Ultimate Origins series discussion [Bendis/Guice] [spoilers]

Captain, now you see why the Ultimate timeline makes veins in my forehead stand out prominently.

Hulk killing Peter's mom is stupid. Though its possible that she wasn't dead, only knocked out/injured. That approach at least solves the "Did the Parkers die in a plane crash, the Hulk, or what?" question.
 
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what are you talking about?
I just played the USM game again about a month ago and watched all of the cut scenes. According to the game the Parkers and the Brocks died together in a plane crash. NOT caused by anybody in a venom suit and possibly caused by Trask (NOT Roxxon) sabotaging the palne.

This could have been a cover-up, but it begs the question, then how did the Brocks die? And when were the Parkers and the Brocks working on the venom suit? before Richard Parker was working on the super soldier serum? That doesn't really seem to fit.

Not to mention that Banner turned himself into the Hulk 3 times now (why would he do that?)

And it makes for a more interseting story if the Parkers and the Brocks died because Trask was trying to gain a SHIELD contract with the venom suit than if they got killed by the hulk. It's still connected, but the story has more dimentions that way.

*sigh*

I just read this and I have to say that it was probably the best so far of this series. (which isn't really saying much) I like how it explained Fury and that he actually did lend some of his blood to the SS project. It just seemed like the Parker bit was shoe horned in to try and make this grand connection and it contradicts established continuity and messes up the timeline in terms of when was Parker working on what (like you pointed out) for no good reason.

If Bendis was going to use Parker this way he could at least have had some mention of the suit to establish a time frame even though I imagine we are supposed to assume this is after the suit was developed.

But nevertheless, it completely contradicts history that was established in in USM.
 
yeah but he's been planning this from the begining remember? :roll:

right from day one he was planning on ignoring his and everyone else's continuity to write a story that isn't all that great anyway!
 
Well I finally got to pick up this issue and as I was reading it I was thinking why would Bendis change around the facts. So then I thought back to what Bruce Banner said in Ultimate Marvel Team-up #3. "They don't want you to figure it out, all of this is connected",." Maybe all the history we've been fed over the years was just a bunch of cover stories. Like when Sabertooth told Logan the everything in his Weapon X file was a lie. ...Or I could just be over thinking it.
 
Well I finally got to pick up this issue and as I was reading it I was thinking why would Bendis change around the facts. So then I thought back to what Bruce Banner said in Ultimate Marvel Team-up #3. "They don't want you to figure it out, all of this is connected",." Maybe all the history we've been fed over the years was just a bunch of cover stories. Like when Sabertooth told Logan the everything in his Weapon X file was a lie. ...Or I could just be over thinking it.

...or maybe it's a convenient excuse.
 
I do like the idea of Banner, Parker and Storm working together on the serum, but I don't like Pym being the Rick Jones character. It's silly. And I do like this version of The Watcher.

And why won't Fury's eye heal? There is no explanation that is even possible and consistent. Sigh. I want to like this (and the rest of the Ultimate Universe again) but they make it so hard.
 
And why won't Fury's eye heal? There is no explanation that is even possible and consistent. Sigh. I want to like this (and the rest of the Ultimate Universe again) but they make it so hard.

Have they shown him regenerating body parts? cause it could be just be fast healing
 
I do like the idea of Banner, Parker and Storm working together on the serum, but I don't like Pym being the Rick Jones character. It's silly. And I do like this version of The Watcher.

And why won't Fury's eye heal? There is no explanation that is even possible and consistent. Sigh. I want to like this (and the rest of the Ultimate Universe again) but they make it so hard.

Maybe he just likes rocking the eye patch.
 
Maybe he just likes rocking the eye patch.

No....wasn't there a scene somewhere where someone knocked the patch off and it showed the empty eye socket? I could've sworn I saw that.
 
No....wasn't there a scene somewhere where someone knocked the patch off and it showed the empty eye socket? I could've sworn I saw that.

Spider-man sucker punched him one time, and he was definitely one-eyed.
 
Some good things in #4: Firstly, the Watcher is properly revealed. Secondly, the story of Nick Fury assembling a team to recreate the super soldier serum was pretty well done, and had some unexpected moments like the Hulk killing off the Parkers. Pretty good stuff. Certainly nothing amazing, but nothing bad. Some nice references like the Baxter building and the Starks.

And for all our continuity bashing, it's cool that Fury has his haircut from Ultimate Team-Up and it's cool that Hulk is green.

Unfortunately, it still has some major problems. Hulk's killing of the Parkers while totally making sense and a cool twist, feels tacked on. It feels like something Bendis threw in their. It doesn't feel like this was the original plan. Secondly, I could barely tell the difference between Banner, Parker, Pym, and Storm. Three of the guys are tall, white men, with black hair. I know it's styled differently, but Guice just doesn't distinguish them enough to tell them apart easily.

Another problem is Fury being a super soldier. Yes, Fury giving them samples of his blood was something I complained about, so good. I'm glad he's giving them samples. But Captain America, it was implied, didn't just give one sample and that's all. Cap, was put under lots and lots of tests. Checking how it worked while he did things. Fury, by not willing to say, "Reverse engineer me" held it back when there was no need because all his bosses KNEW. If they didn't know, you had the whole, "He's keeping it a secret". But it doesn't make sense he wouldn't tell the research team to test him. He's being hounded and inspired to make an army of Captain America's, he's the key to it, and he's withholding it. It's totally inconsistent and nonsensical. Yes, the blood sample IS a step towards the right direction, but it doesn't solve the problem.

Also, Thor's reaction to the Watcher is to hit it. Apparently, Ultimate Thor, like Morrison's X-Men run is to be retconned for all time.

Another problem was the Watcher. This race of Watchers want to watch so they transport these 6-foot tall red eye things in the middle of important places.

I call bull****. If they can do that, then they can easily have satellites in the sky with x-ray lenses or some **** and view anything and everything from orbit without anyone knowing.

Which would be awesome.

Another problem, and my biggest grip about this mini-series, is what I originally said: This isn't a mini. This is 5 one-shots linked together by "Watcher" moments. This isn't the unraveling of a tapestry, but just five individual origin one-shots. This is the PENULTIMATE issue of this series, and we've only just found out the Watcher is here to watch Ultimatum (at least someone will buy that junky mini).

Well, bull****. Anyone picking up these issues knew what the Watcher was and what it was here for in #1. Four issues of people going, "Oo! What is it?" and we're all handing them a guide of Earth X and saying, "Read it. It's the Watcher." Four issues and this series is just starting.

See, flashbacks are cool... when the audience has a reason to find out stuff. There's no reason for us to find this **** out. The revelations have been mostly filling in the blanks (with the notable exceptions of Fury being a super soldier and Wolverine being the first mutant, both in #1) and we knew most of this stuff going in. The big mystery of the red eye, we knew because we've read comics before. We've no story reason to go into the past. The whole mini feels like, "If we don't do this NOW, we never will" and well... **** it.

Look.

How awesome, if in the first ****ing issue, the Fantastic Four are brought by SHIELD to some place off shore from Alaska. There's a huge, top secret, expedition. Something has fallen out the sky. It's a biological and technological artifact. It's completely destroyed. The debriefing is simple, testing an orbital weapon that REED designed for the Think Tank that uses EMP, it HIT something completely invisible in the orbit of the Earth. It crashed into Alaska. They're keeping it top secret. But other nations are getting pissy about it. So, there's actually representatives from SHIELD's foreign counterparts there. The reason is simple: The last time something extraterrestrial crash-landed on Earth it was The Vision and it came with a warning about a predator on its way to kill the Earth. If this is another Vision they WANT TO KNOW NOW. So the Fantastic Four, because they are wicked smart, is brought in to find out what the hell it is. And after much work, Reed works it out. It's an informational database, that's been recording... THE EARTH. He's cobbled together a way of accessing the information, and points out this thing has been viewing the Savage Land. Replay some of the key Magneto/Professor X moments. He suggests that there's a LOT more of these in the sky. Invisible and watching. Then Reed drops the bombshell - from the information contained, he's worked out (yes, I know Reed's deductive capabilities here are ludicrous, but I'm sure if I was being paid and not coming up with this story off the top of my head I'd come up with better ways to deal with this) that they're viewing for some PARTICULAR cataclysmic event. She asks how he knows this. He plays some information from the Watcher from A DIFFERENT world. In which it recored the formation of a genetic war, focusing on one point. Danvers orders Reed's weapon to be fired to bring down every damn Watcher it can. They need to know what's coming.

So, at the end of #1, we get one minor revelation of the past conspiracy, the Watcher, what it's doing and why, and the progression of the series is that the revelations are being brought forward by Reed and SHIELD to deal with the coming cataclysm. Throw in the fact that the race behind the Watchers are going to be pissed as hell that the ants they're viewing are now AWARE of the presence (thus affecting the outcome) that these aliens are no doubt, going to kick up some ****, and hell, you've got a 5-issue mini that I think could kick ***.

But then, if I knew what I was talking about I'd be writing these damn things for Marvel.
 
Some good things in #4: Firstly, the Watcher is properly revealed. Secondly, the story of Nick Fury assembling a team to recreate the super soldier serum was pretty well done, and had some unexpected moments like the Hulk killing off the Parkers. Pretty good stuff. Certainly nothing amazing, but nothing bad. Some nice references like the Baxter building and the Starks.

And for all our continuity bashing, it's cool that Fury has his haircut from Ultimate Team-Up and it's cool that Hulk is green.

Unfortunately, it still has some major problems. Hulk's killing of the Parkers while totally making sense and a cool twist, feels tacked on. It feels like something Bendis threw in their. It doesn't feel like this was the original plan. Secondly, I could barely tell the difference between Banner, Parker, Pym, and Storm. Three of the guys are tall, white men, with black hair. I know it's styled differently, but Guice just doesn't distinguish them enough to tell them apart easily.

Another problem is Fury being a super soldier. Yes, Fury giving them samples of his blood was something I complained about, so good. I'm glad he's giving them samples. But Captain America, it was implied, didn't just give one sample and that's all. Cap, was put under lots and lots of tests. Checking how it worked while he did things. Fury, by not willing to say, "Reverse engineer me" held it back when there was no need because all his bosses KNEW. If they didn't know, you had the whole, "He's keeping it a secret". But it doesn't make sense he wouldn't tell the research team to test him. He's being hounded and inspired to make an army of Captain America's, he's the key to it, and he's withholding it. It's totally inconsistent and nonsensical. Yes, the blood sample IS a step towards the right direction, but it doesn't solve the problem.

I follow you (and agree with you) on these parts, but the rest is a bit to rant-ish for me to understand.
 
I follow you (and agree with you) on these parts, but the rest is a bit to rant-ish for me to understand.

This is the most apt response to my posts ever.

It's basically, "You made sense until you went off on one and now you're talking gibberish." :D

*bows to thekendon*
 
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This is the most apt response to my posts ever.

It's basically, "You made sense until you went off on one and now you're talking gibberish." :D

*bows to thekendon*

Bow? I demand a curtsey! [waves fist in threatening manner]

Or is it spelled curtsy?
 

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