Justice League - The New 52 (Geoff Johns) (spoilers)

[Cabocomics]

Ok, so DC reboot is good for us retailers to begin with. Solid sales in store and online in first weeks. As a fan; I really enjoyed Detective 1, thought JLA 1 was a very interesting preview issue, and was intrigued by Batgirl, Green Arrow and Swamp Thing. My disappointment was probably with Action Conics 1 - I want either regular superman or smallville superman - not a combo of both which is what they look like they are trying ...

 

[Bass]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Yeah, ACTION COMICS is kinda in a nowhere land between the two.

 

[James Kennedy]

Couldnt they have gone with Geoff Johns last take on Superman? So far Ive seen three Supermen (the corniest one on Swamp Thing) and Im still waiting for the real deal

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Justice League (The New 52 Version) Spoilers

Couldnt they have gone with Geoff Johns last take on Superman? So far Ive seen three Supermen (the corniest one on Swamp Thing) and Im still waiting for the real deal

Mark Waid's is the only recent one I've enjoyed (origin wise, I enjoyed Johns take on modern day Superman)

 

[E]

I wanted to break this off from the general New 52 thread because I had a question. Has this book ever touched on the idea of the Justice League as sort of overlords like it is now (or at least the direction it seems to be going in with issue 7)? It's reminiscent of Squadron Supreme or maybe a little bit of Miracleman but the difference seems to be that the general populace is clamoring for it, rather than the JL just taking over because they feel the need to. It's an interesting take.

Also, is the Steve Trevor character completely new? I like the idea of a liason between the government and the JL and he's a good character. Him telling the government guys off was cool...I like that he's not a pushover.

I like Gene Ha but stylistically he's a lot different from Jim Lee. I get that Jim Lee can't draw this book forever but I wish they had gotten someone who is a little more like him in style.

 

[Zombipanda]

I wanted to break this off from the general New 52 thread because I had a question. Has this book ever touched on the idea of the Justice League as sort of overlords like it is now (or at least the direction it seems to be going in with issue 7)? It's reminiscent of Squadron Supreme or maybe a little bit of Miracleman but the difference seems to be that the general populace is clamoring for it, rather than the JL just taking over because they feel the need to. It's an interesting take.

Also, is the Steve Trevor character completely new? I like the idea of a liason between the government and the JL and he's a good character. Him telling the government guys off was cool...I like that he's not a pushover.

I like Gene Ha but stylistically he's a lot different from Jim Lee. I get that Jim Lee can't draw this book forever but I wish they had gotten someone who is a little more like him in style.

Steve Trevor is the OG of Wonder Woman's supporting cast. In her origin, he crash landed on Paradise Island and Wonder Woman fell in love with him and ran away to Man's World because of course she did.

As for the "new direction" for the Justice League, it falls squarely into the zeitgeist of The Authority, just about 10-15 years too late, and without the balls.


And yeah, Steve Trevor is soooooo coooooooool. How dare those elected officials ask for oversight into the exorbitantly costly space station housing human weapons of mass destruction that they directly finance? We'll bully them by pointing out that these ubermensches can violate their rights without a second thought! That'll show them not to be such cockheads!

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Duplicate Thread

I'm not enjoying this at all.

Batman taking off his mask to go rescue Superman....ummm why?

The Shazam redo has started off horribly as well. Why does Billy Batson have to be a jerk? CAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT!

Horrendous.

 

[Ice]

Merged.

 

[E]

I was reading some of my previous posts in this thread and I don't even half the things I mentioned as far as plot points go. I need to re-read this and see if it really as all over the place as it seems. Stuff just seems to be happening without being developed, with the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship the current "thing".

 

[DIrishB]

The New 52 continuity is beyond destroyed. The writers and editors obviously didn't bother to work out a detailed plan before proceeding with a reboot that was supposed to fix continuity problems, but only added more. Fail.

 

[Zombipanda]

The New 52 continuity is beyond destroyed. The writers and editors obviously didn't bother to work out a detailed plan before proceeding with a reboot that was supposed to fix continuity problems, but only added more. Fail.

I'm less interested in continuity problems across the line and more interested in writers on individual books not being hamstringed by decades of cumb continuity. To that extent, I think the books are in a slightly better place now than they were before.

 

[E]

I'm less interested in continuity problems across the line and more interested in writers on individual books not being hamstringed by decades of cumb continuity. To that extent, I think the books are in a slightly better place now than they were before.

I can't recall any instance where that has been the case, though. They changed some stuff that I don't think had anything to do with continuity issues (i.e. making Clark younger and struggling) and haven't been real clear about what exactly has changed. I just read a quote last night, can't remember by whom, which said that there are no more Anti-Monitors. But this wasn't revealed in a story; it's just something someone said. I seem to remember a few other things that were "revealed" in the same manner.

 

[Zombipanda]

I can't recall any instance where that has been the case, though. They changed some stuff that I don't think had anything to do with continuity issues (i.e. making Clark younger and struggling) and haven't been real clear about what exactly has changed. I just read a quote last night, can't remember by whom, which said that there are no more Anti-Monitors. But this wasn't revealed in a story; it's just something someone said. I seem to remember a few other things that were "revealed" in the same manner.

How does that not have anything to do with continuity issues? There's no way they could have done that interpretation of Superman in the old universe. or Wonder Woman. or any number of other characters. Their execution has been haphazard but, as is always the case, there's always going to be a few really good creators, a bunch of mediocre creators, and some terrible ones, and I think the great creators benefited from the reboot.

 

[E]

How does that not have anything to do with continuity issues? There's no way they could have done that interpretation of Superman in the old universe. or Wonder Woman. or any number of other characters.

That's not what I meant. They didn't need to re-interpret Superman or Wonder Woman, or, more accurately, didn't need to reset the main DCU to do it. Especially considering they've recently launched 2 new lines in Earth One and All-Star to do just that.

 

[ProjectX2]

DC listed Superman's first appearance as Justice League #1, which I'm pretty sure means Geoff Johns and Jim Lee are now credited with the creation of the world's greatest superhero.

 

[Zombipanda]

That's not what I meant. They didn't need to re-interpret Superman or Wonder Woman, or, more accurately, didn't need to reset the main DCU to do it. Especially considering they've recently launched 2 new lines in Earth One and All-Star to do just that.

There's a lot of things they don't need to do. I'd argue that keeping twenty years of continuity in place for the sake of a backwards fan base is one of them.

 

[DIrishB]

I'm less interested in continuity problems across the line and more interested in writers on individual books not being hamstringed by decades of cumb continuity. To that extent, I think the books are in a slightly better place now than they were before.

You're right, but at the same time it seems there was little forethought given by the writers and editors in terms of a plan, even amongst the core titles (the Bat-related books, Superman books, etc).

It's one thing to try to shed unnecessary continuity, and another thing entirely to unnecessarily create a mass of confusion regarding that issue. While continuity can be a thorn in the side of writers, it can also be a useful tool when the writer actually does their research and has the talent to use that for the greatest effect.

And like it or not, for people who've been reading the books for awhile (whether it's 2 years or 20), no one's very happy with the lackluster and half-assed approach The New 52 editorial teams have taken. Some stuff has happened, "but in a different way". Seriously? How about at least figuring out a general plan before you go shedding or altering past stories and confusing the hell out of your audience. Hamstringing as it can be, it's still important to fans. When one book says one thing and another something completely different, it strips the books of any coherence or logic (strained as that can be in this medium).

Granted I'm a continuity whore so it irks me more than most, but I've read countless posts and questions to DC editors/writers at cons with the same issue. So again, in my opinion the New 52 has created more problems than it solved. There's no cohesiveness.

Granted, I'm a bit spoiled in terms of forethought and planning a cohesive universe from the Valiant relaunch (though each book stands squarely on it's own). Much respect to the writers and editors of those books who took the time to plot out a general course for their respective books and the overall universe. Just wish DC could've maybe put more thought into their approach.

 

[Zombipanda]

You're right, but at the same time it seems there was little forethought given by the writers and editors in terms of a plan, even amongst the core titles (the Bat-related books, Superman books, etc).

It's one thing to try to shed unnecessary continuity, and another thing entirely to unnecessarily create a mass of confusion regarding that issue. While continuity can be a thorn in the side of writers, it can also be a useful tool when the writer actually does their research and has the talent to use that for the greatest effect.

And like it or not, for people who've been reading the books for awhile (whether it's 2 years or 20), no one's very happy with the lackluster and half-assed approach The New 52 editorial teams have taken. Some stuff has happened, "but in a different way". Seriously? How about at least figuring out a general plan before you go shedding or altering past stories and confusing the hell out of your audience. Hamstringing as it can be, it's still important to fans. When one book says one thing and another something completely different, it strips the books of any coherence or logic (strained as that can be in this medium).

Granted I'm a continuity whore so it irks me more than most, but I've read countless posts and questions to DC editors/writers at cons with the same issue. So again, in my opinion the New 52 has created more problems than it solved. There's no cohesiveness.

Granted, I'm a bit spoiled in terms of forethought and planning a cohesive universe from the Valiant relaunch (though each book stands squarely on it's own). Much respect to the writers and editors of those books who took the time to plot out a general course for their respective books and the overall universe. Just wish DC could've maybe put more thought into their approach.

I agree it was done haphazardly. It was clearly rushed out the gates. The fact that Batman and GL were left practically untouched is inexcusable. But I still think the line in general is in a better place than it was a year and change ago.

Still, it comes nowhere close to reaching the potential it could have. A proper and methodically handled reboot could reinvent how this form of storytelling is managed. I'll have to get around to outlining my Marvel 52 project sometime soon.

 

[DIrishB]

I agree it was done haphazardly. It was clearly rushed out the gates. The fact that Batman and GL were left practically untouched is inexcusable. But I still think the line in general is in a better place than it was a year and change ago.

Still, it comes nowhere close to reaching the potential it could have. A proper and methodically handled reboot could reinvent how this form of storytelling is managed. I'll have to get around to outlining my Marvel 52 project sometime soon.

I definitely look forward to your outline.

 

[KevinvaMarvel]

Well, I've been getting this book since issue one, but after 13-14 I am not sure whether or not I want to continue. I feel as though these stories are very slow and add too much useless dialogue. I love all the characters on the team and I'd hate to drop my only DC, but waiting a whole month for this average book is getting to me. I think I'll read the whole Throne of Atlantis crossover to make my final decision. Anyone else have the same feelings?