final judgment until I've done that.
I re-read the whole thing yesterday and I was totally lost as well. A shame too, because it wasn't like it was poorly written. And I think my lost-ness might be different from hardcore DC readers. I don't read a lot of DC books and have only a very basic understanding of things like the Green Lantern Corps and Darkseid. So anything I didn't get was probably due to that.
I REALLY liked the GL Corps. issue where Hal is brought to trial. Very nice.
I liked JG Jones' art but didn't care for the others.
As for the implications, they are all pretty interesting, particularly, of course, Batman being stuck back in time.
Being a huge Seven Soldiers fan it was awesome to see Frankenstein and Mister Miracle in action.
I REALLY liked the GL Corps. issue where Hal is brought to trial. Very nice.
I liked JG Jones' art but didn't care for the others.
As for the implications, they are all pretty interesting, particularly, of course, Batman being stuck back in time.
Being a huge Seven Soldiers fan it was awesome to see Frankenstein and Mister Miracle in action.
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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Huh...
So I've been like five weeks behind in comics and only just got to read the final two issues of Final Crisis this morning. I didn't hate it but I didn't love it either.
The series has brought up lots of interesting ideas. Whenever you read a Grant Morrison comic, you know you're going to get some ****ed up originality. Which is a good thing. Unfortunately (and this is a problem I've had with Morrison before) he sometimes does not know how to execute these ideas. So we get left with clumps of confusion and mess. This is what Final Crisis seems to be. Whether due to outside interference, delays, art changes, whatever, it seems this had to be somewhat of a disaster - it had too many things against it from the beginning.
Oh well. Final Crisis - a flawed work, but an interesting one nonetheless. I think it will be a lot better when read all at once.
I do think Morrison might have had too much on his plate though - Batman RIP, Final Crisis and All Star Superman? Three potentially brilliant works, but maybe one had to be weaker than the others? All Star Superman is amazing. I also thought RIP was genuinely a superb read. Final Crisis... maybe it was too big for it's own good. I do think 12 issues would have helped it's breathing room but it would probably never have finished.
Well. I'm glad it's over.
So I've been like five weeks behind in comics and only just got to read the final two issues of Final Crisis this morning. I didn't hate it but I didn't love it either.
The series has brought up lots of interesting ideas. Whenever you read a Grant Morrison comic, you know you're going to get some ****ed up originality. Which is a good thing. Unfortunately (and this is a problem I've had with Morrison before) he sometimes does not know how to execute these ideas. So we get left with clumps of confusion and mess. This is what Final Crisis seems to be. Whether due to outside interference, delays, art changes, whatever, it seems this had to be somewhat of a disaster - it had too many things against it from the beginning.
Oh well. Final Crisis - a flawed work, but an interesting one nonetheless. I think it will be a lot better when read all at once.
I do think Morrison might have had too much on his plate though - Batman RIP, Final Crisis and All Star Superman? Three potentially brilliant works, but maybe one had to be weaker than the others? All Star Superman is amazing. I also thought RIP was genuinely a superb read. Final Crisis... maybe it was too big for it's own good. I do think 12 issues would have helped it's breathing room but it would probably never have finished.
Well. I'm glad it's over.
Willverine
Well-Known Member
OK, so I read the whole damn series again....
Can someone fill me in on this? It still doesn't make any sense to me. WTF were all the shenanigans at the end? It's like Bass said, how the **** are you going to introduce some new big bad at the very end of the series? Where was the big big climax with Darkseid? I think Morrison needs a break.
No way he's getting off the hook on this one just because he's Grant Morrison. In all things, there comes a point where you hit a wall and he just hit it. Time to take a vacation and get some new ideas... and figuring out that sometimes being "arty" sucks. I was expecting Darkseid to get his head punched in half, not Mandrakk the corn-rowed vampire coming out of nowhere like he's been the bane of the DCU for the span of it's history.
Secret Invasion sucked, but it's still better than this. Plus, we didn't need to be introduced to Norman Osborn.
Can someone fill me in on this? It still doesn't make any sense to me. WTF were all the shenanigans at the end? It's like Bass said, how the **** are you going to introduce some new big bad at the very end of the series? Where was the big big climax with Darkseid? I think Morrison needs a break.
No way he's getting off the hook on this one just because he's Grant Morrison. In all things, there comes a point where you hit a wall and he just hit it. Time to take a vacation and get some new ideas... and figuring out that sometimes being "arty" sucks. I was expecting Darkseid to get his head punched in half, not Mandrakk the corn-rowed vampire coming out of nowhere like he's been the bane of the DCU for the span of it's history.
Secret Invasion sucked, but it's still better than this. Plus, we didn't need to be introduced to Norman Osborn.
Ninja4peace
Well-Known Member
Mandrakk was introduced in the superman beyond, where you find out every universe has it's own crisis going on, the dcu has Darkseid, wildstorm has number of the beast, etc. I think this really is a 12 issue crisis (or 11 issues)but you have to include things like superman beyond, Last rites, submit. Morrison gave a read order for his issues in one of the newsarama interviews. Hopefully it's collected like that too.
The big bad of darkseid was faced off against batman in #6 then again in #7 he wasn't brushed to one side particularly...well maybe a little, but that's just cuz then end of this got so epic.
Morrison thinks morrison needs a break. He's done with superheros for now...all apart from batman, which will be quite different now anyway.
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Willverine
Well-Known Member
OK, well I didn't read Superman Beyond. Don't think I needed to, either, because from all the previews to Final Crisis I was to understand that it would pretty much be a self-contained mini. So apparently that's BS. Mandrakk still sucks. Mandrakk the Corn Rowed Vampire=CRAP. As I said, at least we (the readers) didn't need to be introduced to Norman Osborn. We knew who he was a long, long time ago. Now all we have to do is accept the implications of him being the "hero" of Secret Invasion. As far as Mandrakk goes, I could care less about this character. Darkseid should have been THE big bad of Final Crisis, period. Not the big bad who gets beaten pretty uneventfully so Mandrakk can show up and make people like myself say "who gives a rat's *** about this guy?" Because I don't, and I won't. And I doubt most of DC's readers will. Mandrakk will be Doomsday level pretty soon, which means at one point in time he meant something (well, sort of, I guess) but then he becomes a footnote and pops up from time to time just to get beaten down.
And when the hell did this ending get "so epic", Ninja? If epic suddenly means "stupid" then I see your point. If not, please explain. This was stupid.
And yes, thank the maker that Morrison thinks Morrison needs a break. At least he's not pulling a Bendis or Loeb by thinking he should just keep going even after he's run out of ideas.
I know a lot of you liked Final Crisis and Batman: RIP but I think both of them sucked... Just craptastic from start (or at least middle, because I kind of liked the first 4 issues of FC) to finish. I see both as Morrison hitting the wall.
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thee great one
Master of TOG-fu.
I can see someone not liking Final Crisis, but I loved RIP.
Just to make sure I completely understand what happened with Batman - please correct me if this is wrong: Darkseid threw the Omega Sanction at him and, just like Mister Miracle, he escaped, but whereas Mister Miracle escaped to the present (or near future depending on how you look at it), Batman escaped to the very distant past.
Is that right?
Is that right?
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Willverine is as wrong as wrong can be. More later.
No, I think Batman is still trapped in the Omega Sanction. The concept of the Sanction is that it projects you through an increasingly dour succession of lives in non-chronological time. So Batman's still at the mercy of the Sanction right now.
But, y'know, if anyone's prepared to escape it, it would be Batman.
No, I think Batman is still trapped in the Omega Sanction. The concept of the Sanction is that it projects you through an increasingly dour succession of lives in non-chronological time. So Batman's still at the mercy of the Sanction right now.
But, y'know, if anyone's prepared to escape it, it would be Batman.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Yeah, I recall reading something someone wrote about this, though I can't remember where. Batman will be living out lifetimes throughout different periods of history. He pointed out that at the end of RIP Batman had shown he's basically capable of over coming anything, even preparing a back up personality in case of a mental attack. And how someone like Superman would give up after 20 lives, Batman is the only character could keep going.
I wonder if Alfred and the gang will announce Bruce Wayne as dead
Willverine
Well-Known Member
Sorry I forgot to run my opinion by you before I submitted it to the rest of the world. I still don't like how it ended up.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
This should be settled by a Hell in the Cell match.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
It's cool. Next time, just send a request to my secretary a week in advance.
J. Agamemnon
Well-Known Member
Is that the same one who keeps declining your obvious sexual advances? But then gave up because a raise was worth more than her dignity?
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
That was an old rumor he ran. I don't think he's trying to suggest that actually happened.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
I do remember hearing that
