Ultimatum series discussion [spoilers]

[The Overlord]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Is worse even possible?

Sure, it can always get worse. Like Bush's approval rating, there is always room to go down.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

So is it better or worse then Ultimates 3?

it's hard to tell, nothing really happened
(Well NYC was flooded and a bunch of people died and just about everyone in Latveria except Doom froze to death)


If you're gonna have team covers like that you should put everyone on them

Kitty, MoonKnight, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, and Black Cat should be on the cover with Spidey (whether or not they are in the story)

and Liz, Iceman, Dazzler, and Angel should be on the cover with the X-Men

other questions, don't you think Prof X would be careful enough to NOT send his telepathy to Magneto to let them know they were coming?

were Spidey and Kitty actually flirting? it really seemed like it.

Reed left his dying girlfriend to try and beat up Namor?!? really?!?!

how tall is the L track? because it looked like that tsunami was at least 15 stories high...but the L was apparently above water

Kitty with her phasing abilities and inability to get hurt, and the fact that she can fly decides to stay in the train, and send Pete off to fight a tsunami with his webs and spider-sense?

Tony Stark is telling Cap to not be thinking about another man's wife?

(there are so many more for the ultimates, but they have been ruined, so we'll just leave it alone)

the X-Men are fighting about who blends in better?!? really? again?

How is Doom back?

Why are they letting Loeb ignore everything that Kirkman was setting up for Magneto?...Matermind in the Triskelion, Magneto planning something big, Longshot was with him, actually, he had a LOT of mutants with him, not just his brotherhood. (well maybe they scatered and were killed during the attack on the savage land...there were a bunch of mutants fighting alongside Magneto there...okay, we'll give him that one)

i'm sure there's more but i'm tired

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

So is it better or worse then Ultimates 3?

Better, but just barely.

 

[Goodwill]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Man, I'm going to be banned for this...

I liked it. I found nothing wrong, other than the dialogue in the beginning. Other than that, the art was good and the rest of the story served as an interesting set up for what is to come. Whether this event will actually change the UU (other than the flood destroying NYC), it is definitely prevelant in both this and Ultimate Origin - the titles in the UU or, at least the concentration of effort, is coming back together. I sense uniformity in this, which is a good thing. I can't wait to see where this goes... I'm actually eager to see if Loeb can make you guys eat your words.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

I mean, Magneto could turn out to be a rabbit.

:shock:

That's....that would be the best reveal in the only history of ever.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

I can't wait to see where this goes... I'm actually eager to see if Loeb can make you guys eat your words.

Well, I've been choking on Loeb's, so . . .

What's going to kill this series isn't going to be the story, since I don't think Loeb planned it alone. It's going to be the dialogue and characterizations.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

it's hard to tell, nothing really happened
(Well NYC was flooded and a bunch of people died and just about everyone in Latveria except Doom froze to death)


If you're gonna have team covers like that you should put everyone on them

Kitty, MoonKnight, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, and Black Cat should be on the cover with Spidey (whether or not they are in the story)

and Liz, Iceman, Dazzler, and Angel should be on the cover with the X-Men

other questions, don't you think Prof X would be careful enough to NOT send his telepathy to Magneto to let them know they were coming?

were Spidey and Kitty actually flirting? it really seemed like it.

Reed left his dying girlfriend to try and beat up Namor?!? really?!?!

how tall is the L track? because it looked like that tsunami was at least 15 stories high...but the L was apparently above water

Kitty with her phasing abilities and inability to get hurt, and the fact that she can fly decides to stay in the train, and send Pete off to fight a tsunami with his webs and spider-sense?

Tony Stark is telling Cap to not be thinking about another man's wife?

(there are so many more for the ultimates, but they have been ruined, so we'll just leave it alone)

the X-Men are fighting about who blends in better?!? really? again?

How is Doom back?

Why are they letting Loeb ignore everything that Kirkman was setting up for Magneto?...Matermind in the Triskelion, Magneto planning something big, Longshot was with him, actually, he had a LOT of mutants with him, not just his brotherhood. (well maybe they scatered and were killed during the attack on the savage land...there were a bunch of mutants fighting alongside Magneto there...okay, we'll give him that one)

i'm sure there's more but i'm tired

All very good points!

 

[leather_w0lf]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

I'VE GOT IT!

Loeb is the Joel Schumaker of comics, trying to ruin another successful franchise.

My issue with this issue:

AGAIN WITH THE ALL CAPS FONT FOR THE LETTERING! ULTIMATE UNIVERSE HAS UPPER AND LOWER CASE!

Another instance where it's like a Joel Schumaker Batman movie - an obvious change in production quality. It continues, though . . .

The art is great but it's splat pages again, like Ultimates 3 but with a better cinematographer and more characters to devote an entire page to.

And Thor is still talking like a retard! What - the man finally realizes his heritage and starts talking like that on a whim?

But the sketch of Thor and Hela for the next issue variant cover was bad a$$.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

And Thor is still talking like a retard! What - the man finally realizes his heritage and starts talking like that on a whim?

Pretty much. It was explained that now that Thor proved his God-hood by the end of Ultimates 2, there was no reason for him NOT to talk like that.

Yeah. I'm serious.

 

[zeroswitch]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Well, I liked Ultimatum 1. But then, I liked Ultimate Origins and Ultimates 3 too. In fact, almost everything under the Ultimate imprint has entertained me. Yeah, that's right; I'm having fun reading my comics. If you're not, maybe you should switch titles and be done with it? Just an idea. :roll:

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Well, I liked Ultimatum 1. But then, I liked Ultimate Origins and Ultimates 3 too. In fact, almost everything under the Ultimate imprint has entertained me. Yeah, that's right; I'm having fun reading my comics. If you're not, maybe you should switch titles and be done with it? Just an idea. :roll:

...yeah, but...then what would we complain about?:sure:

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Well, I liked Ultimatum 1. But then, I liked Ultimate Origins and Ultimates 3 too.

People eat and enjoy haggis and tripe also. :sick:

That doesn't make it right.

 

[Goodwill]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Hey, my family is from Scotland. Haggis is great!

:lol:

No, but seriously. My family is from Scotland...

Anyway...

I liked Ultimate Origin and Ultimatum. Forgive me for saying this but everything in UO fit. Somethings irreversably changed (Fury being a super soldier), but it all fit. Peter Parker's father was said to have died from the plane crash. We only saw that his mother died because of the Hulk. Dugan and Fisk are probably much, much older. They were teens in WWII probably. It still makes sense. All of it. Good stuff, although I don't know where the stuff with the Watcher is going. That's why I'm already invested in the rest of Ultimatum. There's a direction, I can't stress that enough, that the UU didn't have for months after Ultimate Galactus wrapped. This is exciting... Guys, be open minded, remember that Millar is coming back and enjoy yourselves!

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Hey, my family is from Scotland. Haggis is great!

:lol:

No, but seriously. My family is from Scotland...

My family is from Italy. But I still wouldn't eat tripe.

Dugan and Fisk are probably much, much older. They were teens in WWII probably. It still makes sense.

Uh...yeah. MUCH older. You are aware that WWII ended in like 1945 right? That means that even if they were 13 that would make them mid to late 70's (depending on what year is the current year in Ult continuity).

And that is clearly NOT how Fisk and Dugan are portrayed.

So on your claim that "it all fits" I respectfully beg to differ. Unless of course they are super soldiers or mutants (or both) also.

 

[-beardoms-]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Ive made a post about continuity problems and they can all be fixed, cant fisk and duagn just be anscetors.

 

[Goodwill]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Yea, that's what I was just going to post - Wolverine and Fury are genetically altered and can actually now live that long. Whether I like the idea of Fury being a Capt. America-esque character is still up in the air... But if those two have explanations as to why they have lived this long that's fine. Fisk and Dugan can be descendants of the people we first saw in Ultimate Origin.

Fury being a super soldier doesn't contradict anything either. He's said in UO that he doesn't want to be known as a super soldier, that he wants to be left alone. So, anything that Fury said to Peter about not knowing his father or his schooling in India is all a lie. He's lied before, it's not like Fury lying is out of character.

After all this, though, I do admit that Bendis did stretch this a little too far... Although I can live with it.

 

[Goodwill]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Also, did anyone else notice that the person who pushed through Dazz, Beast, Angel, and Kurt was actually Banner? I wonder if that was Loeb or Finch...

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Fisk and Dugan can be descendants of the people we first saw in Ultimate Origin.

Well that would be fine. But then the writers should say so. Same with Parkers father. If he survived the Hulk and got remarried or whatever then say so. If they just leave it open to speculation it basically leaves plot holes the size of Australia and amounts to lazy writing. But as far as I can tell, there has been no mention or anything that implies that Fisk and Dugan are descendants of WW2 guys. (or that Parkers father survived the first Hulk attack for that matter)

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

On a side note, I finally pulled the trigger today. I had all the Ultimate comics taken off my pull list at my LCS except USM. And I did not buy Ultimatum #1. I did flip through it at the shop thinking that maybe I would give it a chance. But then it occurred to me that Marvel doesn't know what my rational is for buying, only that I bought. And to them that is all that matters. The only way to get the message to Joe Q is for the sales numbers to go down.

And really, even if Ultimatum turns out to be the greatest comic story ever told, I can wait for the trade.

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

On a side note, I finally pulled the trigger today. I had all the Ultimate comics taken off my pull list at my LCS except USM. And I did not buy Ultimatum #1. I did flip through it at the shop thinking that maybe I would give it a chance. But then it occurred to me that Marvel doesn't know what my rational is for buying, only that I bought. And to them that is all that matters. The only way to get the message to Joe Q is for the sales numbers to go down.

And really, even if Ultimatum turns out to be the greatest comic story ever told, I can wait for the trade.

THANK YOU. The rest of you can should take after this one

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

THANK YOU. The rest of you can should take after this one

Thanks. I'm pretty proud of myself also.

Gotta tell you, it feels kind of good to know I have cut Loeb off.

It's like when you are supporting your junky brother-in-law and when you cut him off it gives you a feeling of being liberated.

This is kind of like that.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Well, I liked Ultimatum 1. But then, I liked Ultimate Origins and Ultimates 3 too. In fact, almost everything under the Ultimate imprint has entertained me. Yeah, that's right; I'm having fun reading my comics. If you're not, maybe you should switch titles and be done with it? Just an idea. :roll:

:shock:

Rational discussion? About comics? On the internet?!

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING, MAN?!

(In all seriousness - glad you're enjoying the title. You should be having fun. See, I don't get the people who buy it and then complain. Me - I don't buy them. I've downloaded them just out of a sense of morbid curiosity.)

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Exactly, if you enjoyed it, then by all means, ENJOY IT! We are cranky old men who expected something more, and got less.

I'm glad some of you are enjoying it, I hope you continue to enjoy it.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

I'd be more willing to accept people liking the series, if it weren't ****ting over characters and ideas I used to be very attached to.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Ultimatum has a lot of potential... but Millar should write it. Really. Remember in his Ultimate X-Men run when Magneto was building machines and stuff to increase his powers so he could reverse the earth's poles? That was scary. And then he was caught and at the end of BKV's run, he tells Longshot that he has a new plan. What happened to all of that? Loeb happened to that. He ignored all of these good storylines and interesting ideas so he can write his own boring, stupid ****. It's not the Ultimate Universe. It's whatever Loeb wants.

Imagine Millar's Magneto finally deciding to destroy the world. Or BKV's Magneto finally beginning his new plan - probably the creation of a new era of mutantkind. But instead we get Magneto somehow hearing Xavier's telepathic message (why the **** would he hear it?) and telling the audience (seriously, I hate it when that happens) that they will pay the ultimate price. Really? Because that's what we've heard for the last few months. What's the ultimate price? $90?! (MSN joke)

I don't even know what Doom's role in this story is. It must be Loeb, forcing every character into the story even if they don't have a purpose.

Remember when the Ultimate Universe was not only good, but EXCELLENT? I do, and that's my Ultimate Universe. It ended when Millar/Ellis/BKV left.

 

[fenway]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

So is it better or worse then Ultimates 3?

That's like comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.

Neither is more rotten... they're just.... differently rotten.

 

[Sacred&Profane]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Ultimatum has a lot of potential... but Millar should write it. Really. Remember in his Ultimate X-Men run when Magneto was building machines and stuff to increase his powers so he could reverse the earth's poles? That was scary. And then he was caught and at the end of BKV's run, he tells Longshot that he has a new plan. What happened to all of that? Loeb happened to that. He ignored all of these good storylines and interesting ideas so he can write his own boring, stupid ****. It's not the Ultimate Universe. It's whatever Loeb wants.

Imagine Millar's Magneto finally deciding to destroy the world. Or BKV's Magneto finally beginning his new plan - probably the creation of a new era of mutantkind. But instead we get Magneto somehow hearing Xavier's telepathic message (why the **** would he hear it?) and telling the audience (seriously, I hate it when that happens) that they will pay the ultimate price. Really? Because that's what we've heard for the last few months. What's the ultimate price? $90?! (MSN joke)

I don't even know what Doom's role in this story is. It must be Loeb, forcing every character into the story even if they don't have a purpose.

Remember when the Ultimate Universe was not only good, but EXCELLENT? I do, and that's my Ultimate Universe. It ended when Millar/Ellis/BKV left.

Agreed.

Doom is what makes me most annoyed. I mean, his appearance as a mastermind at the end of Ultimates 3 is now blatantly a "hey look, this is a cool twist," superfluous in everything but how pretty the picture looked.

There have been so many threads dropped that it's possible to define which issues each individual series went to ****.

I mean, Kirkman's stories were kind of lackluster, but at least he kept most of it in some semblance of continuity.

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Exactly, if you enjoyed it, then by all means, ENJOY IT! We are cranky old men who expected something more, and got less.

HEY!!! I'm not cranky. :shock:

 

[Grocer Man]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

I'm guessing Magneto somehow figured out that Doom was somehow behind his son's murder, and froze Latveria just to spite him.

Or something just as contrived.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimatum discussion (Spoilers & Stuff)

Remember when the Ultimate Universe was not only good, but EXCELLENT? I do, and that's my Ultimate Universe. It ended when Millar/Ellis/BKV left.

I did a whole rant about it the other night, but nobody seemed to notice.