Gideon Stargrave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 3,395
Reading through this thread, it looks like no one's really discussing the villains, which I think warrant observation. It also ties very nicely into the "Who the **** is Oberon Sexton" line of inquiry. Rather than marking this with spoiler tags, it's probably better for me to just say that this will contain spoilers for anyone who hasn't read every Grant Morrison story ever.
There have been a number of insane annotators and bloggers who have gone into far more detail than I am capable of with the interconnectedness and detail of Morrison's stories at DC. I have some ideas, but they aren't really as comprehensive as certain other fans. Given that Batman and Robin is the extension of Morrison's work on Batman and Final Crisis, which tie directly into his JLA and Seven Soldiers, utilizing ideas established in Animal Man and Batman: Gothic, there is no such thing as a self contained story in this man's work. As such, I'm still speculating on the significance of Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth. But more on that later.
So far in Batman and Robin we've seen Professor Pyg, Jason Todd/The Red Hood, Flamingo, one of Darkseid's Batman soldiers from Final Crisis, hints villainy in the Wayne line, Talia Al Ghul and the enigmatic Domino killer, who may or may not be related to one of the characters listed above. It also looks like we're going to be seeing a bit of Doctor Hurt (possibly with the remaining Club of Villains in tow), and there's still the perpetual question of Oberon Sexton's alignment. But Morrison tends to like clear cut heroes and villains with little shades of gray, so it's safe to assume that he's one or the other. Of course, it's a Batman story, so there's that intrinsic question in discussing the antagonists; what does the Joker have to do with this?
In the Joker prose story from early on in his Batman run, and during RIP, Morrison rewrote the Joker into a deranged lunatic. And it *was* a rewriting, even if 'deranged lunatic' is the only inherently necessary feature of the Joker's many incarnations, it's now what defines him entirely. In RIP he was knocked off of a bridge by Damien and hasn't been seen since. We think. Similarly, Talia Al Ghul is now more of a villain than ever; what, with her eugenics experiments and Ninja Man-Bats. If I'm right, then these retools are linked and given what we know about the Domino killer and the resurgence of Talia's manipulations, I just think I might be.
But allow me to explain.
Take a close look at all of the panels closely involving Oberon Sexton's investigations into the Domino killings across the globe. You'll notice that most of them are former members of Doctor Hurt's Black Glove. The first of them is the mustached fat guy (who probably had a name that I'm forgetting) from RIP; he was the first Black Glove member we saw killed, with his neck snapped by the Joker. He is also the first on Oberon Sexton's list. Next we have Jezebel Jet, killed by Talia's Ninja Man-Bats at the very end of RIP. If you look at Oberon's bulletin board at the beginning B&R#10, he has an issue of Time Magazine with Jezebel on the cover pinned to it, marking the second recorded Domino killing.
So, what does this mean? Well, both the people Talia and the Joker have killed are listed as being victims of the Domino killer. Talia also has a brainwashed Damien attacking Dick Grayson. The most obvious conclusion to draw is that Talia found the Joker after Damien ran him off of a bridge, and repurposed him as her executioner, going after the remaining Black Glove members and villains in Gotham who could threaten her interests in some way. I'm willing to bet that the brainwashing techniques she used on Damien and The Joker will be somehow similar.
This also lends credibility to the idea that Bruce Wayne is Oberon Sexton. If we assume that the Domino Killer is The Joker having his strings pulled by Talia Al Ghul, then it would make a lot of sense for Bruce to be tracking down his greatest enemies in a new disguise, which is what Oberon seems to be doing. There's probably a significance to his name, too, with "Oberon" being the legendary king of the fairies in Medieval mythology and, well, ten minutes researching the word/name "Sexton" brings up all sorts of interesting results. And it's Grant Morrison. Whether you like him or not, he's got a thing for symbolism, and nothing is in his comics by accident.
Another thing about Grant Morrison is that he loves the Silver Age and the Adam West TV show. I'm thinking that what he's doing is putting Batman in a series of more and more elaborate traps to escape from, as was typical of older incarnations of the character. Of course, this is the modern age, so rather than having Batman and Robin tied to an underwater sinking anvil, the traps will be more existential. First, we have the Black Glove crippling him psychologically and burying him alive. And in a display of over-preparedness rivaling Bat-Shark-Repellent-Spray, Batman had created a back-up personality just in case anyone would ever attack his mind. Next, he was imprisoned by Darkseid's minions in an attempt to harness his life's tragedy to drive an army of clones, which Bruce realized and subsequently utilized his memories instead to destroy the army. You know, because he's Batman. And now, with this trend in escalation, he's been unstuck in time, a la Billy Pilgrim. So, did Batman escape "The Death That Is Life" (like Mister Miracle did before him in Seven Soldiers) and contrive a new identity to combat his old enemies? It certainly seems likely to me, although I've read other theories about Sexton's identity that are credible.
Naturally, the idea of Bruce's consciousness time traveling ties into this sticky issue with the Wayne ancestry and Doctor Hurt. Is Hurt Thomas Wayne? Is he one of the *other* Thomas Waynes (or otherwise-named Wayne ancestors)? Is he the literal devil? A metaphorical devil? Mangrove Pierce, like Bruce thought? Is he Bruce himself, either as a manifestation of his mental breakdown during RIP, or a result of his time travel shenanigans? Well, all of these ideas have various elements in the story that qualify them. What seems likely to me, however, will only make sense if you read Batman: Gothic, an old Morrison story. Morrison's old comics have foreshadowed his contemporary story arcs before, and this one dealt with the summoning a Satanic figure. Now, we're told that the "Black sheep" of the Wayne family used the dark arts to resurrect a Bat-demon of some sort. My theory is that this was the demonic Doctor Hurt, a man perpetually plaguing Bruce's life. If this is correct, I think it's safe to assume that Bruce will witness (and likely try unsuccessfully to prevent) the raising of Doc Hurt during his travels through time, and Hurt himself will be a reoccurring antagonist for Bruce during the "Return of Bruce Wayne" story arc, confronting him in every time period he lives through.
Okay, so I think I've just about covered my bases. What do you guys think?
There have been a number of insane annotators and bloggers who have gone into far more detail than I am capable of with the interconnectedness and detail of Morrison's stories at DC. I have some ideas, but they aren't really as comprehensive as certain other fans. Given that Batman and Robin is the extension of Morrison's work on Batman and Final Crisis, which tie directly into his JLA and Seven Soldiers, utilizing ideas established in Animal Man and Batman: Gothic, there is no such thing as a self contained story in this man's work. As such, I'm still speculating on the significance of Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth. But more on that later.
So far in Batman and Robin we've seen Professor Pyg, Jason Todd/The Red Hood, Flamingo, one of Darkseid's Batman soldiers from Final Crisis, hints villainy in the Wayne line, Talia Al Ghul and the enigmatic Domino killer, who may or may not be related to one of the characters listed above. It also looks like we're going to be seeing a bit of Doctor Hurt (possibly with the remaining Club of Villains in tow), and there's still the perpetual question of Oberon Sexton's alignment. But Morrison tends to like clear cut heroes and villains with little shades of gray, so it's safe to assume that he's one or the other. Of course, it's a Batman story, so there's that intrinsic question in discussing the antagonists; what does the Joker have to do with this?
In the Joker prose story from early on in his Batman run, and during RIP, Morrison rewrote the Joker into a deranged lunatic. And it *was* a rewriting, even if 'deranged lunatic' is the only inherently necessary feature of the Joker's many incarnations, it's now what defines him entirely. In RIP he was knocked off of a bridge by Damien and hasn't been seen since. We think. Similarly, Talia Al Ghul is now more of a villain than ever; what, with her eugenics experiments and Ninja Man-Bats. If I'm right, then these retools are linked and given what we know about the Domino killer and the resurgence of Talia's manipulations, I just think I might be.
But allow me to explain.
Take a close look at all of the panels closely involving Oberon Sexton's investigations into the Domino killings across the globe. You'll notice that most of them are former members of Doctor Hurt's Black Glove. The first of them is the mustached fat guy (who probably had a name that I'm forgetting) from RIP; he was the first Black Glove member we saw killed, with his neck snapped by the Joker. He is also the first on Oberon Sexton's list. Next we have Jezebel Jet, killed by Talia's Ninja Man-Bats at the very end of RIP. If you look at Oberon's bulletin board at the beginning B&R#10, he has an issue of Time Magazine with Jezebel on the cover pinned to it, marking the second recorded Domino killing.
So, what does this mean? Well, both the people Talia and the Joker have killed are listed as being victims of the Domino killer. Talia also has a brainwashed Damien attacking Dick Grayson. The most obvious conclusion to draw is that Talia found the Joker after Damien ran him off of a bridge, and repurposed him as her executioner, going after the remaining Black Glove members and villains in Gotham who could threaten her interests in some way. I'm willing to bet that the brainwashing techniques she used on Damien and The Joker will be somehow similar.
This also lends credibility to the idea that Bruce Wayne is Oberon Sexton. If we assume that the Domino Killer is The Joker having his strings pulled by Talia Al Ghul, then it would make a lot of sense for Bruce to be tracking down his greatest enemies in a new disguise, which is what Oberon seems to be doing. There's probably a significance to his name, too, with "Oberon" being the legendary king of the fairies in Medieval mythology and, well, ten minutes researching the word/name "Sexton" brings up all sorts of interesting results. And it's Grant Morrison. Whether you like him or not, he's got a thing for symbolism, and nothing is in his comics by accident.
Another thing about Grant Morrison is that he loves the Silver Age and the Adam West TV show. I'm thinking that what he's doing is putting Batman in a series of more and more elaborate traps to escape from, as was typical of older incarnations of the character. Of course, this is the modern age, so rather than having Batman and Robin tied to an underwater sinking anvil, the traps will be more existential. First, we have the Black Glove crippling him psychologically and burying him alive. And in a display of over-preparedness rivaling Bat-Shark-Repellent-Spray, Batman had created a back-up personality just in case anyone would ever attack his mind. Next, he was imprisoned by Darkseid's minions in an attempt to harness his life's tragedy to drive an army of clones, which Bruce realized and subsequently utilized his memories instead to destroy the army. You know, because he's Batman. And now, with this trend in escalation, he's been unstuck in time, a la Billy Pilgrim. So, did Batman escape "The Death That Is Life" (like Mister Miracle did before him in Seven Soldiers) and contrive a new identity to combat his old enemies? It certainly seems likely to me, although I've read other theories about Sexton's identity that are credible.
Naturally, the idea of Bruce's consciousness time traveling ties into this sticky issue with the Wayne ancestry and Doctor Hurt. Is Hurt Thomas Wayne? Is he one of the *other* Thomas Waynes (or otherwise-named Wayne ancestors)? Is he the literal devil? A metaphorical devil? Mangrove Pierce, like Bruce thought? Is he Bruce himself, either as a manifestation of his mental breakdown during RIP, or a result of his time travel shenanigans? Well, all of these ideas have various elements in the story that qualify them. What seems likely to me, however, will only make sense if you read Batman: Gothic, an old Morrison story. Morrison's old comics have foreshadowed his contemporary story arcs before, and this one dealt with the summoning a Satanic figure. Now, we're told that the "Black sheep" of the Wayne family used the dark arts to resurrect a Bat-demon of some sort. My theory is that this was the demonic Doctor Hurt, a man perpetually plaguing Bruce's life. If this is correct, I think it's safe to assume that Bruce will witness (and likely try unsuccessfully to prevent) the raising of Doc Hurt during his travels through time, and Hurt himself will be a reoccurring antagonist for Bruce during the "Return of Bruce Wayne" story arc, confronting him in every time period he lives through.
Okay, so I think I've just about covered my bases. What do you guys think?
I'm not willing to let him off the hook. I could see some design sensibilities between, say, Blue Velvet and the first arc of B&R, but beyond that, I don't really buy it. But yeah. The latter half of his Batman arc is VERY Lynchian, particularly in terms of his split reality films (Muholland Dr., Lost Highway, Inland Empire).
