Mario Timeline

[Elly]

Y

Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I’ve linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I’ll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they’re kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I’m personally disregarding that

Yeah I just personally don't like that video very much, some of the evidence is shoddy and people I know have told me he kinda just doesn't accept counter evidence when brought up to him in comments. The timeline Megatron linked should clear up any misconceptions you have about the game order.

 

[Elly]

Also btw I forgot to mention it, but NES Golf isn't actually Mario, iirc they localized it only in America to claim it was Mario, it's actually an original character called Ossan (who also appears in Captain Rainbow). So you don't have to include that game either

 

[Elly]

The movie is incompatible due to humans being unaware of the Mushroom World. I’d have to look into the show, though. From what I understand, it isn’t canon, but I don’t think anything contradicts?

The Movies also can't work because the characters all meet differently obviously. And DK Jr seemingly doesn't exist in that universe. The show probably doesn't work either, it's just like a very weird version of Mario made by the American side of things, it really shouldn't be considered canon it'd be like including the Zelda cartoon in a Zelda timeline or Ruby Spears Mega Man in a Mega Man one

 

[Elly]

Captain N?

You don't know what Captain N is? It was a cartoon about a gamer being trapped inside "Video Land" a dimension where all NES characters live, he has to fight Mother Brain with the help of Kid Icarus, Simon Belmont from Castlevania and Mega Man. Other characters like DK, Ridley, Eggplant Wizard and King Hippo also all appear as well as a living Gameboy.

 

[stphylcccs]

Will you add a [Banjo Universe] and [Conker Universe] marker for those games because of what Greg Mayles said?

Honestly, probably not. I usually take Word of God as absolute, though I make a few exceptions. This is clearly stated for legal reasons, so I wouldn't consider it a reliable piece of information. I usually disregard retroactive statements made for legal reasons to retcon franchises, since it's basically just one company going "Well I'm not allowed these characters anymore so... screw them, I guess"

 

[Elly]

Honestly, probably not. I usually take Word of God as absolute, though I make a few exceptions. This is clearly stated for legal reasons, so I wouldn't consider it a reliable piece of information. I usually disregard retroactive statements made for legal reasons to retcon franchises, since it's basically just one company going "Well I'm not allowed these characters anymore so... screw them, I guess"

Ehhhh, but he said they were Never the same universe even back when Rare was partly owned by Nintendo

 

[Rojinn]

The Movies also can't work because the characters all meet differently obviously. And DK Jr seemingly doesn't exist in that universe. The show probably doesn't work either, it's just like a very weird version of Mario made by the American side of things, it really shouldn't be considered canon it'd be like including the Zelda cartoon in a Zelda timeline or Ruby Spears Mega Man in a Mega Man one

Well, the Zelda DIC Cartoon works quite well in the Zelda Timeline, especially if we take them as Zelda/Link from Zelda 1 & 2 (for the latter only the same Link). Gives their relationship a complete arc from Zelda 1 to Zelda Valiant Comics / Captain N (which has to be last, as Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule in that), during which both of them mature. You can even throw in the CDi games I guess, though these feel more like a step back in their relationship due to their placements after Zelda II (as the Tri Force of Wisdom appears).

Zelda & Link are 10
The Legend of Zelda
BS The Legend of Zelda

???
Vermin (Zelda Version)
Zelda (Game & Watch)
Zelda (Game Watch)

Zelda & Link are 15
The Legend of Zelda (TV Series)

Zelda & Link are 16
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Link: The Faces of Evil
Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon
Zelda's Adventure

Zelda & Link are 17
The Legend of Zelda (Valiant Comics)

Zelda & Link are c. 18
Captain N: The Game Master (TV Series)


Reasoning for ages:
Link & Zelda are confirmed to be the same age. In the Zelda I Manual, Link is confirmed to be 10. I've placed the smaller adventures in the 5 year gap after Zelda I, though this could be changed. The back of the box description of the Zelda TV Series confirms that both are 15. Zelda II takes place 6 years after Zelda I, and the CDi games have to take place after Zelda II, as the Tri Force of Wisdom is used im Wand of Gamelon (even though those games feel like a prequel to the DIC Cartoon). In issue 2 of the Valiant Comics, it is mentioned that Zelda was to young to remember someone 16 years ago, so she is very likely 17-18, 17 works better imo. In Captain N (I believe Season 2), Captain N & co travel to Hyrule and meet Zelda / Link, with their voice actors from tge Zelda cartoon returning. It is mentioned that Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule, so her father passed away / is too old. As Zelda's father appeared in the Valiant comics, this has to take place after. Also, Ganon kinda returns in the comics and is mentioned as being defeated in Captain N. The relationship between Link & Zelda matured, though Link is still jealous, so they're likely around 18-19.


Hope that makes sense ^^"

 

[Elly]

Well, the Zelda DIC Cartoon works quite well in the Zelda Timeline, especially if we take them as Zelda/Link from Zelda 1 & 2 (for the latter only the same Link). Gives their relationship a complete arc from Zelda 1 to Zelda Valiant Comics / Captain N (which has to be last, as Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule in that), during which both of them mature. You can even throw in the CDi games I guess, though these feel more like a step back in their relationship due to their placements after Zelda II (as the Tri Force of Wisdom appears).

Zelda & Link are 10
The Legend of Zelda
BS The Legend of Zelda
???
Vermin (Zelda Version)
Zelda (Game & Watch)
Zelda (Game Watch)
Zelda & Link are 15
The Legend of Zelda (TV Series)
Zelda & Link are 16
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Link: The Faces of Evil
Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon
Zelda's Adventure
Zelda & Link are 17
The Legend of Zelda (Valiant Comics)
Zelda & Link are c. 18
Captain N: The Game Master (TV Series)


Reasoning for ages:
Link & Zelda are confirmed to be the same age. In the Zelda I Manual, Link is confirmed to be 10. I've placed the smaller adventures in the 5 year gap after Zelda I, though this could be changed. The back of the box description of the Zelda TV Series confirms that both are 15. Zelda II takes place 6 years after Zelda I, and the CDi games have to take place after Zelda II, as the Tri Force of Wisdom is used im Wand of Gamelon (even though those games feel like a prequel to the DIC Cartoon). In issue 2 of the Valiant Comics, it is mentioned that Zelda was to young to remember someone 16 years ago, so she is very likely 17-18, 17 works better imo. In Captain N (I believe Season 2), Captain N & co travel to Hyrule and meet Zelda / Link, with their voice actors from tge Zelda cartoon returning. It is mentioned that Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule, so her father passed away / is too old. As Zelda's father appeared in the Valiant comics, this has to take place after. Also, Ganon kinda returns in the comics and is mentioned as being defeated in Captain N. The relationship between Link & Zelda matured, though Link is still jealous, so they're likely around 18-19.


Hope that makes sense ^^"

BS Zelda takes place centuries after the NES games. And Ganon dies in Zelda 1 and doesn't come back at all, Zelda 2 is stopping his resurrection. And Ganon was still alive in Captain N just depowered

 

[stphylcccs]

You shouldn't include games set on earth without a [Parallel Earth] marker. Mario takes place on a very different earth, you can see in Odyssey the full globe and the continents are extremely different and there's no real life locations.

Since I have time, I'm answering everything I can right now. I haven't included any citations yet, just because I don't do that on the simplified timeline (I think I might've for my Pixar one, but that was my first timeline here and is very messy.) I'll include citations on the detailed timeline, for things such as Wario and Bomber-Man, Paper Mario, etc.

As for the alternate universes theory, the main Mario world is clearly not an alternate Earth. While Odyssey shows a full map of the world, it only includes the kingdoms visited in that game, as well as the islands shown in Mario Sunshine. It doesn't include things such as Sarasaland, the DK Isles, etc. On the off-chance that this was a retcon, it would be un-retconned due to more locations outside the Mushroom Kingdom and Odyssey continent(s). Mario & Sonic 2014 specifically states that the Mario and Sonic characters come from their respective "worlds", not "Earths". Sonic is established to be a parallel Earth, hence the universe distinction, though Mario is not directly stated to be a parallel Earth, so it shouldn't be assumed to be. Furthermore, the level of interaction between the Mushroom World and Earth (Bowser taking artefacts from Earth's history, not the Mushroom World's, in Mario's Time Machine, Bowser wanting to melt the icecaps to take over Earth in Mario is Missing!, etc) it can be assumed that the portal connecting them, as shown in the sports games, is intradimensional.

 

[Elly]

Since I have time, I'm answering everything I can right now. I haven't included any citations yet, just because I don't do that on the simplified timeline (I think I might've for my Pixar one, but that was my first timeline here and is very messy.) I'll include citations on the detailed timeline, for things such as Wario and Bomber-Man, Paper Mario, etc.

As for the alternate universes theory, the main Mario world is clearly not an alternate Earth. While Odyssey shows a full map of the world, it only includes the kingdoms visited in that game, as well as the islands shown in Mario Sunshine. It doesn't include things such as Sarasaland, the DK Isles, etc. On the off-chance that this was a retcon, it would be un-retconned due to more locations outside the Mushroom Kingdom and Odyssey continent(s). Mario & Sonic 2014 specifically states that the Mario and Sonic characters come from their respective "worlds", not "Earths". Sonic is established to be a parallel Earth, hence the universe distinction, though Mario is not directly stated to be a parallel Earth, so it shouldn't be assumed to be. Furthermore, the level of interaction between the Mushroom World and Earth (Bowser taking artefacts from Earth's history, not the Mushroom World's, in Mario's Time Machine, Bowser wanting to melt the icecaps to take over Earth in Mario is Missing!, etc) it can be assumed that the portal connecting them, as shown in the sports games, is intradimensional.

The time frames just don't match up imo it has to be parallel universes with time dilation or else it all falls apart. Also games like Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine probably aren't canon because they weren't published by Nintendo, only licensed, they're not really on the same tier as the actually published games, they're never referenced in other material

 

[stphylcccs]

Ehhhh, but he said they were Never the same universe even back when Rare was partly owned by Nintendo

They appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, I'd say that's evidence enough. It isn't a Mario Kart situation where Link and Inklings show up, since its actually plausible that Conker and Banjo-Kazooie take place on the Mushroom World.

 

[Elly]

They appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, I'd say that's evidence enough. It isn't a Mario Kart situation where Link and Inklings show up, since its actually plausible that Conker and Banjo-Kazooie take place on the Mushroom World.

Again years don't really match with Mario's. Banjo takes place in 1998, Tooie in 2000 and N&B in 2008

Mario is 30 in the mid 2010s and is 24/25 in the late 2000s when Donkey Kong Arcade occurs which is way after banjo Kazooie occurs which is after Diddy Kong Racing which has to be after DK Arcade

 

[Elly]

Again years don't really match with Mario's. Banjo takes place in 1998, Tooie in 2000 and N&B in 2008

Mario is 30 in the mid 2010s and is 24/25 in the late 2000s when Donkey Kong Arcade occurs which is way after banjo Kazooie occurs which is after Diddy Kong Racing which has to be after DK Arcade

Like I understand you want to include all the non-published games and crossover series and stuff, but you have to take a step back and look at how this would work or not with the Mainline series and it's time frame, that needs to be the basis for everything and it needs to make sense or else nothing really works

 

[stphylcccs]

The time frames just don't match up imo it has to be parallel universes with time dilation or else it all falls apart. Also games like Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine probably aren't canon because they weren't published by Nintendo, only licensed, they're not really on the same tier as the actually published games, they're never referenced in other material

Again, I don't consider legalities a valid way to deduce canonicity. Though, if they were licensed by Nintendo, they at the very least accept those games to exist under the Nintendo and Mario name, so even taking into account legalities those games should be considered canon

 

[stphylcccs]

Mario is 30 in the mid 2010s and is 24/25 in the late 2000s when Donkey Kong Arcade occurs which is way after banjo Kazooie occurs which is after Diddy Kong Racing which has to be after DK Arcade

Just wondering where these ages are coming from?

 

[Elly]

Again, I don't consider legalities a valid way to deduce canonicity. Though, if they were licensed by Nintendo, they at the very least accept those games to exist under the Nintendo and Mario name, so even taking into account legalities those games should be considered canon

Nintendo doesn't consider the Zelda CDI games as canon to Zelda and those were also only licensed. I think it's probably the same situation for Mario. But either way if you want to count them you can, I just don't think that they fit in the timeline unless you accept that Earth is a parallel universe to Mario's world that runs on its own separate timeline so these different decades on Earth can go by without it messing up the established 5-6 year time frame that most of the Mario series occurs over

 

[Elly]

Nintendo doesn't consider the Zelda CDI games as canon to Zelda and those were also only licensed. I think it's probably the same situation for Mario. But either way if you want to count them you can, I just don't think that they fit in the timeline unless you accept that Earth is a parallel universe to Mario's world that runs on its own separate timeline so these different decades on Earth can go by without it messing up the established 5-6 year time frame that most of the Mario series occurs over

Hard dates and ages for characters in the main series of games should take precedence over the less looked over entries of the series that Nintendo had almost nothing to do with.

 

[stphylcccs]

Like I understand you want to include all the non-published games and crossover series and stuff, but you have to take a step back and look at how this would work or not with the Mainline series and it's time frame, that needs to be the basis for everything and it needs to make sense or else nothing really works

But it does work with the mainline series. Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine don't contradict the timeline in any way. Even then, something shouldn't be disregarded because you can't immediately place it on a timeline. The only other contradiction here is Banjo-Kazooie, I'll consider removing it

 

[Elly]

But it does work with the mainline series. Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine don't contradict the timeline in any way. Even then, something shouldn't be disregarded because you can't immediately place it on a timeline. The only other contradiction here is Banjo-Kazooie, I'll consider removing it

That's fair, just remember that when they show a year for the regular real world Earth that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same year on Marios earth because the main Mario series mostly happens from 2007-2016 then possibly jumps ahead to 2025. With Mario and Luigi being born in about 1983

 

[Rojinn]

That's fair, just remember that when they show a year for the regular real world Earth that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same year on Marios earth because the main Mario series mostly happens from 2007-2016 then possibly jumps ahead to 2025. With Mario and Luigi being born in about 1983

Wasn't there a 2005 date in the manual of Wario Land?