Mario Timeline

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Rojinn said:
Found it, it was a german video about the Banjo-Kazooie Timeline. I'll quickly watch it and translate the relevant part

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Firstly, damn, that video is 10 yrs old...

Secondly, here's the relevant part (roughly):
It's important to look at the last thing Klungo said to Gruntilda when leaving her. He wanted to work at a desk and potentially develop dumb games. He worked on that, and thus, Banjo-Pilot was made. [...] The reason [for this theory] is the character selection. There are characters in the game that [Banjo and Kazooie] meet for the first time in Banjo-Tooie, but also the original Gruntilda, still with her green body, is present. That's the reason why Banjo-Pilot couldn't happen in the lives of Banjo and Kazooie. Thus, to fit it in regardless, the game was programmed by Klungo. And hey, it even works with the next entry. [...] After Banjo-Tooie and Klungo's first try at programming, many years passed. Then, Banjo-Kazooie Nuts'n'Bolts followed. [...] Klungo opened his own arcade with own games in this game. Although he practiced with Banjo-Pilot, his arcade games weren't really that good.
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Honestly, don't think that holds that much ground and can be disregarded, the memory just popped into my head when I read that games' title. Sorry ^^"
 
Hi I'm new here but I have a lot of notes. Mario + Rabbids was confirmed by the devs to be noncanon to Mario (it's still canon to Rabbids though apparently so if you want to include it on a separate timeline for that franchise you can.

I don't think you should count Sim City as evidence for when Mario was born, he's considered 24/25 in Donkey Kong Arcade and 30 in Dr Luigi, and in Color Splash Huey says Mario has been fighting Bowser for 30 years (counting yoshis Island is started at his birth)

Banjo and Conker were apparently never considered part of the Mario universe according to Rareware devs, Greg mayles I believe said this on Twitter I could maybe find it later. (Also Banjo Pilot was confirmed in an in-universe blog to be a dream Kazooie had during the gap between Tooie and N&B)

The Paper games DO take place in another universe but it's worth noting the exact same events happen in both universes since in Paper Jam the 2 Peach's mention they lived identical lives. Also Bowser created Goomboss with the Star Rod and he later appears in Non-Paper Games. The TTYD characters even appear on scoreboards in sports spinoffs.

You shouldn't include games set on earth without a [Parallel Earth] marker. Mario takes place on a very different earth, you can see in Odyssey the full globe and the continents are extremely different and there's no real life locations. They do go to real earth in some games but it's usually implied to be a parallel universe, like in the GameBoy golf spinoffs we see Peach's castle in the clouds not on Earth, implying it's some kind of dimensional gateway (my personal headcanon is they used the castles 120 stars from Mario 64 to travel to the Real World Earth since in Galaxy it's stated 120 stars are what's needed to travel to parallel universes). It also kinda has to be a parallel Earth since F-1 race is set pre-end of Cold war due to a guy in the game being from East Germany and in Mario Kart Tour it's clearly present day earth so obviously some time dilation is going on (perhaps 1 year on Marios earth = 5 or so on Tour Earth) p.s. most fans call the parallel Earth tour earth
 
Also SabreWulf from the Sabreman series isn't connected to SabreWulf from Killer Instinct. SabreWulf in Sabreman is some kind of ancient creature iirc, think the nemean lion from Greek mythology. While the SabreWulf in KI was a guy bit by a werewolf. It's just the same name because rare wanted a callback to their previous history, not a shared universe implication.
 
Also... For crossovers and cameos in general Nintendo seems to be mostly against shared universes unfortunately? Like they confirmed in an interview or something awhile back that Rhythm Heaven isn't a part of the Mario universe and the characters that appear in Warioware are just variants (which is sad since they expanded on those characters in Warioware a little bit like Cricket and stuff) this is further seen in other Nintendo series like Kid Icarus where the characters straight up break the 4th wall to say it's not the same universe as Metroid when Pit compares the Komaytos to Metroids. Same with confirming James McCloud from Star Fox isn't the same James McCloud in the F-Zero series. Again really lame but thems the breaks
 
Also, in Mario Kart 8 and Tour we see a Submarine on Mario's planet with a current expedition going on labeled 2014-2015 placing those games sometime in that time frame. And in Warioware 1 the opening says it's 200X (also March according to the in-universe diary on an official website). Meaning the Mario franchises present day probably occurs from 2007-2013 up through Dr Luigi, then MK8 through Tour plus most of the surrounding games in 2014-2015 and then Mario Maker 1 crosses over into 2016 (the tie in comic online has a story set on new years 2016) and then DK Bananza and Mario Kart World (Kart Worlds photo mode has 2025 dates) set years later in 2025. Bananza is weird it might be retconning all of DK in a prequel (this would decanonize GameBoy DK if so.) but the Metro Kingdom City Hall is under construction in Odyssey and is only seen finished in DK Bananza sooooooo yeah Bananza could just be set years later
 
Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I've linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I'll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they're kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I'm personally disregarding that
 
stphylcccs said:
Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I've linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I'll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they're kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I'm personally disregarding that
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Will you add a [Banjo Universe] and [Conker Universe] marker for those games because of what Greg Mayles said?
 
Y
stphylcccs said:
Okay, I got a lot of messages here overnight and TBH a lot of stuff is referenced in that video I've linked at the start of the post. I am probably going to move Banjo-Kazooie up to fit with Diddy Kong Racing, and as much as I hate it I'll probably remove the Rabbids/Rayman games…

About Nintendo and crossovers… yeah, they're kinda just like that and it only really speaks for their franchises and not franchises owned by other companies on this timeline, so I'm personally disregarding that
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Yeah I just personally don't like that video very much, some of the evidence is shoddy and people I know have told me he kinda just doesn't accept counter evidence when brought up to him in comments. The timeline Megatron linked should clear up any misconceptions you have about the game order.
 
Also btw I forgot to mention it, but NES Golf isn't actually Mario, iirc they localized it only in America to claim it was Mario, it's actually an original character called Ossan (who also appears in Captain Rainbow). So you don't have to include that game either
 
stphylcccs said:
The movie is incompatible due to humans being unaware of the Mushroom World. I'd have to look into the show, though. From what I understand, it isn't canon, but I don't think anything contradicts?
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The Movies also can't work because the characters all meet differently obviously. And DK Jr seemingly doesn't exist in that universe. The show probably doesn't work either, it's just like a very weird version of Mario made by the American side of things, it really shouldn't be considered canon it'd be like including the Zelda cartoon in a Zelda timeline or Ruby Spears Mega Man in a Mega Man one
 
stphylcccs said:
Captain N?
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You don't know what Captain N is? It was a cartoon about a gamer being trapped inside "Video Land" a dimension where all NES characters live, he has to fight Mother Brain with the help of Kid Icarus, Simon Belmont from Castlevania and Mega Man. Other characters like DK, Ridley, Eggplant Wizard and King Hippo also all appear as well as a living Gameboy.
 
Elly said:
Will you add a [Banjo Universe] and [Conker Universe] marker for those games because of what Greg Mayles said?
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Honestly, probably not. I usually take Word of God as absolute, though I make a few exceptions. This is clearly stated for legal reasons, so I wouldn't consider it a reliable piece of information. I usually disregard retroactive statements made for legal reasons to retcon franchises, since it's basically just one company going "Well I'm not allowed these characters anymore so... screw them, I guess"
 
stphylcccs said:
Honestly, probably not. I usually take Word of God as absolute, though I make a few exceptions. This is clearly stated for legal reasons, so I wouldn't consider it a reliable piece of information. I usually disregard retroactive statements made for legal reasons to retcon franchises, since it's basically just one company going "Well I'm not allowed these characters anymore so... screw them, I guess"
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Ehhhh, but he said they were Never the same universe even back when Rare was partly owned by Nintendo
 
Elly said:
The Movies also can't work because the characters all meet differently obviously. And DK Jr seemingly doesn't exist in that universe. The show probably doesn't work either, it's just like a very weird version of Mario made by the American side of things, it really shouldn't be considered canon it'd be like including the Zelda cartoon in a Zelda timeline or Ruby Spears Mega Man in a Mega Man one
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Well, the Zelda DIC Cartoon works quite well in the Zelda Timeline, especially if we take them as Zelda/Link from Zelda 1 & 2 (for the latter only the same Link). Gives their relationship a complete arc from Zelda 1 to Zelda Valiant Comics / Captain N (which has to be last, as Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule in that), during which both of them mature. You can even throw in the CDi games I guess, though these feel more like a step back in their relationship due to their placements after Zelda II (as the Tri Force of Wisdom appears).

Zelda & Link are 10
The Legend of Zelda
BS The Legend of Zelda

???
Vermin (Zelda Version)
Zelda (Game & Watch)
Zelda (Game Watch)

Zelda & Link are 15
The Legend of Zelda (TV Series)

Zelda & Link are 16
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Link: The Faces of Evil
Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon
Zelda's Adventure

Zelda & Link are 17
The Legend of Zelda (Valiant Comics)

Zelda & Link are c. 18
Captain N: The Game Master (TV Series)


Reasoning for ages:
Link & Zelda are confirmed to be the same age. In the Zelda I Manual, Link is confirmed to be 10. I've placed the smaller adventures in the 5 year gap after Zelda I, though this could be changed. The back of the box description of the Zelda TV Series confirms that both are 15. Zelda II takes place 6 years after Zelda I, and the CDi games have to take place after Zelda II, as the Tri Force of Wisdom is used im Wand of Gamelon (even though those games feel like a prequel to the DIC Cartoon). In issue 2 of the Valiant Comics, it is mentioned that Zelda was to young to remember someone 16 years ago, so she is very likely 17-18, 17 works better imo. In Captain N (I believe Season 2), Captain N & co travel to Hyrule and meet Zelda / Link, with their voice actors from tge Zelda cartoon returning. It is mentioned that Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule, so her father passed away / is too old. As Zelda's father appeared in the Valiant comics, this has to take place after. Also, Ganon kinda returns in the comics and is mentioned as being defeated in Captain N. The relationship between Link & Zelda matured, though Link is still jealous, so they're likely around 18-19.


Hope that makes sense ^^"
 
Rojinn said:
Well, the Zelda DIC Cartoon works quite well in the Zelda Timeline, especially if we take them as Zelda/Link from Zelda 1 & 2 (for the latter only the same Link). Gives their relationship a complete arc from Zelda 1 to Zelda Valiant Comics / Captain N (which has to be last, as Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule in that), during which both of them mature. You can even throw in the CDi games I guess, though these feel more like a step back in their relationship due to their placements after Zelda II (as the Tri Force of Wisdom appears).

Zelda & Link are 10
The Legend of Zelda
BS The Legend of Zelda
???
Vermin (Zelda Version)
Zelda (Game & Watch)
Zelda (Game Watch)
Zelda & Link are 15
The Legend of Zelda (TV Series)
Zelda & Link are 16
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Link: The Faces of Evil
Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon
Zelda's Adventure
Zelda & Link are 17
The Legend of Zelda (Valiant Comics)
Zelda & Link are c. 18
Captain N: The Game Master (TV Series)


Reasoning for ages:
Link & Zelda are confirmed to be the same age. In the Zelda I Manual, Link is confirmed to be 10. I've placed the smaller adventures in the 5 year gap after Zelda I, though this could be changed. The back of the box description of the Zelda TV Series confirms that both are 15. Zelda II takes place 6 years after Zelda I, and the CDi games have to take place after Zelda II, as the Tri Force of Wisdom is used im Wand of Gamelon (even though those games feel like a prequel to the DIC Cartoon). In issue 2 of the Valiant Comics, it is mentioned that Zelda was to young to remember someone 16 years ago, so she is very likely 17-18, 17 works better imo. In Captain N (I believe Season 2), Captain N & co travel to Hyrule and meet Zelda / Link, with their voice actors from tge Zelda cartoon returning. It is mentioned that Zelda is the ruler of Hyrule, so her father passed away / is too old. As Zelda's father appeared in the Valiant comics, this has to take place after. Also, Ganon kinda returns in the comics and is mentioned as being defeated in Captain N. The relationship between Link & Zelda matured, though Link is still jealous, so they're likely around 18-19.


Hope that makes sense ^^"
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BS Zelda takes place centuries after the NES games. And Ganon dies in Zelda 1 and doesn't come back at all, Zelda 2 is stopping his resurrection. And Ganon was still alive in Captain N just depowered
 
Elly said:
You shouldn't include games set on earth without a [Parallel Earth] marker. Mario takes place on a very different earth, you can see in Odyssey the full globe and the continents are extremely different and there's no real life locations.
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Since I have time, I'm answering everything I can right now. I haven't included any citations yet, just because I don't do that on the simplified timeline (I think I might've for my Pixar one, but that was my first timeline here and is very messy.) I'll include citations on the detailed timeline, for things such as Wario and Bomber-Man, Paper Mario, etc.

As for the alternate universes theory, the main Mario world is clearly not an alternate Earth. While Odyssey shows a full map of the world, it only includes the kingdoms visited in that game, as well as the islands shown in Mario Sunshine. It doesn't include things such as Sarasaland, the DK Isles, etc. On the off-chance that this was a retcon, it would be un-retconned due to more locations outside the Mushroom Kingdom and Odyssey continent(s). Mario & Sonic 2014 specifically states that the Mario and Sonic characters come from their respective "worlds", not "Earths". Sonic is established to be a parallel Earth, hence the universe distinction, though Mario is not directly stated to be a parallel Earth, so it shouldn't be assumed to be. Furthermore, the level of interaction between the Mushroom World and Earth (Bowser taking artefacts from Earth's history, not the Mushroom World's, in Mario's Time Machine, Bowser wanting to melt the icecaps to take over Earth in Mario is Missing!, etc) it can be assumed that the portal connecting them, as shown in the sports games, is intradimensional.
 
stphylcccs said:
Since I have time, I'm answering everything I can right now. I haven't included any citations yet, just because I don't do that on the simplified timeline (I think I might've for my Pixar one, but that was my first timeline here and is very messy.) I'll include citations on the detailed timeline, for things such as Wario and Bomber-Man, Paper Mario, etc.

As for the alternate universes theory, the main Mario world is clearly not an alternate Earth. While Odyssey shows a full map of the world, it only includes the kingdoms visited in that game, as well as the islands shown in Mario Sunshine. It doesn't include things such as Sarasaland, the DK Isles, etc. On the off-chance that this was a retcon, it would be un-retconned due to more locations outside the Mushroom Kingdom and Odyssey continent(s). Mario & Sonic 2014 specifically states that the Mario and Sonic characters come from their respective "worlds", not "Earths". Sonic is established to be a parallel Earth, hence the universe distinction, though Mario is not directly stated to be a parallel Earth, so it shouldn't be assumed to be. Furthermore, the level of interaction between the Mushroom World and Earth (Bowser taking artefacts from Earth's history, not the Mushroom World's, in Mario's Time Machine, Bowser wanting to melt the icecaps to take over Earth in Mario is Missing!, etc) it can be assumed that the portal connecting them, as shown in the sports games, is intradimensional.
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The time frames just don't match up imo it has to be parallel universes with time dilation or else it all falls apart. Also games like Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine probably aren't canon because they weren't published by Nintendo, only licensed, they're not really on the same tier as the actually published games, they're never referenced in other material
 
Elly said:
Ehhhh, but he said they were Never the same universe even back when Rare was partly owned by Nintendo
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They appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, I'd say that's evidence enough. It isn't a Mario Kart situation where Link and Inklings show up, since its actually plausible that Conker and Banjo-Kazooie take place on the Mushroom World.
 
stphylcccs said:
They appeared in Diddy Kong Racing, I'd say that's evidence enough. It isn't a Mario Kart situation where Link and Inklings show up, since its actually plausible that Conker and Banjo-Kazooie take place on the Mushroom World.
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Again years don't really match with Mario's. Banjo takes place in 1998, Tooie in 2000 and N&B in 2008

Mario is 30 in the mid 2010s and is 24/25 in the late 2000s when Donkey Kong Arcade occurs which is way after banjo Kazooie occurs which is after Diddy Kong Racing which has to be after DK Arcade
 
Elly said:
Again years don't really match with Mario's. Banjo takes place in 1998, Tooie in 2000 and N&B in 2008

Mario is 30 in the mid 2010s and is 24/25 in the late 2000s when Donkey Kong Arcade occurs which is way after banjo Kazooie occurs which is after Diddy Kong Racing which has to be after DK Arcade
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Like I understand you want to include all the non-published games and crossover series and stuff, but you have to take a step back and look at how this would work or not with the Mainline series and it's time frame, that needs to be the basis for everything and it needs to make sense or else nothing really works
 
Elly said:
The time frames just don't match up imo it has to be parallel universes with time dilation or else it all falls apart. Also games like Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine probably aren't canon because they weren't published by Nintendo, only licensed, they're not really on the same tier as the actually published games, they're never referenced in other material
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Again, I don't consider legalities a valid way to deduce canonicity. Though, if they were licensed by Nintendo, they at the very least accept those games to exist under the Nintendo and Mario name, so even taking into account legalities those games should be considered canon
 
stphylcccs said:
Again, I don't consider legalities a valid way to deduce canonicity. Though, if they were licensed by Nintendo, they at the very least accept those games to exist under the Nintendo and Mario name, so even taking into account legalities those games should be considered canon
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Nintendo doesn't consider the Zelda CDI games as canon to Zelda and those were also only licensed. I think it's probably the same situation for Mario. But either way if you want to count them you can, I just don't think that they fit in the timeline unless you accept that Earth is a parallel universe to Mario's world that runs on its own separate timeline so these different decades on Earth can go by without it messing up the established 5-6 year time frame that most of the Mario series occurs over
 
Elly said:
Nintendo doesn't consider the Zelda CDI games as canon to Zelda and those were also only licensed. I think it's probably the same situation for Mario. But either way if you want to count them you can, I just don't think that they fit in the timeline unless you accept that Earth is a parallel universe to Mario's world that runs on its own separate timeline so these different decades on Earth can go by without it messing up the established 5-6 year time frame that most of the Mario series occurs over
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Hard dates and ages for characters in the main series of games should take precedence over the less looked over entries of the series that Nintendo had almost nothing to do with.
 
Elly said:
Like I understand you want to include all the non-published games and crossover series and stuff, but you have to take a step back and look at how this would work or not with the Mainline series and it's time frame, that needs to be the basis for everything and it needs to make sense or else nothing really works
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But it does work with the mainline series. Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine don't contradict the timeline in any way. Even then, something shouldn't be disregarded because you can't immediately place it on a timeline. The only other contradiction here is Banjo-Kazooie, I'll consider removing it
 
stphylcccs said:
But it does work with the mainline series. Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine don't contradict the timeline in any way. Even then, something shouldn't be disregarded because you can't immediately place it on a timeline. The only other contradiction here is Banjo-Kazooie, I'll consider removing it
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That's fair, just remember that when they show a year for the regular real world Earth that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same year on Marios earth because the main Mario series mostly happens from 2007-2016 then possibly jumps ahead to 2025. With Mario and Luigi being born in about 1983
 
Elly said:
That's fair, just remember that when they show a year for the regular real world Earth that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same year on Marios earth because the main Mario series mostly happens from 2007-2016 then possibly jumps ahead to 2025. With Mario and Luigi being born in about 1983
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Wasn't there a 2005 date in the manual of Wario Land?
 

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