Justice League - The New 52 (Geoff Johns) (spoilers)

[Ultimate Houde]

Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

I found an advanced copy of this online.

I found it boring. It's like I'm rewitnessing (Is that a word) origins of these characters all over again. It's so annoying that we have to go over this once again. Green Lantern not knowing Batman was normal? Darkseid back all over again?

Maybe this whole thing is a curveball, and our heroes have been transported to the Fifth World or something, but I doubt it. It's a complete reboot.

I'm more interested in the side titles, Resurrection Man, Animal Man, Justice League Dark and Blackhawks.

*sigh*

I'll PM the link to those who want it. Ice and ProjectX2 have it as well.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

For what is supposed to be DC's big title it's very underwhelming - I read the whole thing in less than five minutes. I did like the interaction between Batman and Green Lantern and the hints to the New Gods but the rest was disappointing. I expected a lot more from this.

The whole "reboot/revamp" thing is going to get very confusing when we've got titles coming out that are completely new and fresh and other titles coming out that are just continuations of previous continuity. You've got to have one or the other otherwise it's too inconsistent.

I hope the other DC titles will be more impressive.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Yep.

That's exactly what I was expecting from a Johns/Lee Justice League relaunch.

 

[E]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

I read it...I thought it was pretty good, actually. It's majorly decompressed, and I really think that is a good thing. Don't assume everyone knows everything, and build this completely from the ground up.

I saw a review on Bleeding Cool that criticized the lack of...well, just about everyone except Green Lantern and Batman. So what? Why try and cram everything into it at this point, when you are showing how things are built up?

I thought it was fine.

The whole "reboot/revamp" thing is going to get very confusing when we've got titles coming out that are completely new and fresh and other titles coming out that are just continuations of previous continuity. You've got to have one or the other otherwise it's too inconsistent.

...but I agree with this, and I hope that it is very clear what is being kept and what isn't continuity-wise. Right now it's very unclear, not because of Justice League #1 per se but more with Flashpoint #5. On the first read-through it really seemed to me at the end that everything was back to normal. There's no connection with Justice League #1 and Flashpoint #5. My understanding was that Flashpoint #5 would be the reboot and Justice League #1 would be the rebuilding.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

So I just read Flashpoint #5, and E is right, there is no connectivity between the two comics.

The ending of Flashpoint does not really show a new universe. Flash knows who Batman is, Batman isn't plussed by that fact. The only discernible difference is there costumes.

Also, random godlike being girl is the copout they need if this new 52 thing doesn't work.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

The scene at the end of Flashpoint #5 presumably takes place in the future or in the modern day where Justice League #1 takes place in the past.

The mysterious woman from Flashpoint showed up in Justice League too. And will apparently be in every new DC comic.

 

[haywire]

I don't think it was exciting but it starts off ok. Looking forward to reading the next couple issues before I really judge.

I did get a copy of the Finch variant though, which I really liked.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

I don't think it was exciting but it starts off ok. Looking forward to reading the next couple issues before I really judge.

I did get a copy of the Finch variant though, which I really liked.

See, this is the mentality that blows my mind. I just can't do that anymore. It's 20 pages that amounts to the cold opening of a TV show, for four bucks. Then a month wait to get the next piece of the story. I can't keep my interest that long and it just strikes me as a financial waste.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just sick of the floppy comics format, but this doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to draw in new readers. Then again, I guess they aren't really the target market for the book...

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

See, this is the mentality that blows my mind. I just can't do that anymore. It's 20 pages that amounts to the cold opening of a TV show, for four bucks. Then a month wait to get the next piece of the story. I can't keep my interest that long and it just strikes me as a financial waste.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just sick of the floppy comics format, but this doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to draw in new readers. Then again, I guess they aren't really the target market for the book...

This is why I've switched to only trades.

 

[Jaggyd]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

This is why I've switched to only trades.

Same.

 

[E]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

This is why I've switched to only trades.

Exactly.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

This is why I've switched to only trades.

Well, yeah, me too.

My question is, is there a feasible way to draw in new readers with the serial format?

 

[E]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Well, yeah, me too.

My question is, is there a feasible way to draw in new readers with the serial format?

Variant foil die-cut covers!

 

[mike3717]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Variant foil die-cut covers!

And there should be 5 of them that go together to make a big cover.

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Well, yeah, me too.

My question is, is there a feasible way to draw in new readers with the serial format?

kill Superman.

 

[Friday]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

This really should have been a double sized issue. With a whole 2 comics shipping from DC I don't think the price would have been an issue, and then we could have gotten a much wider introduction to the new universe.

And yeah, if you didn't know Flashpoint changed everything you weren't learning it in the comic. They even say everything back to how it was. Its sloppy.

 

[Bass]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Well, yeah, me too.

My question is, is there a feasible way to draw in new readers with the serial format?

Absolutely.

1 — Put them everywhere. No longer "collectible boutique" products, they adorn magazine racks in convenient stores.
2 — Make them cheap. $2 at the most, and that's probably pushing it.
3 — Write stories that last 20-pages, not decompressed 120-page epics with two or three major turning points that are spread out over 6 months so the pace is terminally slow.
4 — Alternatively, make a digest or anthology that is weekly, but each story has a smaller page count than normal. Instead of four separate 20-page titles, you get 5-pages of four 20-page titles every week.
5 — Make a huge, black-and-white monster digest that costs $5, filled with ads, that has a whole mess of stories in it.

To be honest, nothing is wrong with the form of a 20-page title. What's wrong is that it's a month between chapters (which is a ludicrous concept in today's instant-download world), it's more expensive than dvd movies, and it's decompressed storytelling which means if you're lucky, there is one major turning point every 20 pages.

 

[Bass]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Just read #1.

Not bad. But it feels ludicrously dated. It feels like ULTIMATE JUSTICE LEAGUE #1. I mean it's fine, and it might get better, but it's really lacking in any depth. It was cute that Lantern is so cocky, but it's really very samey.

The problem with a reboot is that you can't just redo the "how they met" story and keep it all the same. You need some level of insight into the franchise to sustain the new take. Now, it's possible there will be one and we've not seen it, but it should've been there in #1 (which, by the way, feels more like #2). For example, ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN decompressed Spidey's origin to really suck the marrow out of it, much like BATMAN BEGINS did in the cinema, allowing for a little bit more insight into the Parker family before Ben dies, and indeed, the Spidey-verse (Harry, Midtown, MJ, etc) before Spidey shows up. It's not much, but it's enough to give the series something sustainable. In THE ULTIMATES, the deceptively slow pace, sense of secret mystery, and attention to media celebrity and military functionality separated it completely from not only THE AVENGERS, but THE AUTHORITY, X-MEN, FANTASTIC FOUR, and every other teambook out there. Very original work.

This new JUSTICE LEAGUE reads like ULTIMATE X-MEN. It's not bad, but the first arc's entire purpose is "look how crazy this new world is; Superman's an *******, everyone hates superheroes" and so on, but by the end of the arc, it will be exactly as it was before the reboot. Superheroes will be friends (though with some problems, no doubt), people will love them for saving the world (but with some trepidations as the writer wishes)... just like how Wolverine was introduced as Magneto's number 1 assassin and after the first arc just reverted back to being regular Wolverine.

It's not bad, it just feels like fanfiction in that it is superficial changes that create new novelty scenes that really won't go anywhere. And, unfortunately, while that was true of ULTIMATE X-MEN, that at least was only one book in a small line, thus it felt more special, it was the first really brazen reboot, and it was side-by-side with ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN and THE ULTIMATES which were very good back then. JUSTICE LEAGUE is swamped with a number of reboots in the same universe causing continuity headaches out of the gate, it's a decade too late; the Ultimate universe has pretty much died, and the All-Star line completely failed, and it lacks anything substantively new that's also true to the property (that's the difficulty of a reboot; it's new but more true to the property than the original). In fact, this series purposely betrays its premise in order to feel 'new': it's rather inconceivable that the DCU, with characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash, would be scared of superheroes. I know JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED went there, but to do so, it first had to have Superman brainwashed by Darkseid, and then had to have them create a Justice League of dozens of heroes. And the shadow government was funded by Luthor. This was also a similar premise in JLA: THE NAIL. The idea that the government and populace would spontaneously rally against bright, beloved icons of justice, truth, and liberty as those I mention, is really rather idiotic, as both the titles I mentioned had to go to great lengths to explain why people would distrust someone like Superman or Wonder Woman. That's why it feels like fanfiction; it betrays the core elements of the series in order to give it novelty value.

It might get better, certainly ULTIMATE X-MEN got much better as it went along; even the first arc had a fantastic climax. This gives me the vibe of ULTIMATE X-MEN because of the whole "hated and feared" angle (which, is central to the X-Men franchise) and it's pacing, so it's possible it will pick up soon and actually work.

I was really pessimistic about this, but the first issue, while not good, has a level of energy that makes me wonder if it might end up working. It would be nice if it did.

 

[Gothamite]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Absolutely.

1 — Put them everywhere. No longer "collectible boutique" products, they adorn magazine racks in convenient stores.
2 — Make them cheap. $2 at the most, and that's probably pushing it.
3 — Write stories that last 20-pages, not decompressed 120-page epics with two or three major turning points that are spread out over 6 months so the pace is terminally slow.
4 — Alternatively, make a digest or anthology that is weekly, but each story has a smaller page count than normal. Instead of four separate 20-page titles, you get 5-pages of four 20-page titles every week.
5 — Make a huge, black-and-white monster digest that costs $5, filled with ads, that has a whole mess of stories in it.

To be honest, nothing is wrong with the form of a 20-page title. What's wrong is that it's a month between chapters (which is a ludicrous concept in today's instant-download world), it's more expensive than dvd movies, and it's decompressed storytelling which means if you're lucky, there is one major turning point every 20 pages.

I agree with everything except number 4. 2000AD uses this format, but I find it incredibly frustrating to read.

I'd love if the big companies made cheaper versions of their comics a year or so later, with more content but cheaper paper, in black and white with tons of ads at a lower price. There should totally be weekly or monthly comics like this but they seem to only do this sometimes. The Showcase line of paperback collections seems to be a big hit. Why not do a monthly version of that with classic issues from a year back or so?

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

I agree this should've been where they introduce the "Earth One" type books. Except use a focusing character that relates the entire DCU. And after hearing about the Ultimate Universe so much they should've bought out Mark Millar's contract to do it.