Civil War series discussion (spoilers)

[Victor Von Doom]

While having the Punisher come back was cool....and having Spiderman try to jump out the window but being splattered on it was funny........but the best part of the book was Danny's comment to Tony at the end.

But---correct me if I'm wrong---isn't Civil War 7 issues? I mean we're already 5 issues in and basically it's a stalemate? I really thought this would be the issue that turns the tides but it was more of the same.

I don't know---I just wasn't impressed too much with this issue.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I don't get the "The writer's are portraying the anti-reg as good guys/pro-reg bad guys". When I read it, I was honestly scared of Captain America. He's over his head and desperate and putting his friends in harm's way. It's fine to fight for a believe but he's lost sight of a lot of things. And enlisting The Thunderbolts = Enlisting Frank Castle. I think the writer's are doing a good job with portraying both sides as very flawed.

 

[Hibiki]

I don't get the "The writer's are portraying the anti-reg as good guys/pro-reg bad guys". When I read it, I was honestly scared of Captain America. He's over his head and desperate and putting his friends in harm's way. It's fine to fight for a believe but he's lost sight of a lot of things. And enlisting The Thunderbolts = Enlisting Frank Castle. I think the writer's are doing a good job with portraying both sides as very flawed.

Agreed. 8)

 

[Ultimate MJ]

I don't get the "The writer's are portraying the anti-reg as good guys/pro-reg bad guys". When I read it, I was honestly scared of Captain America. He's over his head and desperate and putting his friends in harm's way. It's fine to fight for a believe but he's lost sight of a lot of things. And enlisting The Thunderbolts = Enlisting Frank Castle. I think the writer's are doing a good job with portraying both sides as very flawed.

Yeah, that was my only comment to your review - That the Pro Reg side finally looks good. Up until now we havent really gotten to sympathize with Tony, hes been too focused. But this issue we see Tonys doubts and fear, and I finally realized he does have good motivations. And Cap's devotion is downright scary, he doesn't seem to care about anything other than winning and revenge.

And although I dont think that the Thunderbolts are quite analagous to the Punisher, still its a good point. Both sides are sinking to the level of working with thugs and murderers.

But---correct me if I'm wrong---isn't Civil War 7 issues? I mean we're already 5 issues in and basically it's a stalemate? I really thought this would be the issue that turns the tides but it was more of the same.

I was thinking the same thing. Millars conclusions usually feel rushed and slightly unfulfilling, and I'm sort of expecting the same thing here. He has brought up so much in these 5 issues that I just don't see any way that by issue 7 Cap and Tony are going to shake hands and be friends.

There is going to be a lot of fallout in the related titles though, so maybe Millar is going to give us a HOM style conclusion.. i.e. not a conclusion at all, just a marketing gimmick.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

You guys actually think there's gonna be a conclusion here? Conclusions mean story's over and everything goes back to the way it was. Sorry if you didn't like HoM but this is probably how CW ends up. No end and these loose ends will be dealt throughout the MU in the next year.

 

[omega234]

It is all "Pro-Reg Bad", "Anti-Reg Good".

Yes and no. Just because one is pro-registration does not make them right and just because one is anti-registration does not make them wrong and vice versa.

> Endorsing vigilantes (answerable to NO ONE).... does that only apply to superpowered people? What if Joe down the block wants to put on a ski mask and beat some corner thug to death with a bat? Cap down with that?
> Endorsing the idea that if you oppose a law, the way to oppose it is not politically, but violently...
> Endorsing the idea that anyone who puts on a mask has the right to do whatever he or she wants, in the pursuit of his/her personal view of "justice", to include warrantless searches, breaking and entering, obtaining evidence/confessions through violence, beatings, threats, etc....
> Endorsing the idea that people with superpowers (the equivalent of heavy weaponry, tanks, bazookas, flamethrowers, WMDs, etc) have a right to use them in any setting, causing collateral damage and injuries galore, with NO training, NO oversight, and NO personal responsibility.

They are willing to risk this because to them, the risk is better than the alternative. Both sides are losing members because both sides are starting to see that either side is not all bad. They're just not all good either. Spider-man was down with the registration act, but he wasn't down with the fact that they cloned Thor to be used as a weapon that went against it's programming and killed Goliath or putting unregistered captives into a prison built in the negative zone for life. Cable, Yellowjacket and that other lady, they wanted to be good guys and fight real villains, not the cops and other superheroes. Yellowjacket figured Goliath was dead the second he thought he was bigger than the law. Iron Man and Captain America represent the extreme as well as the conviction of either side. Put the people in between....well they're not so sure.

 

[Ultimate MJ]

Hmmm.. The only way I can see this getting resolved is if the Judas comment makes IM realize what hes done, and if working with the Punisher makes Cap realize what hes doing.

The whole Tigra taking a picture of Punisher with Caps Avengers has to come into play soon.. I mean, Cap hasnt agreed to let Punisher on the team, but IM's avengers are gonna assume they are working together.

And MWoF: I get what you are saying, but I still hope there is at least some conclusion here. Dissasembled was an arc designed to lead into other crossovers, but it had some sort of resolution, unlike HoM (which I like by the way). I do hope to see a lot of the conflict spill over into all the titles after CW (leading up to world war hulk), but I still feel the 7-issue standalone series should be able to stand on its own with a beggining, middle, and conclusion.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I think the writer's are doing a good job with portraying both sides as very flawed.

Agreed.

You guys actually think there's gonna be a conclusion here? Conclusions mean story's over and everything goes back to the way it was. Sorry if you didn't like HoM but this is probably how CW ends up. No end and these loose ends will be dealt throughout the MU in the next year.

I'm not looking for a flatout conclusion....but something to let me know the war is ended. The reprecussions will no doubtedly be felt thru the MU. But some kinda wrap-up event similar to the "no more mutants" event in HoM.

 

[Hibiki]

You guys actually think there's gonna be a conclusion here? Conclusions mean story's over and everything goes back to the way it was. Sorry if you didn't like HoM but this is probably how CW ends up. No end and these loose ends will be dealt throughout the MU in the next year.

Again, agreed. I think the NA, IIM, Spiderman and also MightyA will be some of the main titles dealing with the superhero act. But I think they all will to some extent, just some more than others.

Hmmm.. The only way I can see this getting resolved is if the Judas comment makes IM realize what hes done, and if working with the Punisher makes Cap realize what hes doing.

The whole Tigra taking a picture of Punisher with Caps Avengers has to come into play soon.. I mean, Cap hasnt agreed to let Punisher on the team, but IM's avengers are gonna assume they are working together.

And MWoF: I get what you are saying, but I still hope there is at least some conclusion here. Dissasembled was an arc designed to lead into other crossovers, but it had some sort of resolution, unlike HoM (which I like by the way). I do hope to see a lot of the conflict spill over into all the titles after CW (leading up to world war hulk), but I still feel the 7-issue standalone series should be able to stand on its own with a beggining, middle, and conclusion.

Yeah, i could see A daily Bugle headline showing Cap and Punisher in the same room with spiderman in the background with a headline saying Terrorist and Murderer aiding Webbed menace. It the situation could even end up being that after Pun helps them in to Baxter building, they turn Pun over to the authorities.

Agreed.



I'm not looking for a flatout conclusion....but something to let me know the war is ended. The reprecussions will no doubtedly be felt thru the MU. But some kinda wrap-up event similar to the "no more mutants" event in HoM.

It'll be iron Man telling Cap, "No more metahumans Cappy."

 

[PuertoRock33]

Great issue. I agree it is moving a bit slow. Just wish that this issue was a lil longer. Hope the last two are 48pgs. That would be nice.

Punisher showing up was great except that pretty much everyone knew it was gonna happen. The Judas line was also good. It really fit with everything. Did anyone notice the traitor among the anit- reg team? Holding the cell phone? Who was that? Also Daredevil was there with them on the pg then the next pg they are walking him into the Negative zone... Whats up with that?

 

[Hibiki]

Great issue. I agree it is moving a bit slow. Just wish that this issue was a lil longer. Hope the last two are 48pgs. That would be nice.

Punisher showing up was great except that pretty much everyone knew it was gonna happen. The Judas line was also good. Did anyone notice the traitor among the anit- reg team? Holding the cell phone? Who was that? Also Daredevil was there with them on the pg then the next pg they are walking him into the Negative zone... Whats up with that?

*gasps*

Maybe MWoF dream will come true. And technically, DD has no powers that could be nullified right? My question would be, if Rand was the DD that was caught, and there was no nullifier on him, couldn't he just punch his way out and escape? Oh well, not that big a deal but still.

 

[The Overlord]

I don't get the "The writer's are portraying the anti-reg as good guys/pro-reg bad guys". When I read it, I was honestly scared of Captain America. He's over his head and desperate and putting his friends in harm's way. It's fine to fight for a believe but he's lost sight of a lot of things. And enlisting The Thunderbolts = Enlisting Frank Castle. I think the writer's are doing a good job with portraying both sides as very flawed.

Punisher may be a killer, but at least he only kills the scum of the earth (did anyone feel bad for those slavers Punisher killed in the Max book?) The Thunderbolts have guys like Bullseye and Green Goblin working for them, guys who kill innocent people for kicks, how are they comparable? How is killing Karen Page or Gwen Stacey equal to killing some slave traders?

I think the problem is the pro reg side has way to much trust in SHEILD, which has shown itself it be some what corrupt in the past, especially when Nick Fury is not in charge. Considering Director Hill's attitude it wouldn't surprise me if she was working for a super villain at this point.

 

[The Overlord]

Great issue. I agree it is moving a bit slow. Just wish that this issue was a lil longer. Hope the last two are 48pgs. That would be nice.

Punisher showing up was great except that pretty much everyone knew it was gonna happen. The Judas line was also good. It really fit with everything. Did anyone notice the traitor among the anit- reg team? Holding the cell phone? Who was that? Also Daredevil was there with them on the pg then the next pg they are walking him into the Negative zone... Whats up with that?

I believe Tigra is the one with the cell phone.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

And enlisting The Thunderbolts = Enlisting Frank Castle.

No way. You can't compare Venom, Bullseye, Green goblin and other with Frank. Ok he kill his enemies, but they deserve it. He lives ina a constant war against crime, for him, he is as a soldier killing someone that could kill him or someone else. There should even be citizens that like his way, you ever watched Boondock Saints? I was hoped they could do something like that to the Punisher (last part of the movie, the interviews where poeple are divided saying if they like the bad guys dying.)
I hope Cap kicks Tigra ***. That would be awesome.
Did they show how they catch Daredevil? Maybe he could have been trying to get into the prison so he could do a prison break....

 

[Issued]

Even Iron Fist isn't capable of doing that, dude. But if anything like this happens , i am dropping whole Marvel comics , and i will start loving the Green Lantern!!!

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

Even Iron Fist isn't capable of doing that, dude. But if anything like this happens , i am dropping whole Marvel comics , and i will start loving the Green Lantern!!!

It seems that each cell is custom made for the hero that is there. Perhaps the Iron Fist will be of use. He has to get out of there some way.

 

[ProjectX2]

That's true. They could have designed the cell for Daredevil, and then Danny just uses his iron fist to break out, or something. I don't think that will happen, but it would be cool to see.

Millar has said that the next issue will ship in mid December, and will begin with Hulkling on his Arizona mission, which involves Hank Pym and one of his new superteams. The final issue will ship in late January, and will be 28 pages long.

 

[Issued]

That's true. They could have designed the cell for Daredevil, and then Danny just uses his iron fist to break out, or something. I don't think that will happen, but it would be cool to see.

Millar has said that the next issue will ship in mid December, and will begin with Hulkling on his Arizona mission, which involves Hank Pym and one of his new superteams. The final issue will ship in late January, and will be 28 pages long.

I really don't think Danny Rand could fool the pro-reg side , well even if he does , a massive breakout from "42" would be too hard.since its pretty heavy guarded (Amazing Spider-Man #535). even spider-man couldn't dodge those bullets with his "Ultimate Agility" , i dont think Danny Rand would stand a chance.

 

[Hibiki]

I really don't think Danny Rand could fool the pro-reg side , well even if he does , a massive breakout from "42" would be too hard.since its pretty heavy guarded (Amazing Spider-Man #535). even spider-man couldn't dodge those bullets with his "Ultimate Agility" , i dont think Danny Rand would stand a chance.

Well, how would all these guy fair against everyone breaking out of prison. Sure they're trained but when the **** hits the fan right in front of you, it's a whole different story.

 

[TwilightEL]

Well, how would all these guy fair against everyone breaking out of prison. Sure they're trained but when the **** hits the fan right in front of you, it's a whole different story.

I agree with Hibiki. At least some of the people in that prison are in a cell they can break out of, they're just too hopeless to try it. And if one person makes it out, every prisoner in there is going to just go crazy all at once. If someone makes it out of their cell, they're going to free the others. The guards' own weapons might cause damage that would let people out--look at what happened to Spider-Man in this issue. Of course, they'll still be stuck in the Negative Zone, which makes it kind of a moot point.

I was thinking the other day about how Reed is basically just going along with all of this stuff, and how he was acting in Frontline--does anybody else thing he's got something planned? Last issue, Sue told him in the letter that she wanted him to use his brain to end the war. It seems to me now that he's looking less for a way to win, and more for an end to the fighting. I haven't read much Fantastic Four, but it strikes me as the kind of thing he might do, rather than just limply go along with everything or rebel outright.

Norman Osborn is out of prison. He has all his toys back. The few people who know that he's out think he's under control and aren't watching him closely. And Spider-Man's family are wandering around, not under anyone's protection.